Coating WITHOUT Correction??

Octopiston said:
So a chef shouldn't make a dish if the customer asks for no onion? After all, his name is on it and if the customer doesn't like it because of the missing ingredients they'll tell everyone.....

Bear in mind that the car being discussed isn't a several year old swirled out wreck.
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Bad analogy. One may ask for an ingredient to not be included in a dish because of a distaste to that ingredient or an allergy.
A better analogy would be to ask a roofer to not remove the old shingles on a roof before putting the new ones on in an effort to save money on a roofing job.
The OP obviously came here to post his question because perhaps it seemed out of the norm.


In Mike's books and training there are 5 steps:
1.) Wash & Dry
2.) Surface Prep (both chemical & mechanical decontaminate)
3.) Polish to a high gloss, creates smoothness - Gloss comes from polishing, not wax or LSP's. Without smoothness, there can be no gloss.
4.) Seal the paint (i.e. some form of an LSP)
5.) Maintain.


Even though these were brand new vehicles, I educated the customer on the importance of proper surface prep before adding a coating:
Part 1:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...16-corvette-stingray-new-car-prep-detail.html
Part 2:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ingray-new-car-prep-detail-2.html#post1404178

And even despite this new Silverado's paint was near flawless to the naked eye, after we started working with the BOSS Perfecting Cream, it made a huge difference.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...2017-chevy-silverado-new-car-prep-detail.html

Every new car prep I do gets some form of correction, either to remove minor scratches and swirls or a polish jewel for a glossy appearance, prior to the LSP.
 
Not a bad analogy, it just didn't fit within your views.

I believe Mike also speaks of meeting customer expectations. Not every customer WANTS their car polished, and yet you're saying we should force it because that is "the steps." I do a lot of wash and waxes with no correction. Why? Because that is what the customer (you know, the person who owns the car and is paying) wants done. If they want the 5 steps I'll do that too, but for most people just so it os clean and shiny that is all they want and all they will pay for.
 
My goal is to make my customers happy as I'm a full time detailer. I give them options, explain the benefits etc. If they don't want their car polished, I wouldn't do it and still coat the car. My goal is customer satisfaction and if my customer just wants the car coated so it's protected, that's what they are getting. Who cares of someone on the internet thinks your a hack if your making money, giving your customers what they want and everyone is happy.
 
Fast Eddie said:
My goal is to make my customers happy as I'm a full time detailer. I give them options, explain the benefits etc. If they don't want their car polished, I wouldn't do it and still coat the car. My goal is customer satisfaction and if my customer just wants the car coated so it's protected, that's what they are getting. Who cares of someone on the internet thinks your a hack if your making money, giving your customers what they want and everyone is happy.
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Do you also explain to your customers that due to improper prep the coating may or may not last longer than a properly prepped waxed protected detail? Because if you did that, I couldn't imagine anyone who would still insist on not prepping the finish the right way. So how do you end up with satisfied customers?
 
tdekany said:
Do you also explain to your customers that due to improper prep the coating may or may not last longer than a properly prepped waxed protected detail? Because if you did that, I couldn't imagine anyone who would still insist on not prepping the finish the right way. So how do you end up with satisfied customers?
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All of my coating jobs are prepped properly and last as advertised by the manufacturer.
 
paul_g said:
Bad analogy. One may ask for an ingredient to not be included in a dish because of a distaste to that ingredient or an allergy.
A better analogy would be to ask a roofer to not remove the old shingles on a roof before putting the new ones on in an effort to save money on a roofing job.
The OP obviously came here to post his question because perhaps it seemed out of the norm.


In Mike's books and training there are 5 steps:
1.) Wash & Dry
2.) Surface Prep (both chemical & mechanical decontaminate)
3.) Polish to a high gloss, creates smoothness - Gloss comes from polishing, not wax or LSP's. Without smoothness, there can be no gloss.
4.) Seal the paint (i.e. some form of an LSP)
5.) Maintain.


