Comments from owners of both Griots Garage and PC XP

Rhudeboye

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I've read a lot to try and narrow out my decision on which polisher to get. I do a little detailing on the side and I'm looking for best value to remove swirls. I cant afford the Flex at this point (Seems to be the comment made in every thread). I also noticed that people pretty much simply back what they own. So I keep reading " I'm happy with my PC or my griots is the best. Same said about the megs.

So I would like to hear from those who own at least 2 the Griots Garage and another the PC7424XP or the Megs.


My concerns & Questions:

I have read that the Griots doesnt remove swirls as well as the PC despite it havign a stronger motor. One user simply stated it doesn't remove swirls. This concerns me as this is why buying the machine. Perhaps it was the pad used.

After buying your GG did you go straight to using LC pads and purchase a smaller backing plate?

What were your results going from one to the other. On par, GG better or XP better for swirl and water spot removal.
 
Welcome to AG!

There is absolutely no doubt that the GG has absolutley no problem removing swirls. I am assuming you are talking about the current generation GG... In that case the person who said that it doesn't remove swirls... um:rolleyes:... well I think I'll just push away from the keyboard now :) I've never heard anybody say that :laughing:

I have used a GG but have never used the PC so can't tell you which to get but if it's correcting paint you want the Griots will definetly do that and you do not have to change pad size. You could drop to the 5.5 but it does work with the stock 6.5.

Check out this link... Edit: Mike beat me to it on his links :) see below
 
My concerns & Questions:

I have read that the Griots doesn't remove swirls as well as the PC despite it having a stronger motor.

One user simply stated it doesn't remove swirls. This concerns me as this is why buying the machine. Perhaps it was the pad used.

That's just plain bad information. It's so wrong it's almost laughable.

The person that told you that or if you read that on a forum somewhere might be sharing their "real" experience but that doesn't mean the tool doesn't work, it's more than likely one of these factors,

  1. Wrong technique
  2. Wrong pad
  3. Wrong product
  4. All of the above
I've been using DA Polishers to remove swirls as long as anybody and probably longer than most. I wrote the first exhaustive article on this topic that I know of and also made the first full length video on this topic. I'm pretty confident I've taught more classes and thus more people in person how to use these "types" of tools and I'm here to tell you what you were told or what you heard is just plain wrong.

The Griot's Garage Random Orbital Polisher works almost like a rotary buffer if you use a small diameter pad and hold the pad flat, by this I mean you can't stop the pad from rotating and that's the same action you get from a rotary except that because the GG ROP uses a Free Rotating Spindle Assembly if you do hold the pad crooked the pad will stop rotating and that's the safety feature that separates a DA Polisher from an Rotary Buffer.


After buying your GG did you go straight to using LC pads and purchase a smaller backing plate?

What were your results going from one to the other. On par, GG better or XP better for swirl and water spot removal.

This sure is a popular topic this year. Most of your above questions have already been brought up and discussed and here's the nutshell answer...

The PC has a 30+ year proven reliability factor that the other two might be able to match but some time has to go by first as they are both brand new to the market.

The GG ROP has the most power on paper and on paint, I've used them all and have already posted this dozens of times on this forum and others.

More important than ANYTHING when it comes to removing swirls is using good technique and the techniques are shown in these two videos and explained thoroughly in the how-to article.


How to Remove Swirls and Scratches using the Porter Cable 7424XP



This one is actually the key to the most important step and that's how to make section passes to remove swirls. If you're paint is already flawless then you still want to make 2-3 passes over each square inch like shown in this video only in the real world when you apply a wax or paint sealant you would apply to huge sections at at time. This shows working a small section BECAUSE when you remove swirls out of clear coat paints you ONLY want to work small sections at at time. Working large sections at a time is explained in the above video.

How to do a Section Pass using a Dual Action Polisher - Key to Removing Swirls


Tips and Techniques for using the PC 7424XP Dual Action Polisher to remove Below Surface Defects


In fact, everything covered in the article is covered in the above videos...




:)
 
Welcome to AG.
I haven't use GG but I do own PCXP and for me it does the job just fine. It removes swirls, maybe not as fast as other DA.
 
Mike.

I'll be working on a 97 Land cruiser in Really bad shape. Dark green metalic paint.

2008 Toyota Camry white -very good condition

94 Porsche triple Black -good condition garage queen. Looking to make it great.

You quoted me in post #3 and said its a popular question but you didnt answer it. A lot of post kinda read the same way. I really wanted to hear from owners of at least 2 machines and have them chime in on what they like or dislike about there performance. Motor strength and reliability are not in question as I have already gathered those facts.

