Blackfire Crystal Coat Failure

atgonzales said:
I wish the market info would use MUST use blackfire prep or you will experience failure
Click to expand...

It says 'need'. AG provided decent instructions and can't address every scenario where people don't follow the instructions they provide.


Quote from the AG page for BlackFire Crystal Coat:
BLACKFIRE Crystal Seal Paint Coating couldn’t be any easier to apply. First, wash the vehicle using BLACKFIRE Wet Diamond Conditioning Shampoo, and then clay it to remove above-surface bonded contaminants such as paint-overspray, industrial fallout, bugs, and tar. Next, polish the paint to remove any swirl marks or scratches. Once this has been completed, you need to cleanse the paint of polishing oils by using BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep. This step is key to success, because any type of polishing oils, finger prints, or other surface contaminants will prevent the coating from fully adhering to the surface.

I had the same concern with CQuartz, They suggest the use of Eraser before coating. I have always used IPA wipe downs, but instead of risking issues and wasting my time I bought Eraser (even know it is IPA based). Sometimes these prep products are not needed, sometimes they are. It's hard to know when, but I have decided that my time is worth more than the money wasted on potentially unneeded, yet manufacture recommended products when it comes to coatings.
 
The web page on the AG site did kind of mentioned it....of sort.

It said...

" you need to cleanse the paint of polishing oils by using BLACKFIRE Crystal Coat Paint Prep. This step is key to success, "


Regardless.... I am not 100% sure if that is the root cause.

A few questions. Some of them may seem trivial but I just want to cover all bases. Please excuse them.

1. Was the bottle shaken well prior to use?

2. How long did you wait before you wipe down the coating with a MF?

3. How large of an area were you working with and did you let the panel gas out a bit (post IPA wipe down) prior to applying the coating?

4. what was the frequency of a fresh applicator or towel?

5. Were the applicator and the towel inspected (no debris or contaminants) prior to use? Was it a Short or long pile MF that you used???
 
Yes, the bottle was shaken, I used two applicators, yes I inspected the applicators, I used a short nap mf for wipe down

Guys, all I can is express what happened. I'm a big fan of autogeek, for now disappointed in the product as well as myself.
 
I had a similar experience with another silica based coating. Hazy appearance upon applying. The culprit was that I used the leftover product from a previous job a few weeks earlier. I didn't seal it properly and the product was crystallizing in the bottle.

Being OCD...I now store all leftovers in an air tight container with it being sealed individually with an air tight wrap.

I wonder maybe air has gotten in somehow and you got a bad bottle.
 
DaveT435 said:
GTechniq tells you not to use panel wipe for other manufacturers coatings. They said different manufacturers use different chemical compositions to work best with their products. True??? Hard to say, to me it seems like clean paint is clean paint, but manufacturers want to sell as much product as they can so if they tell you not to but theirs maybe there is something to it??? I can't really see the picture very good. Is it possible it's excess product dried on top? Or some water ran down from somewhere on the car and got wiped into the coating?
Click to expand...

I perhaps hastily responded earlier, and with the same thoughts of thinking "clean paint is clean paint", but I'm certainly no chemical engineer, and my earlier assumptions could be dead wrong.

The variability of conditions, products used, user methods I guess can all effect coating success.....or failure.

Was a reason that the first times I ever used any coatings, I did a good bit of research first on each product, to learn what the orthodox methods for each were beforehand.
 
I have found there is a learning to curve to many products. If this was the first car you used it on, I wouldn't necessarily bash the product quite yet. I would re-do one of those panels (try the BF prep spray) and see how it comes out. Chances are you just need to get your application method down. And I'm not saying that as a dig, so don't take it that way. If you run into the same problem, I wouldn't be shy about calling PBMG and see if they will send you a replacement to try out. Bad batches do happen from time to time. Maybe make a video when you re-do it so that others can see your method and critique/make suggestions if needed.
 
When you say redo it, does clay,! polish again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I posted earlier about my first time using Blackfire Crystal Coat yesterday. Last night I couldn't comment about the total success of my application since rain prevented me from moving the car out of the garage.