Even though these were brand new vehicles, I educated the customer on the importance of proper surface prep before adding a coating:
Part 1:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...16-corvette-stingray-new-car-prep-detail.html
Part 2:
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ingray-new-car-prep-detail-2.html#post1404178

And even despite this new Silverado's paint was near flawless to the naked eye, after we started working with the BOSS Perfecting Cream, it made a huge difference.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...2017-chevy-silverado-new-car-prep-detail.html

Every new car prep I do gets some form of correction, either to remove minor scratches and swirls or a polish jewel for a glossy appearance, prior to the LSP.
Click to expand...
You can talk and talk to the customer,but ultimately he or she is writing you the check.what you stated above is not a example of the roofer.you and I do this everyday and I or you will not turn down 350.00 for a coat job.The line draws if the car needs correction or polish.If you can get by and just coat and the car looks beautiful and the customer is happy all that matters.probably 70 percent or more of members on here don't do this for a living.Gave a guy a quote on a brandnew 16 charger 392 in a orange red color.I would not even clay it that's how perfect it is.380.00 for a couple hrs is making money.Coating a car that needs definite polish is where you draw the line with the customer and just tell them the coating won't work polish needed.I look for simplicity and use my experience knowledge on every car to keep it simple and most importantly make the customer happy.
 
All I know is in any business you need to cover your @$$. It may go against all of what a pro detail is and/or should be but do what she wants. But I would also get something in writing indicating she didn't want any type of correction or polish before hand. I get asked all the time to do things that aren't considered industry accepted practices (IT). For the most I'll do it but via email explain why it's not a good idea and have them reply indicating they understand and it's been discussed. However, there a few things we absolutely won't do no matter what, but that's for another time/forum.
 
tdekany said:
Do you also explain to your customers that due to improper prep the coating may or may not last longer than a properly prepped waxed protected detail? Because if you did that, I couldn't imagine anyone who would still insist on not prepping the finish the right way. So how do you end up with satisfied customers?
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Any customer out there who is informed about how a coating is designed to hold up,more than likely won't skimp on prep work.Nobody has ever asked me to skip all the prep before coating.However did a porche gt4 needed no prep just eraser and coat 400.00 for 5 hrs work.Till this day car looks beautiful and marr free.
 
GSKR said:
Any customer out there who is informed about how a coating is designed to hold up,more than likely won't skimp on prep work.Nobody has ever asked me to skip all the prep before coating.However did a porche gt4 needed no prep just eraser and coat 400.00 for 5 hrs work.Till this day car looks beautiful and marr free.
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That maybe the difference between standards. If you ever polished a car, you'd know the difference it makes. In any case, as I said in an earlier post, it is sad to see these types of posts/replies on a dedicated detailing forum. In the past we used to come here to learn how to do things the RIGHT way and what it took to get the to the highest level, no matter the price point. But here we are in late 2016, and members are going at us for suggesting to do things the right way. Great!
 
Not a pro, just a hobbyist here. But I have owned my own businesses for the last 25 years. The customer is king. You give them what they want and are willing to pay for or they will find someone who will, period. Of course, you give your professional recommendation and advice. Then you let the person writing the check decide.

Nice to see so many wealthy detailers that can tell the customer it's my way or take your business elsewhere. Wish I could blow $400 jobs because I will not deviate from a rigid philosophy.
 
tdekany said:
That maybe the difference between standards. If you ever polished a car, you'd know the difference it makes. In any case, as I said in an earlier post, it is sad to see these types of posts/replies on a dedicated detailing forum. In the past we used to come here to learn how to do things the RIGHT way and what it took to get the to the highest level, no matter the price point. But here we are in late 2016, and members are going at us for suggesting to do things the right way. Great!
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This probably isn't the norm about coating on top of swirls and inferior prep staging.This posted by ranger is more than likely a isolated question with a customer who deosnt want to pay for polishing.I will stand my ground though if you get a car that deosnt need polishing coat it.I would rather get paid 350.00 for 4 hrs of work,then to slave over a car for 9 hrs for a extra 200.If you are fronted with a rare opportunity when you get a new car that deosnt need all that prep work why do it.95 percent of cars need something prior to coat.I know a high end detailer that charges 350.00 for hydro 2 and gets it all day long.Is he a hack absolutely not.He makes sure the customer is happy and works within there budget.
 
MTCarNut said:
Not a pro, just a hobbyist here. But I have owned my own businesses for the last 25 years. The customer is king. You give them what they want and are willing to pay for or they will find someone who will, period. Of course, you give your professional recommendation and advice. Then you let the person writing the check decide.

