Can you Believe this is a Hyundai
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Shortspark
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I wonder what kind of drivers Kia and Hyundai are targeting and what vehicles they are trying to compete against? The luxury market will never consider these brands to be in the same category as the Germans, for example, and maybe not even be comparable to Lexus. BMW and Mercedes, along with Porsche and Audi have a long history of performance excellence and a long held reputation for innovation, safety and luxury. And their dealer networks are second to none.
People looking for a luxury vehicle are not looking for value, that is a third or fourth consideration down there with gas mileage. That three pointed star on the Merc or BMW's kidney grills mean something you can't put a price on, even if attached to a vehicle that has no more to it, perhaps even less, than a Hyundai or Kia. If the Koreans went to a premium brand the way Honda did with Acura or Toyota did with their Lexus line, then maybe they could get a foot in the door for this level. But no one shopping a luxury brand will look at a car called Kia or Hyundai no matter how good the car is because the brand, in and of itself, is an important consideration for these buyers. Simply put, the luxury car segment and Kia/Hyundai simply do not go together or are associated with each other. It will take many years for that to happen, if ever.
There are manufacturers in this segment that may have to worry about Hyundai and Kia, but the Germans at least, are secure.
People looking for a luxury vehicle are not looking for value, that is a third or fourth consideration down there with gas mileage. That three pointed star on the Merc or BMW's kidney grills mean something you can't put a price on, even if attached to a vehicle that has no more to it, perhaps even less, than a Hyundai or Kia. If the Koreans went to a premium brand the way Honda did with Acura or Toyota did with their Lexus line, then maybe they could get a foot in the door for this level. But no one shopping a luxury brand will look at a car called Kia or Hyundai no matter how good the car is because the brand, in and of itself, is an important consideration for these buyers. Simply put, the luxury car segment and Kia/Hyundai simply do not go together or are associated with each other. It will take many years for that to happen, if ever.
There are manufacturers in this segment that may have to worry about Hyundai and Kia, but the Germans at least, are secure.
SYMAWD
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It sounds like you have:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT4tK1BQfVM]Kia K900 Commercial "Preconceived Notions" - YouTube[/video]
In all seriousness though, I do partially agree with you. There are some people that will always buy just for the badge on the front. However, I believe that younger people do not care about that as much and over time Hyundai/ Kia will be perceived as up there with the rest of them.
Personally, I would take an Optima over an A4 or C class and maybe a Genesis or Cadenza over an A6 or E class.
Hyundai and Kia are just getting started and so far with the Genesis, Equus, and Optima they have already started to prove what they can do and they will only get better.
And if they do fail at this whole luxury thing, the rest of their lineup that competes with Honda, Toyota, Chevy, etc. will still hold up.
GenesisCoupe
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I understand your reasoning. I used to have a G35 coupe and when the first generation Genesis Coupe came out i said that i'll never own one, silly Hyundai! Fast forward a year and i'm selling my g35 for a Genesis Coupe. Fast forward that and i'm on my 2nd genesis. I understand your Kia/Hyundai comment regarding luxury and while that may be true, i prefer my interior than a g37, and a 3 series. I guess it's just preference.
Another thing is; the Genesis Coupe v6 was compared to the new 435i. While the 435i is more than $10,000 more, it is slower, and has less options for the money. You are simply paying for the name.
There have been talks about a year ago with Hyundai considering making the Genesis its own line of cars, focused strictly on the luxury and speed. Not sure what happened with that though.
As you stated, it will take time, and i agree. Things like that don't just happen.
Shortspark
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"Another thing is; the Genesis Coupe v6 was compared to the new 435i. While the 435i is more than $10,000 more, it is slower, and has less options for the money. You are simply paying for the name".
And that is the point. To many, many buyers in this car segment, name is what they are paying for - and that is precisely what they want to pay for. Perhaps younger drivers see it differently. I have been driving cars for exactly 50 years and I have owned everything foreign and domestic you can think of (except a German brand). A couple years ago I decided to buy a new Mercedes ML350. I shopped around and quite frankly, the Buick Enclave offered the best value in my opinion. And the Jeep Grand Cherokee was the one closest to my heart. But when I got behind the wheel of the ML350 it had something about it I could not put my finger on. There was a certain stance and presence to it that made the others look like imitators. I think now it was due to my being in tune with it and being part of the mystique of tradition, or something like that. Was it worth the extra 15 grand over the others? Probably not. However, I said to myself that I never owned a Mercedes and I just wanted to see what all the fuss over the past 100 years has been all about. I now know and appreciate the difference. And because of that the chances are that I will be a Merc owner for the rest of my life - or until such time as that level of excellence I am experiencing for some reason turns sour.
