Any Major Differences b/t these hybrid coatings?

[KJW Detailing]

Reading over Opti Coat write up on ag, I've developed a few questions regarding its durability. You suggest the use of ironx foam formula. Does the chemical properties that break down the iron deposits, also break down the Opti coat in any way? I would assume that opti coat will prevent any deposits from contacting the paints true cc. Not saying that I would do this personally, but other individuals, may take their cars to a car wash. How is Opti coats durability affected from caustic chemicals typically found at car washes?

 

[FUNX650]

You suggest the use of ironx foam formula. Does the chemical properties that break down the iron deposits, also break down the Opti coat in any way? I would assume that opti coat will prevent any deposits from contacting the paints true cc.

OptiCoat is a ceramic clear coat originating from USA. The main component is SiC. The average coating thickness is 1-2 um and the durability is unlimited.

A single layer of Optimum Clear Coating measures approximately 2 microns in thickness.

Conversely...
-I would assume that if Optimum's-Coatings, with a film-layer-'thickness' of only: ~1-2 microns thick...

Were able to prevent deposits, iron or otherwise, from contacting the vehicle's CC paint film-layer...
Then...Not too much debris...of any kind...has entered/penetrated into said Opti-Coatings.

-Use of IronX's foam formula, then, IMO...
Would be to assist in ones 'proper car-washing process(es)'.

But then again...
So would most car-wash shampoos---with a degreaser where deemed necessary.

JMO...



Bob

 

[cmwsdw@gmail]

Thanks for the info to my question Bob. Seems like OC should work on SS paint judging by that Q&A with Cory and Dr G but they won't say for sure due to lack of testing. The only thing that scares me is the paint becoming a streaky mess like it has with some of the sealants I've tried(zaino z2). Guess Ill never know till I try tho.

 

[FUNX650]

Thanks for the info to my question Bob.

^^^Glad to be able to provide the info^^^

Seems like OC should work on SS paint judging by that Q&A with Cory and Dr G but they won't say for sure due to lack of testing. The only thing that scares me is the paint becoming a streaky mess like it has with some of the sealants I've tried(zaino z2). Guess Ill never know till I try tho.

Like you previously alluded to:

If O-C doesn't work out to your satisfication...
You can polish it off and spray a couple coats of CC...
And then, if you so desire, give O-C another shot.



Bob

 

[gtechrob]

Sorry, I'm late to the conversation. I've just arrived back home from SEMA. To clarify regarding bonding, I have compared covalent bonds to hydrogen bonds when describing the difference between the way Optimum Coatings bond vs. traditional products (waxes and sealants) or nano sealants.

When our product was released alongside other "coatings", I tried to make the distinction that our product is a true coating (like paint is a coating) while nano sealants are merely extended life sealants and only coatings in that they cover the paintwork for a time. Nano sealants have more points of bonding considering the molecule size, but still form a weak bond that will be broken over time and with exposure to various chemicals. That is why some "coatings" recommend or require the use of a booster product in order to maintain the initial attributes and also why multiple applications are recommended initially...to thicken the film build.



Like Rob, there's only so much we will divulge regarding composition and sequence...but we try to help inform potential customers as best we can. Here are a few comparative stats for you to consider:

PTFE is a synthetic wax originating from the UK. The main component is PTFE. Average coating thickness is .02 um and durability is usually 4-5 months.

GlassPlexin is a synthetic wax originating from USA. The main component is GlassPlexin. The average coating thickness is .02 um and durability is usually 6-12 months.

Nano Pro is a glass coating originating from Germany. The main component is SiO2. The average coating thickness is .02-1 um and the durability is around 12-18 months.

Ceramic Quartz is a glass coating originating from Japan. The main component is SiO2. The average coating thickness is .5-1.5 um and the durability is around 12-18 months.

OptiCoat is a ceramic clear coat originating from USA. The main component is SiC. The average coating thickness is 1-2 um and the durability is unlimited.

All of these technologies improve gloss, scratch resistance, and chemical resistance...but the combination of our resin and bonding process will yield a result in which the attributes will not fall away or weaken over time or with exposure. Opti-Coat has better chemical resistance, scratch & mar resistance, and release properties than any automotive paint coating in use. It provides permanent protection for all modern factory paints and can also be used to protect metal and hard plastic surfaces.

A single layer of Optimum Clear Coating measures approximately 2 microns in thickness. When compared to other paint protection products, Opti-Coat is more than 100 times thicker, with tests showing a wax coating measuring less than 0.02 microns.
This allows Opti-Coat to effectively absorb damage that would otherwise affect the factory paint layers. Swirl marks and light scratches are not only decreased by the harder Optimum Ceramic Coating, the factory paint is protected and preserved.
Opti-Coat is completely resistant to acidic environmental substances such as bird droppings. Unlike your factory clear coating that can be permanently damaged, Opti-Coat will not etch or dissolve when in contact with these substances, and a clean, glossy clear coating is maintained.

