burn my paint?

Someone give it a shot on their car with a 4 inch pad.:buffing: I'll be the first to say "Not it".:D
 
Like said above use a 4 inch pad, orange, yellow with some compound. I will be waiting on the Flex, thanks.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Like said above use a 4 inch pad, orange, yellow with some compound. I will be waiting on the Flex, thanks.
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While I'd never use a cutting pad on the PC, I believe I have some 5" orange ones that came free with the unit collecting dust somewhere. I pull out my test hood tomorrow and see if we can burn some paint. I try it with some M105 and then without anything at all. I don't have a video camera but my point and shoot should be sufficient.
 
O.K., you don't have to prove it to me, I know it is possible. My point is before making a statement that the pc can not burn paint, you should make sure it is a 100% fact. Just because you haven't burned the paint with a pc doesn't mean it isn't possible. Will it take longer than a rotary, yes, can the pc burn paint yes. As far as a pc easier to use than a rotary, that is up for debate. I feel there really isn't much difference if you pay attention to what you are doing. It isn't the tool that causes the problems, it is the user. It just gets old seeing people post that you need to start with a pc before getting a rotary, that is bs. Any tool can do damage in the right hands or someone that doesn't pay attention to what they are doing.
 
The pc is just a simple tool that any idiot can throw at their car and either have to be trying or do something completely dumb to cause any real damage to the finish. At the same token, it is almost completely ineffective at removing anything but the slightest of imperfections.

While it is not 100% safe in the hands of 100% of the people, it is a good learning tool and probably the safest (not easiest or most effective) to use for any beginner. I have never used a rotary, but I would like to try it out on a junker or a panel from u-pull-it or something before I make the jump to replace my da and pads. I did get to try a flex 3401 at sema and I liked it over the pc, but it still will never be as effective as a rotary, and from watching and asking questions to the other detailers at sema the technique is exactly the same with amazing results that neither a pc, udm or flex can accomplish. Not to mention a lot faster.

What i'm trying to get at here is that a pc is not better than a rotary in any way, but is much more forgiving when you make a mistake or are trying to learn the process. Thus being the machine most recommended to beginer detailers.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
O.K., you don't have to prove it to me, I know it is possible. My point is before making a statement that the pc can not burn paint, you should make sure it is a 100% fact. Just because you haven't burned the paint with a pc doesn't mean it isn't possible. Will it take longer than a rotary, yes, can the pc burn paint yes. As far as a pc easier to use than a rotary, that is up for debate. I feel there really isn't much difference if you pay attention to what you are doing. It isn't the tool that causes the problems, it is the user. It just gets old seeing people post that you need to start with a pc before getting a rotary, that is bs. Any tool can do damage in the right hands or someone that doesn't pay attention to what they are doing.
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Well I already made the video so here you go.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXMy3j5MatM]YouTube - 08GMC 047.AVI[/video]
 
Well, drat. I was hoping it would burn through just so I could see what a burn-through looks like. But at least Rasky is saved, at this point, from having to give Rocket a new Flex. But if you're in the mood, Rasky, to give away Flexes, I'd be happy to be gifted by one. :)

Al
 
akimel said:
Well, drat. I was hoping it would burn through just so I could see what a burn-through looks like. But at least Rasky is saved, at this point, from having to give Rocket a new Flex. But if you're in the mood, Rasky, to give away Flexes, I'd be happy to be gifted by one. :)

Al
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LOL. :D

Well burn-through it can do. I just don't believe it can actually burn, or melt the paint like a rotary. If it can be done I'd love to see it, and would happily admit being wrong. But the simple fact is that I held it in one spot for about 90 seconds with no damage, and it was not even close to the temp needed to melt paint. I mean you can hold the unit on your hand, and it doesn't even hurt, how is it supposed to melt paint?
 
There you just pointed it out that it will burn the paint. Never heard of melting the paint and I have been using a rotary for over 20 years and have wet sanded over a 1000 cars. So I will be expecting a Flex.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
There you just pointed it out that it will burn the paint. Never heard of melting the paint and I have been using a rotary for over 20 years and have wet sanded over a 1000 cars. So I will be expecting a Flex.
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I think maybe you missed post #13 and #20.

I grew up with a father who owned a body shop, located in my back yard, and I was wet sanding and buffing cars at 14. I have about 19 years experience myself, which started on a rotary.

Again, I'll happily admit I'm wrong if someone can prove it.
 
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It sounds to me like the term "burning" is being miss-understood.

Burn - To damage or injure by fire, heat, radiation, electricity, or a caustic agent.

Now any tool, or even hand app that is removing clear will "rub thru" the paint over time. I think when I said the PC cannot burn paint; some members inferred it as "rubbing thru". Sorry if that is the case.
 