And that is the point. To many, many buyers in this car segment, name is what they are paying for - and that is precisely what they want to pay for. Perhaps younger drivers see it differently. I have been driving cars for exactly 50 years and I have owned everything foreign and domestic you can think of (except a German brand). A couple years ago I decided to buy a new Mercedes ML350. I shopped around and quite frankly, the Buick Enclave offered the best value in my opinion. And the Jeep Grand Cherokee was the one closest to my heart. But when I got behind the wheel of the ML350 it had something about it I could not put my finger on. There was a certain stance and presence to it that made the others look like imitators. I think now it was due to my being in tune with it and being part of the mystique of tradition, or something like that. Was it worth the extra 15 grand over the others? Probably not. However, I said to myself that I never owned a Mercedes and I just wanted to see what all the fuss over the past 100 years has been all about. I now know and appreciate the difference. And because of that the chances are that I will be a Merc owner for the rest of my life - or until such time as that level of excellence I am experiencing for some reason turns sour.
SYMAWD
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The one thing no one will ever match is that feel. German cars just have a feel to them and you get it in anything German even a VW.
They just feel strong and have a certain road presence that you can't get in any other car. It's kind of like an "I'm better" feeling.
However, that feeling gets boring to me after a while, but then again at work I drive them all day long so I guess I'm just used to it.
VISITOR
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- May 10, 2007
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you have to appreciate the fact that Hyundai/kia are at least attempting to compete with the big dogs and that gives the buyer options to what he or she may be looking for. is it worth to pay $20k (maybe ever more) for the name and less options of a competitor, maybe for some. Hyundai/kia have not been around as long as some automobile manufacturers and if they've gotten this far and accomplished as much as they have, who knows where they would be if they were around just as long. in about 10 years or so (maybe even less) we'll see where they are at, and I'm sure it's only going to be uphill (let's not forget that Toyota and Honda were laughed at one point as well). one thing I've noticed is they are smart with advertising and anything from tennis, soccer golf and even football (among some other sports), you will see they get their name out there (it's all over the place) which is a start to at least get someone thinking about their cars so they can get to a dealership and test drive one for themselves and decide...
there is no right or wrong, it's up to the person who is spending their money to decide on which car is suitable for their needs and for the value they are getting...
there is no right or wrong, it's up to the person who is spending their money to decide on which car is suitable for their needs and for the value they are getting...
Shortspark
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"there is no right or wrong, it's up to the person who is spending their money to decide on which car is suitable for their needs and for the value they are getting..."
Yep, that is it in a nutshell and I totally agree, but with a caveat: the question of "value" is often times not one of dollars and cents because some buyers in this market do not care that much about dollar signs. In many ways that goes right to the heart of the matter and I'll give some examples. One of the things that impressed me when deciding on the M series was the dealer. Maybe I lucked out on a good one but the showroom was top shelf and I don't mean just squeaky clean with all the appropriate lighting but even the appointments and art work were tastefully done and coordinated. Individual offices were partitioned with wooden walls and contained their own motif. I was introduced to the service manager and he was a pro in every respect - at least that is how he acted and he gave me his card right away, assuring me he would always be available if I needed to call him. All the sales reps and office staff were impeccably dressed and acted friendly but with a hint of class and aplomb. The waiting room was full of goodies and hot/cold drinks, plush seats and big screen plasma tvs. Most of the cars for sale were sheltered on various levels like a parking garage, not on an open lot. It was obvious I was in a tightly run ship. After buying the car I took it into the service bay to have them put on the license plate holder. As I went down the ramp I had a big welcome sign on the flashing billboard highlighting my name. Yes, a little overdone perhaps but what the heck, at least they know who I am and that I am there. Two people were waiting when I got down there.
I live 40 miles away from the nearest Merc dealer and the one I use for service (although I did not buy the car at that particular dealership). When I want the oil changed or for any service and maintenance I just give them a call. I don't waste my time bringing it all that way to them, they drive up to get my car, leave a brand new C class for my use and return the next day with my car all serviced and washed as well as I could do it myself - I know, I check it thoroughly for any swirls or defects. Roadside assistance? Free and forever. Speaking of having my car washed, just bring it in and someone who really knows how to do it takes care of it while I watch tv and snack at their welcome bar - no charge of course but I leave a nice tip. The MB Club? Wonderful events, road trips and get togethers with a wealth of experience and great tips from everyone. This includes several DIY sessions a year at various dealer service centers using their bays and lifts under the tutelage and watchful eye of one or more top Mercedes mechanics - all for ten bucks a morning. With every S class introduction, a private preview is set up after business hours. It is catered, (including champagne and nice gifts for everyone) for MB owners and dealer customers.