We are so confident of our statements, that we recently announced at SEMA 2012 we will be offering a optional lifetime warranty along with OptiCoat Pro installations on new vehicles when applied by our authorized installers. Used vehicles may also partake of a warranty, but it wil be limited to 5 years coverage simply because of the unknown exposures/processes the car may have endured.

couple of points on this post

first - the term nano is a description of scale. lumping all coatings that are based on nanochemistry together is like saying that because cars have four wheels they are all the same.

second - are you sure you mean 2 microns film build. if it takes around 3 gallons of paint (primer/colour/clear) to paint a car which will have around 100 microns when finished - I don't get how 20cc of your product will give 2microns of film build.

 

[Waxy]

How do you do paint/chip repair with a permanent coating on the paint?

 

[FUNX650]

How do you do paint/chip repair with a permanent coating on the paint?

IMO...

Most remediation of paint/chip-repairs is successfully accomplished by proper-prepping steps...
One of which is removal of all substances, including LSP's, from/within the paint/chip areas.

Once all of a paint/chip-repair has been made, and after the customary cure-time of said repair,
it is advisable to seal/protect that paint/chip repaired area with an LSP.

I have no doubts that this method of paint/chip-repair is also applicable to Optimum's-Coatings as well.

Of course there may be:
"Doubting Thomas-es" that will say that my above:
No-doubt-about-it methods regarding: paint/chip-repair scenarios...is completely bass-ackwards



Bob

 

[Waxy]

IMO...

Most remediation of paint/chip-repairs is successfully accomplished by proper-prepping steps...
One of which is removal of all substances, including LSP's, from/within the paint/chip areas.

Once all of a paint/chip-repair has been made, and after the customary cure-time of said repair,
it is advisable to seal/protect that paint/chip repaired area with an LSP.

I have no doubts that this method of paint/chip-repair is also applicable to Optimum's-Coatings as well.

Of course there may be:
"Doubting Thomas-es" that will say that my above:
No-doubt-about-it methods regarding: paint/chip-repair scenarios...is completely bass-ackwards



Bob

Yes, let me rephrase: How do you remove permanent coating to do paint/chip repair?

 

[y8s]

second - are you sure you mean 2 microns film build. if it takes around 3 gallons of paint (primer/colour/clear) to paint a car which will have around 100 microns when finished - I don't get how 20cc of your product will give 2microns of film build.

The surface area (minus the bottom since we don't want to coat that) of a 20 foot shipping container is roughly 600 square feet. a 2 micron film over that area is about 115 millilitres (cc) or just under 4 fluid oz.

Plus whatever evaporates upon application. No idea what the solvent ratio is for automotive paints or the products in question but it seems like it should be able to cover an average car with 20 cc.

 

[Old Tiger]

Yes, let me rephrase: How do you remove permanent coating to do paint/chip repair?

Use a polish or in worst case, a compound. Use CarPro Eraser or similar to remove all residue. Hand application works for me.

 

[FUNX650]

How do you do paint/chip repair with a permanent coating on the paint?

...proper-prepping...
...removal of all substances...

Yes, let me rephrase: How do you remove permanent coating to do paint/chip repair?

Use a polish or in worst case, a compound. Use CarPro Eraser or similar to remove all residue. Hand application works for me.

^^^:iagree:^^^

@Waxy:

-Albeit that Old Tiger's above response was what I was alluding to when I previously said:
"proper-prepping/removal of all substances"...

-I do apologize for my misunderstanding the intent of your original question.



Bob

 

[Chris Thomas]

couple of points on this post

first - the term nano is a description of scale. lumping all coatings that are based on nanochemistry together is like saying that because cars have four wheels they are all the same.

second - are you sure you mean 2 microns film build. if it takes around 3 gallons of paint (primer/colour/clear) to paint a car which will have around 100 microns when finished - I don't get how 20cc of your product will give 2microns of film build.

Hi Rob,

I certainly didn't mean to offend nano tech by generalizing...but, nothing I stated is false. Extended life sealants are just that...sealants, whether based on nano chemistry or not. Our "coating" is a coating like paint is a coating in that it will not delaminate or wear away over time with exposure to chemicals or the environment. Hydrophobic, dirt release and chemical resistant attributes remain intact indefinitely. And to be removed , one must use abrasives.

Just because you don't understand how it happens, doesn't mean it doesn't/cant happen. Our products are based on different technology/materials, so like I have said from the beginning, there should be a distinction between coatings and extended life sealants.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance


Sent from my IPhone

 

[gtechrob]

The surface area (minus the bottom since we don't want to coat that) of a 20 foot shipping container is roughly 600 square feet. a 2 micron film over that area is about 115 millilitres (cc) or just under 4 fluid oz.