Nice to see so many wealthy detailers that can tell the customer it's my way or take your business elsewhere. Wish I could blow $400 jobs because I will not deviate from a rigid philosophy.
Click to expand...

You are not getting it. To offer a coating, you take the necessary steps to provide the result to your standards. Maybe you guys are way undercharging for your services and that is why you are skipping steps. Who are your competitions? What do they charge for a traditional polish and protection job where the "wax" is gone in a few weeks? You are offering a coating that should keep the finish in "just detailed" condition for 12/18 months. How much more $$ should your service cost? Why would there "NOT" be a polishing step? In my 15 plus years doing this, not once have I had a customer telling me that they didn't want a particular step for any reason. Again this mentality has nothing to do with rigidity or "my way or the hi way". It is about providing a better quality job than the next guy. But hey, if you are ok with skipping steps, it is not my name on the line.
 
GSKR said:
This probably isn't the norm about coating on top of swirls and inferior prep staging.This posted by ranger is more than likely a isolated question with a customer who deosnt want to pay for polishing.I will stand my ground though if you get a car that deosnt need polishing coat it.I would rather get paid 350.00 for 4 hrs of work,then to slave over a car for 9 hrs for a extra 200.If you are fronted with a rare opportunity when you get a new car that deosnt need all that prep work why do it.95 percent of cars need something prior to coat.I know a high end detailer that charges 350.00 for hydro 2 and gets it all day long.Is he a hack absolutely not.He makes sure the customer is happy and works within there budget.
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Do you know that when you polish a car the finish looks glossier? So if your answer is yes, give me an example when a new car doesn't need a quick polishing step prior to protection? Because they all benefit from it. Why would it take you an extra 5 hours to do a finishing polish step? It doesn't make any sense. 5 hours? You guys should ask Mike Phillips if he ever does what you guys are doing and not polish a car prior to protection.
 
tdekany said:
You are not getting it. To offer a coating, you take the necessary steps to provide the result to your standards. Maybe you guys are way undercharging for your services and that is why you are skipping steps. Who are your competitions? What do they charge for a traditional polish and protection job where the "wax" is gone in a few weeks? You are offering a coating that should keep the finish in "just detailed" condition for 12/18 months. How much more $$ should your service cost? Why would there "NOT" be a polishing step? In my 15 plus years doing this, not once have I had a customer telling me that they didn't want a particular step for any reason. Again this mentality has nothing to do with rigidity or "my way or the hi way". It is about providing a better quality job than the next guy. But hey, if you are ok with skipping steps, it is not my name on the line.
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I get it, but on a brand new car off the transporter its not a given that it will need correction.

Do you think the thousands and thousands of people that pay $1K plus for "paint protection" at the dealership are getting multi-step correction? How many care or even know the difference? They're lucky if they get a single coat of wax for their $1000.
 
MTCarNut said:
I get it, but on a brand new car off the transporter its not a given that it will need correction.

Do you think the thousands and thousands of people that pay $1K plus for "paint protection" at the dealership are getting multi-step correction? How many care or even know the difference? They're lucky if they get a single coat of wax for their $1000.
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So dealers are scam artists, charging coating prices and giving their customers a wax job instead?
 
MTCarNut said:
I get it, but on a brand new car off the transporter its not a given that it will need correction.

Do you think the thousands and thousands of people that pay $1K plus for "paint protection" at the dealership are getting multi-step correction? How many care or even know the difference? They're lucky if they get a single coat of wax for their $1000.
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First of all I wasn't talking about correction. I was suggesting a polishing step. As far as the dealership offerings, of course they are not providing the same quality or proper steps. I've seen It first hand. But why bring up the dealer? I thought this place was frequented by people who wanted to provide superior service over what the stealers provide. I guess I was wrong.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips
I don't ever try to tell people how to run their business, but instead just try to offer some balance to the conversation because as a detailer, one of their goals is to make a profit and multiple step buff jobs take more time and if your customer doesn't know the difference between a swirl and a squirrel then just make their paint clean and shiny and move forward.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../23142-difference-between-swirl-squirrel.html
 
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