Car has been corrected too many times what products do you recommend

thanks Joe sorry did not mean to imply anything with nervous, poor choice of words.

Good to know so then my readings are about par with what you are seeing.

Thanks!
 
estcstm3 said:
thanks Joe sorry did not mean to imply anything with nervous, poor choice of words.

Good to know so then my readings are about par with what you are seeing.

Thanks!
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Nah no worries man! Just want to make sure the info that gets out there is solid for anyone that may read it.

Context is important and I’d hate for someone to skim read it and see ‘120 microns’ and ‘nervous’ and suddenly due to the beauty of the internet that becomes a truth.

Reality is I probably wouldn’t even put abrasives to anything under 75-80 dependent upon the car and what the typical paint type is for that make/model. Wash, wax or seal and if that’s not good enough then I’m sorry, I’ll pass. Typically, though, those cars are hack jobs by the $40 jiffy-buff Craigslist specials, and are easy to spot thanks to buffer trails and holograms.


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New Euro cars are coming well under 90um, I have corrected cars that had 60um, its all about common sense. If we not gona correct cars under 100um, pretty soon every detailer and detailing store and forum will shut down.
 
Cruzscarwash said:
What about blackfires new paint cleaner? That is just filler as well right?

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Its not new its just relabeled. To the op how did it get so thin did u polish it a lot? If it was my car I'd sell it and move on before the clear actually fails.
 
Here are the products you should not use:
- Compounds
- All-in-one polish
- Cleaner waxes

Here are the product you can use:
- Finishing polishes
- Glazes

Finishing polishes includes things like Meguiars M205 and Ultimate polish. They will remove less than 1 micron even if you are agressive with it. So it is not a big issue

Glazes are not really abrasive, so your would not have to worry about them reducing the thickness of the clearcoat. On the other hand they are temporary and will be removed when you wash the car.

My suggestion: Do a finishing polish then use CarPro Essence. This is a polish with a glaze in it. It will fill what ever light defect that wasn't removed with the finishing polish. Then apply a nano-ceramic coating to protect the paint.

With that being said, there are reasons why the car was corrected many times. So what you really need to do once you have done the polishing and coating is to change the way your maintain the car. Learn how to wash it properly so that you are not damaging the paint all the time. If you live in an area that is cold enough to have snow, learn how to remove snow without scratching the car. Those 2 things are how paint get damaged the most.
 
MarkD51 said:
IMO, and if it's my choice.
And just like I did on my own beloved 1997 Tahoe in my Avatar with only 45K on the Odo, which as you know is now 21 years of age, I decided to go with a Quartz Paint Coating about 3 years ago.

The Coating I personally chose, was Carpro CQuartz UK.

In reality, it didn't seem to much matter that I have tried my hardest to meticulously maintain the finish over the years, and with the use of high quality products such as Collinite Waxes, Megs #20 Sealant, Zaino, and others, I felt that as they say "Time waits for no Man", and that as well father time will eventually take its toll on a pant finish with UV damage, oxidation, continual washing, other contaminants, road salts, rains, on and on.

Only way to stop such aging and wear, place the vehicle in a glass case.

That my personal thoughts were that such paints aren't going to take a continual pounding with the washes, with the cleaner waxes, with polishing, that eventually something has to give, and that give in my case, and probably yours as well will be clear coat failure.

IMO, there's nothing out there at present as far as conventional waxes or sealants go, that will protect as well as a very good paint coating will.

That they are much more durable against washing induced marring, chemical and fallout attack, UV damage, etc. They will then become the sacrificial top and outermost coating layer upon the paint.

Such is not really open for debate IMO, as it is known fact coatings are much more durable and can offer a good number of benefits to a paint system, especially one that has seen better years.

I myself am a hobbyist, but on occasion have detailed other's vehicles not only over years, but many decades (I'm 63), but for my own personal vehicles, I feel a paint coating has become a no-brainer, and will be what I'll reach for.

