another opti-coat thread. why does my roof bead different?

[timaishu]

So I opticoated my roof two months ago. And It wasnt beading right compared to my hood. Chris thought that maybe it didnt bond right. So I repolished and went way over the top in preperation. Several IPA wipedowns, washes, apc, tarminator.

Anyways. I opticoated more of my car. And I sprayed it down and it still beads wierd. What is going on here?

As you can see. My hood, fender, and both front doors bead nicely. But my roof doesnt.

 

[BMW]

Subscribing to this one...

 

[Da Fats]

application failure?

 

[Dr Oldz]

Was it from the same container or was it a different container. The reason I ask is that maybe it is a bad batch???

 

[ShaunD]

What were your polishing procedures and products for the roof? And what was the last thing you did to prep the roof?

 

[gmck]

And I sprayed it down and it still beads wierd.

More like it doesn’t bead at all.

Was that photo taken immediately after it cured or was it taken a couple of days later when the vehicle had a film of dirt on it. Quite often with an Opti-Coated surface you’ll notice less beading until after the final rinse after you have cleaned your vehicle. Once the surface is clean, then the original beading is returned. That doesn’t appear to be the case here because with that theory your other horizontal surfaces would be the same and your bonnet looks reasonable.

Was the original condition of the paint on the roof any different to the rest of the vehicle?

What was your process? What compounds/polishes did you use?

Was it the same process for the rest of the vehicle?

After final polishing would you say that the roof was any different to the rest of the vehicle?

Were there any high spots on the roof after the OC application that you then removed? If so what polish and pad did you use to remove them.

What was the total amount of OC used on the paint surfaces?

How much experience with OC do you have? How many vehicles have you OC'd?

 

[timaishu]

application failure?

I guess I should give more of a background. Two months ago, I applied opti-coat to my roof. I washed it a few times. and Used OPC to remove bugs. I noticed something was wrong when I coated my hood and my hood beaded but not my roof. I talked to Chris and he thought that maybe the polishing oils from M205 were not all removed and that it caused the OC to not bond. So I re-applied it with the step below.

This is what my roof looked liked last time. I have since re-did the application of the OC. And as you can see, this picture looks just like my current one.

Was it from the same container or was it a different container. The reason I ask is that maybe it is a bad batch???

Same syringe.

What were your polishing procedures and products for the roof? And what was the last thing you did to prep the roof?

As I mentioned above. I re-did the roof a second time because of picture above. So what I did was I washed the car with tw ice mixed with OPC. I rinsed it off and dried it. I then sprayed it down with OPC and let it dwell for 5 minutes. Rinsed that off and dried. I then polished with a white pad and optiumum finish or polishII(i cant remember which). I then buffed it off. Did an IPA wipe down. Tarminator. Then washed the roof again with the soap with OPC mix. A second IPA wipedown. And then I applied the OC. As you can see, I went way overboard in prep to make sure the surface was spotless. And the results are still the same crappy roof.

More like it doesn’t bead at all.

Was that photo taken immediately after it cured or was it taken a couple of days later when the vehicle had a film of dirt on it. Quite often with an Opti-Coated surface you’ll notice less beading until after the final rinse after you have cleaned your vehicle. Once the surface is clean, then the original beading is returned. That doesn’t appear to be the case here because with that theory your other horizontal surfaces would be the same and your bonnet looks reasonable.

The photo was taken today, before I washed my car.

Was the original condition of the paint on the roof any different to the rest of the vehicle?

The condition is the same other than the fact that the clearcoat is beginning to fail. But it is also beginning to fail on my hood. And as you can see, it beads fine.

What was your process? What compounds/polishes did you use?

The very first time I did it, as I mentioned above. I polished with M205. When I re-did it a month later. I used optimum polishes(polish II and finish polish)

Was it the same process for the rest of the vehicle?

Exactly the same. Same IPA wipe downs. Same APC washes.

After final polishing would you say that the roof was any different to the rest of the vehicle?

Nope.

Were there any high spots on the roof after the OC application that you then removed? If so what polish and pad did you use to remove them.

No highspots.

What was the total amount of OC used on the paint surfaces?

All my panels have two layers. Including the panels that bead and the roof. I dont remember how many CC's. But I started by making and X on the foam applicator. Once it began to grab and I could see that I wasnt leaving OC behind, I added several drops and kept going.

How much experience with OC do you have? How many vehicles have you OC'd?

Ive' only done my car. First time was my roof. Second time my hood. Every panel I have done has been perfect. Just my roof is giving me issues. I will say it again incase it was missed. This is my roof, after having re-applied the OC a SECOND time. The first time looked exactly the same as it does now

 

[Chris Thomas]

We know the OC from that batch/syringe works because it works on the rest of the vehicle. That leaves application and roof paint condition. Because you have properly applied to the rest of the vehicle and, if anything, more than prepped the roof this second time...it can only be the paint. I know that OC's beading can act differently based on how smooth the paint is, whether or not there are stil contaminants, and even which direction you wipe the coating on. Because you have NO beading to speak of, it looks like their may be overspray or some kind of bonded contamination still there. Can you confirm this with a baggie test and did you originally clay before polishing?

 

[timaishu]

There was overspray on the roof from when I clear coated a fender awhile back. I know that for a fact as I didnt cover it thinking it would be fine. My doors and hood however, were completely covered in plastic.

I agressively clayed the roof surface with purple clay for like 15-20 minutes but I could not get it butterly smooth. The clay was gliding over the surface and I couldnt feel or hear it grabbing anything. But everytime I did the baggy test, it failed because I could still feel stuff. So I polished and applied.

