Cloudy haze on black - finding the right combo

nsxlife

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Hey all it's my first post but I've been reading these forums and using a PC for about 12 years now. The results I've been getting with my first black car have me scratching my head - something's not quite right with my procedure and I can't proceed until I can replicate good results. I finally got my own garage to take my time, and my spring project is to really bring this black paint to life as I'm a few years behind schedule. The positive is on a test spot I've achieved a pretty swirl free finish that I'm happy with, but I am having a problem with haze and overall dull looking finish after even a finishing polish.

Compounded with v34 and orange flat or hex - trying plenty of different work times and pretty good results here.
Began polishing with v36 and white and while swirls are getting knocked down I'm surprised to see bad overlap marks and haze. Tried another pass and new pad, no difference. Same results with black pad and just for kicks even tried a blue pad. Varied work time, speed, pressure, lube and still looking horrible. Normally I would expect a cutting polish with extended work time to clean itself up pretty good? I must be going mad so I bust out my go to SSR2.5 and 1 and I'm still getting marks and haze.

So I try v38 final polish and black pad, this cleans up the overlap marks and I'm starting to feel relief, and then try it with a blue pad to see if I can further clarify the finish, but it's still has this sort of dullness to it with an inspection light. Yes there is some clear coat pitting but those are distinguishable from an overall cloudy look. I've also been having issues with product gumming and build up despite fresh lubed pads and 5 small dots of product. The drier I go the dust almost seems to rub into the pad and pigtail causing further marring, and the more lubed starts to fling gum after a few passes. As it stands I've been on the wetter side but it's pretty hard to remove but at the same time looks a little better than the drier side.

So, what's the secret with black? I'll admit I am a little rusty and it's my first black car. I just want to get the paint to the point where I can finish it up ultra clean with a finishing polish. On my other cars I used to just hit it with SSR1 and a black pad and it would come out to an incredible slick finish you would be ready to glaze and seal. Sorry for the long post, but hope someone can chime in.

View attachment 47167
Here you can see the circular cloud on the left, almost looks like product on the surface.
 
Cleaning your pads on the fly?

What do you mean by, "fresh lubed pads"?


Grab some M205 in the morning
 
I'd ditch the chemical guys products and upgrade to Menzerna FG400/PF2500/FF4000, HD Adapt/Polish/Speed or CarPro Essence/Reflect. The CG Hex Logic pads are crap too - try some Lake Country or Buff and Shine foam or Meg's MF pads. These products and pads will make a world of difference.
 
I had excellent results on my 1989 Camaro (black w/SOFT paint) using Meguiar's #9 High Tech Swirl Remover. Now Ultimate Polish (or M205) would probably be the go to product for soft black paints. My current Camaro is also black but with hard paint and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound polishes out LSP ready even when using a cutting pad.
 
I've been experimenting with either brand new or freshly washed pad, primed. I have a mix of LC flat, and even tried a brand new red hydro today to check the finish each pad brings. Keep in mind I am experimenting on the horizontal surfaces and just want a solid result before I proceed to the rest of the car. I did get a couple of the hex for comparison. Even though CG might not be at the Menz level I still feel like it should work good enough...possibly their products aren't as user friendly as I bought into, but there are a ton of good reviews and I'm hoping it's operator error in this case. I've always been die hard SSR2.5, 1 and Black hole but wanted to branch out for once.

Either way, this soft Honda black paint is not cooperating well.
 
I had excellent results on my 1989 Camaro (black w/SOFT paint) using Meguiar's #9 High Tech Swirl Remover. Now Ultimate Polish (or M205) would probably be the go to product for soft black paints. My current Camaro is also black but with hard paint and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound polishes out LSP ready even when using a cutting pad.

That's what I am getting at, shouldn't any medium polish and medium pad still finish and clean up pretty good?
 
Please be as specific as possible and describe you polishing technique

-Machine Type?
-Machine Speed?
-Downward Pressure on Machine?
-How fast are you moving the polisher across the paint (arm speed)?
-How many passes are you making per section?
-How large is the section you are polishing (24"x24")?
-Cleaning pads on the fly and how often?
-Did you decontaminated the paint prior to polishing?
-Are you working in a garage or outside?
-Specifically how are you preparing the pad for polishing (primed, # & specific size of polish dots)?
-What is happening right before you stop polishing a section (dusting, "pills" of polish coming off)?
-How easy is the polish residue to remove after polishing?
-The pads are dry before you prime them right?
 
That's what I am getting at, shouldn't any medium polish and medium pad still finish and clean up pretty good?

#9 was a FINE polish, and I don't believe that Ult Polish is much more aggressive. I would try a finishing pad (but still on the firmer side) and medium speed on the PC and medium to light pressure
 
I had the same results on a pitch black Dodge with V36 and Hex Logic pads. Switched to Megs 105/205 combo with same pads and had a huge improvement.
 
HD Adapt:

One step with Griots G21 and Orange Buff & Shine Pads Topped with HD Poxy. About $35.00 for both products. Best bang for your buck!

Before:




After:

 
HD Adapt:

One step with Griots G21 and Orange Buff & Shine Pads Topped with HD Poxy. About $35.00 for both products. Best bang for your buck!