That any future vehicle(s) I may ever acquire in the future, it will definitely be coated after decon and correction if needed. Same with all trim and wheels.

Hope this helps.
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It is up for debate, a coating is more durable as far as longevity it doesn't necessarily give u better protection. A freshly applied coat of wax or sealant protects just as well as a freshly applied coating. All that 9h hardness / scratch resistance stuff is unproven. They are so thin they can't protect against scratches. At least not more then any wax would.

There's way to much hype out there with coatings
 
I have had bird etchings into the clear coat with 6 different coatings but never with 915 or Pete’s 53 which tells me that waxes with higher percentage carnauba protects better.
 
Ronin47 said:
I have had bird etchings into the clear coat with 6 different coatings but never with 915 or Pete’s 53 which tells me that waxes with higher percentage carnauba protects better.
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What coatings??

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Cruzscarwash said:
What coatings??

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CQ Classic, UK, TAC Shine, Optimum, Gyeon Mohs, some other brands prototype stuff. Carnauba protects the leaves of trees from the natural elements and is very hard by nature that should teach us something. It might not last a year like coatings but it protects better for months.
 
Ronin47 said:
New Euro cars are coming well under 90um, I have corrected cars that had 60um, its all about common sense. If we not gona correct cars under 100um, pretty soon every detailer and detailing store and forum will shut down.
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Again, while I agree with your statement I think you're taking it a bit out of context.

I also just realized we don't know what year/make/model the vehicle is, and so maybe I spoke too soon.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I can speak for myself. I'm not saying don't correct, I'm saying use some common sense and scientific method.

Is this a used car that most likely was painted with products that build more film or is it more recent? I.e. are we talking a 2007 or a 2017 model vehicle?

I don't know about you, but I certainly would treat a 2018 Mercedes/BMW with ceramic clear reading in the 80s as opposed to a car like my 2004 Grand Marquis reading in the same range. Again, it wouldn't stop me from correcting but would cause me to take additional readings to get a better understanding of what's going on.
 
Had to check with Skynet err... I mean Google


80 microns = 3.14 mils


If that's factory paint, 2 mils is "supposed" to be the clear layer.


I think I shared the reason OEM sprays 2 mils of clear on this forum somewhere. Total film build is kind if relative if the car is brand new.


:dunno:
 
Mike Phillips said:
Had to check with Skynet err... I mean Google


80 microns = 3.14 mils


If that's factory paint, 2 mils is "supposed" to be the clear layer.


I think I shared the reason OEM sprays 2 mils of clear on this forum somewhere. Total film build is kind if relative if the car is brand new.


:dunno:
Click to expand...

2 mils is alot of clear.
 
fightnews said:
It is up for debate, a coating is more durable as far as longevity it doesn't necessarily give u better protection. A freshly applied coat of wax or sealant protects just as well as a freshly applied coating. All that 9h hardness / scratch resistance stuff is unproven. They are so thin they can't protect against scratches. At least not more then any wax would.

There's way to much hype out there with coatings
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There are plenty of video that shows the scratch resistance of coatings. Just search Youtube. Most are done using the lighter strike test.

In this case, durability is the most important factor. Since the paint is really thin, you want the protection to last as long as possible to prevent having to polish it again and again.
 
Ronin47 said:
2 mils is alot of clear.
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Well, 2 mils is 48 microns of clear... I don't know if I would call that "A lot". A heavy compounding can remove 10 microns... and you definatelly don't want to remove a quarter of your protection in one go.
 
Here's my take on thin paint and whether or not correction should be attempted. My thoughts are quite contrary to the general consensus of this forum but I'll share them for information nonetheless...

Regardless of paint thickness readings, which I don't place a whole lot of credence to anyway since most gauges only measure total film thickness and not clear-coat thickness (which is the important parameter), correction should be attempted whenever there are defects that you can't live with. My rational is simply that if the defects bother you enough that you want them gone then why not make the attempt to eliminate, or improve upon, them. If you are successful then all is good. If not, then the car needed a paint job anyway.
 