This morning there was a brief period of sunshine so I was able to move the car out of the garage. All I can say is "WOW." Impressive clarity over the entire car (2015 Subaru Outback). I did use the Blackfire Paint Prep before application. The paint prep left a different feel to the finish that I never experienced when using IPA wipe down. Even if I never apply Crystal Coat to another car, I think I will keep on using the paint prep. It was so easy to use and as a bonus, smells great.

I used the LC applicator covered by a square of CarPro suede microfiber. I had to use two squares due to dropping the first one on the garage floor. During application, neither of the suede squares developed any stiffness due to drying of the coating. However, after applying to a panel I sealed the applicator and suede in a zip lock bag while I did the wipe down.

Next weekend I plan to apply Blackfire Crystal Coat to our 2nd 2015 Outback.
 
atgonzales said:
When you say redo it, does clay,! polish again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just repolish a panel, clean with BF prep and give it another go. Yes it will be time consuming, but see if the results are different. If it's a bad bottle you will know pretty quick.
 
Now I hope I win the blackfire give away it has the paint prep and I will keep all posted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok everyone re-did the van and used LESS product and the van looks outstanding. Only issue is the loss of product from the bottle try only use less product on the applicator. I think it looked better when we drove to theater and it sat in the sun.

Another home run for Autogeek, please fix the bottle and or tip
 
atgonzales said:
Ok everyone re-did the van and used LESS product and the van looks outstanding. Only issue is the loss of product from the bottle try only use less product on the applicator. I think it looked better when we drove to theater and it sat in the sun.

Another home run for Autogeek, please fix the bottle and or tip
Click to expand...

A good way to combat this is the tip method. Hold the bottle upright with the tip open. Put the applicator on top and tip the bottle upside down quickly then back upright. For the first use, maybe do this in two spots on the applicator like the 1/3 and 2/3 line. Then for each panel just a tip in the middle of the applicator.

Just providing the method here...I haven't used CC yet, so as far as how many times to do this, maybe someone else can opine?
 
I would be afraid of too much product dispensing, which caused my first problem too much product. There really should not be a technique to dispense product out of a bottle
 
atgonzales said:
I would be afraid of too much product dispensing, which caused my first problem too much product. There really should not be a technique to dispense product out of a bottle
Click to expand...

watch a couple cquartz videos. it's the same technique most of those guys use.

why can't there be "techniques"? 80% of what we do in detailing involves techniques, improving on those techniques, and then improving again...
 
Cquartz bottle and dispenser are totally different then the Blackfire bottle and I have used Dlux. It just my opinion.

Maybe not a technique to dispense liquid out of a bottle maybe more user friendly so product is not lost
 
I would use the manufacturer's recommended prep to CYA. However, I personally don't think it's necessary.

I did a four panel test of IPA, Eraser, Panel Wipe and PBLSCP and then applied PBLDPC. All four panels failed at the same rate. I concluded that it had nothing to do with the prep.

When I applied Gtechniq C1/EXO to my car 2 years ago, I used Panel Wipe.

When I applied 22PLE to my car 1 year ago, I used Eraser and IPA. No problems.

Bonding of the coating is most effective when it occurs directly to the paint. The prep really doesn't need to be that of the coating manufacturer. The science doesn't make any sense if they require a specific prep. I think it's purely a marketing maneuver, which is fine. But I don't think you can blame a coating failure on one prep or the other.

GTechniq probably has that as a disclaimer because they don't want to face any issues of someone blaming their products for a financial loss. That's like labeling coffee as "hot." I'm sure it is to protect them legally.

Sent into the Ether via Tapatalk 🆒
 
atgonzales said:
View attachment 34621
Click to expand...

Hi Gonzales

Sorry to chime in, but I had a similar problem with a SiO2 based coating, I think the residue left in the applicator started to crystallize, to harden; sometimes it hardens and sometimes, depending on the brand, it starts to become more viscous. In my case, it destroyed the foam, it made it hard with no cushion and it started to break into tiny pieces.
What I discovered is that the applicator has some 45 minutes life, in a temp of 25 to 35C, if you take more than that to apply, throw it away and grab a brand new.
By the way, the panels that showed problems were the last to be applied?
I also keep the SiO2 coatings in the fridge. SiO2 seems to hate high temps, it reacts quicker.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top