RaskyR1 said:
What speed setting are you using for correction?
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Hi Rasky, sorry I did not see your post. I use the speed 5 or 5.5 when I was doing paint correction. The vibrations came from me pushing really hard when doing paint correction as from what I have read, you are supposed to apply 15-20 pounds of pressure. Polishing is nice and easy and pleasant, but paint correction is hard. I must admit that I was probably applying closer to double that amount of pressure when doing paint correction because I thought that over-doing it wouldn't have any negative effects, whereas under-applying the proper amount of pressure wouldn't get the job done properly.

I have to agree with Risky on this one; you cannot actually burn the paint with the Porter Cable. There has been no amount of pressure and extended period of time where I have been able to get the pad or the paint surface to be anything more than warm to the touch when I was doing my car.
 
Well then you should know the term of burning the paint, it is a rub through. So when do I get my flex.
 
Emile said:
Hi Rasky, sorry I did not see your post. I use the speed 5 or 5.5 when I was doing paint correction. The vibrations came from me pushing really hard when doing paint correction as from what I have read, you are supposed to apply 15-20 pounds of pressure. Polishing is nice and easy and pleasant, but paint correction is hard. I must admit that I was probably applying closer to double that amount of pressure when doing paint correction because I thought that over-doing it wouldn't have any negative effects, whereas under-applying the proper amount of pressure wouldn't get the job done properly.

I have to agree with Risky on this one; you cannot actually burn the paint with the Porter Cable. There has been no amount of pressure and extended period of time where I have been able to get the pad or the paint surface to be anything more than warm to the touch when I was doing my car.
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Maybe I'm just used to the PC now but I don't think it vibrates that bad. :)

A good tip is to place a mark on your backing plate with a sharpie. When doing correction you want to apply enough pressure, but you also need to make sure that the pad is still rotating. By having the black mark there you can push down to where it stops rotating, and then back it off just enough to get it spinning. In order for the unit to be effective at removing defects the pad needs to rotate. :cheers:

Rasky
 
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ASPHALT ROCKET said:
Well then you should know the term of burning the paint, it is a rub through. So when do I get my flex.
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Well in my experience burning the paint means burning the paint, and rubbing thru means rubbing thru. You can look up "burn" in the dictionary if you like; logically my use of the term makes more sense.

Either way, I think it was clearly defined in post #13 and the video of post #20 what I was talking about.

Sorry, no FLEX for you.


To the OP, sorry this thread went so far off topic. I was only trying to assure you the unit was very safe. :o

Rasky
 
The paint getting burned is a common term that has been used before I starting doing this. If you want to get that technical with a definition that is fine. You can take the easy way out of not knowing what you are talking about. If you look on other detailing forums burning the paint is used
as a rub through as you want to call it. It is obvious that you need to learn more about this and the terminology that goes along with it. I am also sorry to the orignal poster since he/she is being mis-informed of "burning the paint". Plus I really would like to see paint "melt", that just shows you have no clue to what you are talking about. It is people like yourself that get on these forums and make statements that are incorrect and the newer people pick these up and are misinformed.
 
lets all work together versus coming apart ... the forum is to teach and help and we aim to keep it that way.
 
ASPHALT ROCKET said:
The paint getting burned is a common term that has been used before I starting doing this. If you want to get that technical with a definition that is fine. You can take the easy way out of not knowing what you are talking about. If you look on other detailing forums burning the paint is used
as a rub through as you want to call it. It is obvious that you need to learn more about this and the terminology that goes along with it. I am also sorry to the orignal poster since he/she is being mis-informed of "burning the paint". Plus I really would like to see paint "melt", that just shows you have no clue to what you are talking about. It is people like yourself that get on these forums and make statements that are incorrect and the newer people pick these up and are misinformed.
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Did you actually watch the video with Mike Pennington, an employee of Meguiars, a company who is clearly the leader in the industry, which has been around longer than you and I. If so you would have seen him melt paint, and shred a foam pad in seconds. The friction of the foam pad combined with 2400 rpm's and pressure generated so much heat and friction it melted the paint! He also said you do not want to touch the paint becasue of how hot it was. Please tell me I'm wrong if that's not burning or melting the paint...

Also, if you've worked on so many body shop cars I would think in 20+ years you would have come accross work from a half a$$ body shop who tried buffing paint that was not fully cured. What do you call those burn marks in the paint?

Regardless of how you or I use the term, I made it VERY clear with post #13 and #20 what I was talking about. You apparently failed to read all the posts which in turn led to the debate. While I may be a little newer than you on this forum, I believe it's safe to say my knowledge and advice is VERY much respected on MOL as well as a few other forums.
 
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killrwheels@autogeek said:
lets all work together versus coming apart ... the forum is to teach and help and we aim to keep it that way.
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Sorry Man. I'm not usually one to get into debates like this but I was just rubbed the wrong way this time. My point was only to show that the PC was a very safe tool.
 
As the warden in Cool Hand Luke liked to say, "What we have here is failure to communicate." :) Perhaps we need to define our terms and stipulate the difference between burning through the paint and burning the paint.

I presume that burning through the paint occurs when one buffs through the clear coat. Has anyone seen that happen with a PC? I imagine that the clear coat has to be mighty thin to begin with for that to happen.
 
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