Calendyr said:
Well, 2 mils is 48 microns of clear... I don't know if I would call that "A lot". A heavy compounding can remove 10 microns... and you definatelly don't want to remove a quarter of your protection in one go.
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10 microns from heavy compounding is excessive, the worst of defects has seen me remove 4-5 microns and thats pushing it.
 
Mike Phillips said:
Had to check with Skynet err... I mean Google


80 microns = 3.14 mils


If that's factory paint, 2 mils is "supposed" to be the clear layer.


I think I shared the reason OEM sprays 2 mils of clear on this forum somewhere. Total film build is kind if relative if the car is brand new.


:dunno:
Click to expand...



This is very, very important info. I had remembered you mentioning this in a past thread: Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips

If the clear is supposed to be 2 mils or ~50 microns, and your total paint system is measuring 80, it's time to be cautious.

This is an old graphic (2012 ish) but I think it's relevant:

Paint-Defects.jpg


Primer at 8-38 microns, color coat at 13-38 microns, and clear at 38-120 microns. If you look at the minimum values, that's 59 microns with 38 microns of clear. The maxes go to 196 microns, with 120 microns of clear. I think it represents an awfully inflated idea of how much is actually clear coat, especially with modern water-borne and ceramic-based clear systems.

If we take the median average of the primer coat and color coat numbers represented, you'd have 23 microns of primer and about 26 microns of color coat. The median of the clear numbers is 79 microns, for a total of 128 microns.



Taking a reading of 80 microns on the above 3 situations would represent the following:

lows: not possible, started below 80.

Medians: 48 microns removed, of a total of 79 microns of clear, leaving you with 31 microns or 39% of the original clear coat.

Highs: 116 microns removed, of a total of 120 microns of clear, leaving you with 4 microns of clear or 3.3% of the original clear coat.


Even new cars have some correction done to them, sanding or buffing etc prior to leaving the factory or once they get to the dealer or get delivered. Unless you're truly getting a car at a point where you can measure the paint right after the paint was sprayed, cut and buffed, you won't truly know where it started. The above example just goes to show you what kind of variance you can have between differing cars in different stages of their life cycle with differing paint systems.

THAT is the reason I begin to get a lot more cautious under the 80-100 range, and start being more critical of the total picture.
 
One trick you can use is to mesure the paint in the door jambs. Usually the clearcoat is thinner there. So it can give you a base value to see how thick the clearcoat is. For example, let's say you mesure 80 micron average on the panels. If your reading in the door jambs is 60 microns, you know your clear coat is gonna be at the very least 20 microns thick. Most likelly twice that. So you can have a baseline to determine if you can do anything to the paint or not. In the same example, if you mesure the panels and the thickness is 100 microns and when you measure the door jambs you get 90 microns... I would be very, very hesitant to do anything at all to that paint because I would have to assume it has been compounded to death.

We can't know for sure how thick each layer of paint is, but we can make educated guesses.

As for the other comment regarding max 5 microns for compounding, the 10 micron number i mentionned comes from a video I watched about 2 years ago. I never remember which one it is because I watch so many of them... but what I do remember is that the readings were done during a full correction with 1500 grit, 3000 grit, compound and polish. During the compounding stage, 10 microns were removed. 1 micron was removed during the polishing step (this might be more or less accurate depending on how precise the paint gauge is). Did they actually remove 10 microns or did the paint gauge give a bad reading... hard to say. I think most paint gauge have a precision of about +/- 3 microns. So it is possible only 7 microns were removed. I still consider 10 to be a good value to keep in mind and be cautious about it.
 
option 1 -kamikaze artificial clear coat then a glass coating.
option 2-carpro essence plus then a sealant/wax(some put glass coating over essence plus an Australian thing and swear they don't have bonding issues try at your own risk of coating failure)
option 3- spray wd-40 on your car every day a Russian thang (not to be taken serious)
 
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