Plus whatever evaporates upon application. No idea what the solvent ratio is for automotive paints or the products in question but it seems like it should be able to cover an average car with 20 cc.

i have no doubt it can cover the car but, for eg, our C1 Crystal Lacquer ships in 30ml sizes and this will give a film build of around 0.2 um. the opti coat msds indicates between 18-30% resin so that would indicate around 5ml of resin in a single 20cc tube - just wondered if there was a decimal point missing?

 

[swanicyouth]

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but the 22ple glass coating looks interesting. They claim a lot of other coatings exaggerate claims and can be removed with strong APC - but it didn't state which ones obviously. Also, they claim easier application. Wolfs Hard Body also looks interesting and is claimed to look tremendous.

 

[gtechrob]

Hi Rob,

I certainly didn't mean to offend nano tech by generalizing...but, nothing I stated is false. Extended life sealants are just that...sealants, whether based on nano chemistry or not. Our "coating" is a coating like paint is a coating in that it will not delaminate or wear away over time with exposure to chemicals or the environment. Hydrophobic, dirt release and chemical resistant attributes remain intact indefinitely. And to be removed , one must use abrasives.

Just because you don't understand how it happens, doesn't mean it doesn't/cant happen. Our products are based on different technology/materials, so like I have said from the beginning, there should be a distinction between coatings and extended life sealants.

Let me know if I can be of further assistance


Sent from my IPhone

heh - no offence taken. but am still very surprised that as a fellow manufacturer of high tech coatings that you would make such a howler of a mistake.

 

[KneeDragr]

I don't know if anyone has seen it, but the 22ple glass coating looks interesting. They claim a lot of other coatings exaggerate claims and can be removed with strong APC - but it didn't state which ones obviously. Also, they claim easier application. Wolfs Hard Body also looks interesting and is claimed to look tremendous.

I doubt any of the ceramic coatings could be removed with APC. I am interested in 22ple, CQuartz, as well as System X. I suspect they might be the same thing, rebranded.

I am selling my DD to my mom and want to put one of these coatings on it.

Opti-Coat seems like it should be a hands down winner, offering a much thicker coating. But some things bother me. First, why doesent the applicator and towels turn into glass like the ceramic coatings? Secondly, why do I see so many posts on here about it failing? I understand it might be an application error, but it seems like its happening to experienced detailers so that troubles me. Also, I have read that its very susceptible to water spotting, like maybe with a coating so thick, it shows up more. But on the other hand, its the only one that can be applied to hard plastic. The other products offer something different for hard plastic, which does not sound as durable. My DD ( CR-V ) has a TON of hard plastic so it really needs something.

 

[Chris Thomas]

Edit

 

[Chris Thomas]

heh - no offence taken. but am still very surprised that as a fellow manufacturer of high tech coatings that you would make such a howler of a mistake.

There's no mistake. My assessment of coating semantics is accurate as is my thickness references.


Sent from my IPhone

 

[swanicyouth]

I doubt any of the ceramic coatings could be removed with APC. I am interested in 22ple, CQuartz, as well as System X. I suspect they might be the same thing, rebranded.

I am selling my DD to my mom and want to put one of these coatings on it.

Opti-Coat seems like it should be a hands down winner, offering a much thicker coating. But some things bother me. First, why doesent the applicator and towels turn into glass like the ceramic coatings? Secondly, why do I see so many posts on here about it failing? I understand it might be an application error, but it seems like its happening to experienced detailers so that troubles me. Also, I have read that its very susceptible to water spotting, like maybe with a coating so thick, it shows up more. But on the other hand, its the only one that can be applied to hard plastic. The other products offer something different for hard plastic, which does not sound as durable. My DD ( CR-V ) has a TON of hard plastic so it really needs something.

OptiCoat didn't work out for me, it was gone after six months best I could tell. You could say its my fault, that fine. I polished the vehicle with Wolfgang polishes and did multiple IPA wipe downs.

So maybe my skills aren't sophisticated enough to apply OC properly.

The thing that I didn't like about the other coatings is the recommend you use their soaps and/or toppers. That kind of takes the fun out of it for me, so I'm back to traditional products.

 

[gtechrob]

There's no mistake. My assessment of coating semantics is accurate as is my thickness references.


Sent from my IPhone

so by saying "There's no mistake" you are still maintaining that all coatings based on nanotechnology are the same? Because that's the only thing being said here. :dunno:

would also be very fascinated to see your data on thickness of film build as I don't see how 5ml of resin can build 2 microns of film. it just doesn't compute. Feed back please