Before:




After:

Looks good. IME, OEM Nissan paint is some of the easiest paint to work with. Not too hard or soft. Defects remove fairly easily and finishes good.
 
Looks good. IME, OEM Nissan paint is some of the easiest paint to work with. Not too hard or soft. Defects remove fairly easily and finishes good.

This took for test spots before I got these results. I'd say that's a pretty good description. I'd give it a 6.5ish on a 1-10 as far as towards the hard end of the scale. HD Polish w / orange pad only achieved 75% ish with my Duetto. The perfection came with my G21 and the Orange pad and Adapt.
 
This took for test spots before I got these results. I'd say that's a pretty good description. I'd give it a 6.5ish on a 1-10 as far as towards the hard end of the scale. HD Polish w / orange pad only achieved 75% ish with my Duetto. The perfection came with my G21 and the Orange pad and Adapt.
Cool. I'm stuck on my 3401, but so tempted to buy a Rupes Mark II 21.
 
I'd ditch the chemical guys products and upgrade to Menzerna FG400/PF2500/FF4000, HD Adapt/Polish/Speed or CarPro Essence/Reflect. The CG Hex Logic pads are crap too - try some Lake Country or Buff and Shine foam or Meg's MF pads. These products and pads will make a world of difference.
agree
 
This took for test spots before I got these results. I'd say that's a pretty good description. I'd give it a 6.5ish on a 1-10 as far as towards the hard end of the scale. HD Polish w / orange pad only achieved 75% ish with my Duetto. The perfection came with my G21 and the Orange pad and Adapt.

Agree
 
HD Adapt:

One step with Griots G21 and Orange Buff & Shine Pads Topped with HD Poxy. About $35.00 for both products. Best bang for your buck!

Before:




After:

Love that stuff works great on promblem cars like corvettes.I picked up a used dealer in town that only sells vettes I had to dial in a system with awesome results in a timely manner and HD works awesome.Doing 2 vettes tomorrow both are black.
 
All vettes.net.all the cars I did that are still in the inventory everyone I did with HD products.
 
I might just return the CG stuff I got and man up to the Menz line. Honestly their product names make it difficult to understand without a lot of research on here what a good cut/polish/finish combo would be. I thought CG polishes would be extra user friendly because it's marketed towards more new guys, and they have a comprehensive line, but I didn't find anything that easy to use and was questioning everything I've learned through the years.
 
Hey all it's my first post but I've been reading these forums and using a PC for about 12 years now.

Wow!

Reading the forums for 12 years! And this is your first post!

Can I ask you which forums you read and where do find you bet the best help and information? After 12 years you must have read a number of forums and learned a lot.


The results I've been getting with my first black car have me scratching my head - something's not quite right with my procedure and I can't proceed until I can replicate good results. I finally got my own garage to take my time, and my spring project is to really bring this black paint to life as I'm a few years behind schedule.

Black paint is the hardest color to perfect because it shows everything.


The positive is on a test spot I've achieved a pretty swirl free finish that I'm happy with, but I am having a problem with haze and overall dull looking finish after even a finishing polish.

So your TECHNIQUE is removing the defects but the paint doesn't look good after buffing?


Compounded with v34 and orange flat or hex - trying plenty of different work times and pretty good results here.
Began polishing with v36 and white and while swirls are getting knocked down I'm surprised to see bad overlap marks and haze.


Tried another pass and new pad, no difference. Same results with black pad and just for kicks even tried a blue pad. Varied work time, speed, pressure, lube and still looking horrible. Normally I would expect a cutting polish with extended work time to clean itself up pretty good? I must be going mad so I bust out my go to SSR2.5 and 1 and I'm still getting marks and haze.

So I try v38 final polish and black pad, this cleans up the overlap marks and I'm starting to feel relief, and then try it with a blue pad to see if I can further clarify the finish, but it's still has this sort of dullness to it with an inspection light.


What you're describing sounds like Micro-marring, DA Haze or Tick Marks. These three names all mean the same thing it's just some people use one over the other to describe what they see after machine polising. I cover all this in my how-to book for what it's worth.



So, what's the secret with black?

The secret with ANY color when it comes to polishing paint starts with abrasive technology. I been typing those two words out for years now and a month or so ago I started a thread on this forum and also posted a poll on my Facebook page and the majority of people on both this forum and on Facebook all agree technique was the number #1 factor.

I'll continue to respectfully disagree with everyone that voted for technique both on Facebook and the forum because I've been there and done that as long or longer than most posting their opinion and I test everything on black paint. I'm hear to tell you that when it comes to polishing scratch-sensitive clearcoats the most important factor is the abrasive technology... not your technique.



Here you can see the circular cloud on the left, almost looks like product on the surface.

Here's your picture, I took 15 seconds to download it and then upload it to your gallery here on AGO so it he picture could be "inserted" instead of "attached" as it makes it easier for everyone to see and discuss.

It's kind of hard to see but I think what I'm seeing is called micro-marring
watermark.php



If I'm seeing it correctly, I drew a line around it....

watermark.php





When you get a chance and after you get your car perfect maybe go vote in the poll.



POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint?




:)
 
i agree with mike that the abrasive tech is everything when polishing paint. i would try mckees 37 line for finishing out. and welcome to the fourm let us know how you make out.... keep on shining
 
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