These and so many other similar things you can not put a price on and they are simply not available or non-existent with most other brands. When buying at this level the term "value" goes far beyond the car itself and depends a great deal on how much importance the owner places on the collateral benefits of ownership. I have reached a stage in my life where things like these are important to me, although I realize they may not be important at all to others.
Nonetheless, until Kia and the others wanting to enter this segment learn what many buyers are looking for beyond the car itself, ie, what truly represents a marquis brand, they will not be seriously considered. I have no doubt they will learn but it will take time, experience and the building of a reputation in order to advance to the level we are talking about - and this is true no matter how good their cars may be. Although it appears they are making a good start, the level of excellence we see that is especially evident in the German brands goes not to one or two of their cars but permeates through their entire line and with every car they build. Hyundai and Kia can not build one or two cars and call them "luxury" models and expect to be players in this game overnight, and I am sure they know that. That is why I think they are missing the boat by not having a Lexus or Infinity-like division to showcase their upper end cars and SUVs and separate them from the generic brands. Oh gosh! Pardon my length, I never realized I was writing so much!!
Yep, that is it in a nutshell and I totally agree, but with a caveat: the question of "value" is often times not one of dollars and cents because some buyers in this market do not care that much about dollar signs. In many ways that goes right to the heart of the matter and I'll give some examples. One of the things that impressed me when deciding on the M series was the dealer. Maybe I lucked out on a good one but the showroom was top shelf and I don't mean just squeaky clean with all the appropriate lighting but even the appointments and art work were tastefully done and coordinated. Individual offices were partitioned with wooden walls and contained their own motif. I was introduced to the service manager and he was a pro in every respect - at least that is how he acted and he gave me his card right away, assuring me he would always be available if I needed to call him. All the sales reps and office staff were impeccably dressed and acted friendly but with a hint of class and aplomb. The waiting room was full of goodies and hot/cold drinks, plush seats and big screen plasma tvs. Most of the cars for sale were sheltered on various levels like a parking garage, not on an open lot. It was obvious I was in a tightly run ship. After buying the car I took it into the service bay to have them put on the license plate holder. As I went down the ramp I had a big welcome sign on the flashing billboard highlighting my name. Yes, a little overdone perhaps but what the heck, at least they know who I am and that I am there. Two people were waiting when I got down there.
I live 40 miles away from the nearest Merc dealer and the one I use for service (although I did not buy the car at that particular dealership). When I want the oil changed or for any service and maintenance I just give them a call. I don't waste my time bringing it all that way to them, they drive up to get my car, leave a brand new C class for my use and return the next day with my car all serviced and washed as well as I could do it myself - I know, I check it thoroughly for any swirls or defects. Roadside assistance? Free and forever. Speaking of having my car washed, just bring it in and someone who really knows how to do it takes care of it while I watch tv and snack at their welcome bar - no charge of course but I leave a nice tip. The MB Club? Wonderful events, road trips and get togethers with a wealth of experience and great tips from everyone. This includes several DIY sessions a year at various dealer service centers using their bays and lifts under the tutelage and watchful eye of one or more top Mercedes mechanics - all for ten bucks a morning. With every S class introduction, a private preview is set up after business hours. It is catered, (including champagne and nice gifts for everyone) for MB owners and dealer customers.
These and so many other similar things you can not put a price on and they are simply not available or non-existent with most other brands. When buying at this level the term "value" goes far beyond the car itself and depends a great deal on how much importance the owner places on the collateral benefits of ownership. I have reached a stage in my life where things like these are important to me, although I realize they may not be important at all to others.
Nonetheless, until Kia and the others wanting to enter this segment learn what many buyers are looking for beyond the car itself, ie, what truly represents a marquis brand, they will not be seriously considered. I have no doubt they will learn but it will take time, experience and the building of a reputation in order to advance to the level we are talking about - and this is true no matter how good their cars may be. Although it appears they are making a good start, the level of excellence we see that is especially evident in the German brands goes not to one or two of their cars but permeates through their entire line and with every car they build. Hyundai and Kia can not build one or two cars and call them "luxury" models and expect to be players in this game overnight, and I am sure they know that. That is why I think they are missing the boat by not having a Lexus or Infinity-like division to showcase their upper end cars and SUVs and separate them from the generic brands. Oh gosh! Pardon my length, I never realized I was writing so much!!
kirkatizer
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- Nov 20, 2012
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Detailed and drove one of these today at the shop. I like that it has a V8 and a quality interior.
GenesisCoupe
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Not so fast, Sir... There are rumors that the 2015 Genesis Coupe will be offered as a 3.0L V6 Turbo or a 5.0L v8. Those are just rumors however..