For the record too, I have clay all the surfaces, including those that bead. But none of them are perfectly smooth either. BUT, they for sure do not have clearcoat overspray, just some other bonded contaminents. I dont know whats on my paint, but I can still feel some stuff and I cannot get it off. Unless I clayed for an hour straight on one panel then maybe. But thats rediculous.

EDIT: I just did the baggy test. I did it on a spot on the roof and fender. Honestly, I couldnt tell much of a difference. Strangely, there was a lot of friction on both panels. It didnt really slide(property of the OC?) And as far as contaminents, its really a crapshoot. They felt so similar, I could maybe say the roof felt more rough. But it wasn't so different that it would be obvious.

What should I do?

 

[Rsurfer]

Why not clay the hell out of a 2' X 2' section, IPA and apply OC to that one section only. Or better yet polish that section.

There was overspray on the roof from when I clear coated a fender awhile back. I know that for a fact as I didnt cover it thinking it would be fine. My doors and hood however, were completely covered in plastic.

I agressively clayed the roof surface with purple clay for like 15-20 minutes but I could not get it butterly smooth. The clay was gliding over the surface and I couldnt feel or hear it grabbing anything. But everytime I did the baggy test, it failed because I could still feel stuff. So I polished and applied.

For the record too, I have clay all the surfaces, including those that bead. But none of them are perfectly smooth either. BUT, they for sure do not have clearcoat overspray, just some other bonded contaminents. I dont know whats on my paint, but I can still feel some stuff and I cannot get it off. Unless I clayed for an hour straight on one panel then maybe. But thats rediculous.

EDIT: I just did the baggy test. I did it on a spot on the roof and fender. Honestly, I couldnt tell much of a difference. Strangely, there was a lot of friction on both panels. It didnt really slide(property of the OC?) And as far as contaminents, its really a crapshoot. They felt so similar, I could maybe say the roof felt more rough. But it wasn't so different that it would be obvious.

What should I do?

 

[timaishu]

Do you mean as in to test to see if that will fix the problem?

Only thing that worries me though is my roofs clearcoat, its failing. The whole reason I decided to undertake opti-coating was to see if it could slow down its progression. But it seems to me, I am making it progress even faster! Clay polishing, all these chemicals, then doing it a second time. It looks alot worse now in the 2 months since I started compared to the full year when I first noticed to me trying to do something about it.

 

[snowking724]

Which clay did you use? Maybe try some Megs aggressive or an equivalent.

 

[Blackthorn One]

What about wet sanding the roof? That should get it smooth. If you have overspray, it might be the only solution.

 

[timaishu]

Which clay did you use? Maybe try some Megs aggressive or an equivalent.

I used this.

Auto Detail Clay

What about wet sanding the roof? That should get it smooth. If you have overspray, it might be the only solution.

Bad idea. That would require me to polish the roof even more. With my clearcoat failing. That sounds like it would be a disaster.

This wouldnt bother as much as it does if it werent for the fact that I am trying to stop my clear from failing anymore than it has. Now I am probably going to have to clay a second time. And polish a third. I wont even be suprised if my clearcoat just straight up rips off. Its getting worse quick because I keep messing with it.

Ugh.

 

[snowking724]

A specifically labeled aggressive clay might be worth a shot, and maybe leave the polishing out of the equation this time since you said the CC is already failing. Also, try claying with APC as your lube, gives it some extra bite.

 

[timaishu]

A specifically labeled aggressive clay might be worth a shot, and maybe leave the polishing out of the equation this time since you said the CC is already failing. Also, try claying with APC as your lube, gives it some extra bite.

I suppose I could try. I thought purple clay was the most aggressive though?

Im going to wait till chris responds again to see what he thinks.

 

[rwright]

Sounds like it's time to cough up the change for a paint job. Once the new paint cures then apply OC/OG and never worry again.

 

[Blackthorn One]

I used this.

Auto Detail Clay



Bad idea. That would require me to polish the roof even more. With my clearcoat failing. That sounds like it would be a disaster.

This wouldnt bother as much as it does if it werent for the fact that I am trying to stop my clear from failing anymore than it has. Now I am probably going to have to clay a second time. And polish a third. I wont even be suprised if my clearcoat just straight up rips off. Its getting worse quick because I keep messing with it.

Ugh.

I thought that maybe using 3000 with a stiff rubber pad might get it flatter. I thought that roughness, ie raised pieces of paint sticking up was the problem. You would just try to sand the high spots, just the overspray, but if the paint is as thin as you say....
It's just that you said you used polish already, and it seems to me that no polish on a soft pad will concentrate enough cutting just on the high spots as wetsanding would.

Maybe some super aggressive clay would work.
If you REALLY made all of the overspray disappear with just polish, I would think that even more clearcoat would be lost.
Maybe you should think about just living with this then.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

Maybe you should think about just living with this then.

+1

 

[timaishu]

I thought that maybe using 3000 with a stiff rubber pad might get it flatter. I thought that roughness, ie raised pieces of paint sticking up was the problem. You would just try to sand the high spots, just the overspray, but if the paint is as thin as you say....
It's just that you said you used polish already, and it seems to me that no polish on a soft pad will concentrate enough cutting just on the high spots as wetsanding would. If you REALLY made all of the overspray disappear with just polish, I would think that even more clearcoat would be lost.
Maybe you should think about just living with this then.

Thing is, if the 3000grit sanding pad touches the paint, it will leave the paint foggy requiring me to polish out the sanding scratches forcing me to remove even more paint.

I almost feel like its a lost cause. I'll probably just leave it as is and hope for the best. Im just gonna tell myself that maybe the OC is there, but the overspray is making it not bead. Yeah thats it.

All my other panels are co-operating, so I am working on getting them coated. All I have left is the two rear doors and rear fenders.