I had the 2011 2.0T and traded it in for a 2013 V6. I liked both, but the power in the v6 is amazing.
VISITOR
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Shortspark
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Autoweek magazine's January 20 issue has a report on the Genesis (sedan) and it said the next Genesis will offer the same 3.8 liter 333-hp V6 plus a 5.0 liter 429-hp V8 (which I think is rear wheel drive only). Even better is the ZF Shiftronic tranny they are positioning aft of the engine itself. My ML350 is pretty smooth in seven speed but the Shiftronic's 8 speed should be smooth as silk.
There will be an optional HTRAC (Hyundai Traction) all wheel drive but which engine(s) get it is unknown at this time. This sounds great in that HTRAC transfers torque to the front wheels via an electronically controlled clutch. I think that is what my 4-matic does but in a different way. Mine is an automatic selection as to torque transfer but the HTRAC I believe will control torque via the driver selected mode, such as eco, snow and sport modes. Each delivering different torque to various wheels based on the selected mode ratios, each of which is different. I must admit, they do have a lot of interesting goodies on this car!
There will be an optional HTRAC (Hyundai Traction) all wheel drive but which engine(s) get it is unknown at this time. This sounds great in that HTRAC transfers torque to the front wheels via an electronically controlled clutch. I think that is what my 4-matic does but in a different way. Mine is an automatic selection as to torque transfer but the HTRAC I believe will control torque via the driver selected mode, such as eco, snow and sport modes. Each delivering different torque to various wheels based on the selected mode ratios, each of which is different. I must admit, they do have a lot of interesting goodies on this car!
Midnight Blue
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My daughter recently traded in her 2010 Mini Cooper S for a 2014 Hyundai Veloster. We saw the Veloster at the Motor Trend Car show in Baltimore in February. She fell in love with this car and bought one in March.
This is a sporty looking, economical pocket rocket! It has a turbocharged engine and every hi-tech toy you could want built into the car including a neat back up camera.
My wife has a 2011 Hyundai Sonata which she loves as well. Me, I'm a Ford Mustang man!
Midnight Blue
This is a sporty looking, economical pocket rocket! It has a turbocharged engine and every hi-tech toy you could want built into the car including a neat back up camera.
My wife has a 2011 Hyundai Sonata which she loves as well. Me, I'm a Ford Mustang man!
Midnight Blue
Klasse Act
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- Feb 21, 2012
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....and MUCH MORE RELIABLE TOO!
Congrats to her, sweet ride!
Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
Midnight Blue
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Reliability was a major concern for my daughter. While her Mini Cooper S only had 23,000 miles on it she had numerous mechanical and electrical issues with this car. Fortunately for her all of these issues were covered under her warranty but she never felt completely confident in driving this car.
The other major consideration for buying the Hyundai Veloster is that she can use 87 octane gas versus the required 93 octane gas with her Mini.
I also need to update my avatar as I now own and drive a 2006 Mustang GT!
Midnight Blue
Klasse Act
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I had an 07' R56 and it had nothing but trouble in 62k:
-3 aux fuel pumps
-1 bad fuel injector
-1 bad timing chain
-1 bad MAF
-numerous frozen intakes
The use of prem vs. regular is no big deal, its .40 cents more a gallon here, so in the MINI that ends up being an extra $4.00 on a completely empty tank, really not an issue for the performance you get. Is the Veloster the turbo version?
brondondolon
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- Nov 12, 2013
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Although its nice i couldnt get one. When i bought and sold cars bought a hyundai accent and lost so much money on it it wasnt even funny. Bought it for $1100 because it needed a new trans. Trying to get the old trans out was a nightmare... I must have had at least 10 bolts snap off on me that i had to drill out. The rack and pinion was a nightmare to get back in. Put a new trans i got for $1000 in it and fired it up. Drove it down the street took it on the freeway to see if all the gears worked and it made this awful noise from the engine and started blowing black smoke out the exhaust. Got it towed home which cost $70 took the engine apart and i have no idea how but a chunk broke away from the piston and chewed up the entire cyclinder wall beyond boring it... So i got a new engine for $1500 and by this time i was in the hole. Repairs exceeded what the car was worth. So i was at the end of my rope. I put the new engine in and as im bolting it up to the trans a chunk of the block that had the screw hole snapped off... And i mean a big chunk. At least the size of a base ball. I couldnt believe it. I wasnt even torquing on it i was prob putting about 15 lbs of pressure on it. So i ended up putting it on craiglist for free after i carved profanities all over its body lol. After that hyundai left a bad taste in my mouth that i just cant over come no matter how nice their cars look now.