I know the Flex is one of the best performers from what I have read. Comments on the Megs PC and GG are not as clear. Owners seem to simply back what they own.
 
Mike.

I'll be working on a 97 Land cruiser in Really bad shape. Dark green metallic paint.

2008 Toyota Camry white -very good condition

94 Porsche triple Black -good condition garage queen. Looking to make it great.

Sounds like a DA style polisher will take care of all of these cars, just adjust your pads and chemicals to meet the condition of the paint and your goal for the paint. A collection of 5.5, 6.5" foam pads for various duties and the Surbuf pads for doing the correction work on the Land Cruiser. The Surbuf pads are thin and it's the thinness factor that makes it easy for ANY DA style polisher to maintain pad rotation and it's when the pad is rotating that paint is removed or in other words, swirls are removed.


You quoted me in post #3 and said its a popular question but you didnt answer it.

I've actually answered this question multiple times on this forum and other forums just in other threads, at first I thought you might have read some of the other threads so I didn't want to post links to them for you to wade through again so here's the pertinent portion...

From page 2 of this thread... but I know I've posted the below in similar threads...

Mike Phillips said:
To be honest, (and this is just my opinion), if two skilled detailers started out in identical situations, that is same tool, same chemicals, same pads, same car with paint in the exact same condition, and then both people started at 8:00am buffing out the car, assuming they worked at the same speed, they would both finish removing the swirls, polishing to a high gloss, applying and removing a wax or paint sealant about the same time at the end of the day.

I don't think one person would finish at noon and the other person would finish at 8:00pm because there's that HUGE of a difference.


Here's the point....

You can't move the polisher QUICKLY over the surface and by doing so speed the process up, you have to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint to allow the combination of pad type, chemical, oscillating action, pressure and time to affect the surface.

By affect the surface I mean remove some paint which is how you remove defects, you level the surface carefully and in a controlled manner.

Moving the polisher quickly won't do anything.

So out of all 3 of the popular DA Polishers, if you use them correctly you're they will all do the job and do it in about the same time.

I don't like to go on record and make specific recommendations because it traps me into a box that I can't get out of and I'm in this business for the long run. I see people join forums, ask a few questions and then we never see them again and that's okay but I'm in this for the long run. I'll leave it to the other forum members to chime in and give you their feedback but as you've found out everyone usually posts they like the one they already own.
That's where our detailing classes come in handy, you can try the different tools out before you buy one.

Here's what I know, a seasoned professional could take any one of these tools and get professional results, so at some level, it's not about the tool it's about you and your skills and ability.

Evaluate the tools and then after much consideration make your best choice and go with it. If you are not getting the results you want and hope for come back to the forum and our track recored is a track record of helping people by tweaking their technique and seeing them through to success.

In most cases, any problems are not problems with the tool but the product choice being used with the tool or technique.


:)
 
LOL no prob.

I've seen your name on every forum I read at so I can only imagine the level of Multi tasking.
 
I think the problem is that many guys buy one tool and stick with it. A credit to the durability of all of them. But not until you go from one to the other can you truely judge the device. i.e. I was using a cordless goodyear impact wrench for a while. When it died I got a hold of a cordless Dewalt impact. WOW! Broke lugs free much quicker and with less fuss. Had more weight but also more power. Battery charge last much longer. Things I wouldnt have know had I not used them both.
 
But not until you go from one to the other can you truely judge the device. i.e. I was using a cordless goodyear impact wrench for a while. When it died I got a hold of a cordless Dewalt impact.

WOW! Broke lugs free much quicker and with less fuss. Had more weight but also more power. Battery charge last much longer.

Things I wouldnt have know had I not used them both.

Very good point.

All three of the DA polishers have more than enough power to keep a pad rotating on the 5.0 and 6.0 Speed Setting and for the most part this is the issue of prime importance as most people hanging out on a forum and moving from hand polishing to machine polishing are

  • Tired of working by hand
  • Want true show car results

All three of the popular DA Polishers will solve these two problems...

Here's a few observation but by no means a complete list...

Meguiar's
The Meguiar's has the slow rev feature which is nice and it also has the cruise control feature. People confuse this feature or circuit as a component that adds more power when you need it but that's not correct, it maintains the power the tool already has, that's different than adding more power.

The Meguiar's comes with a soft-touch or kind of a rubberized coating around the entire tool which is a nice touch. It comes with a hoop handle which some people really like and can be a good thing for Newbies as it helps you to place pressure directly over the head of the polisher which in turn helps you to keep your pad flat against the surface and this is very important for someone new to machine polishing.

The Meguiar's Polisher has nice fit and finish and feels like a quality tool when you hold it and use it.

I've used ALL of the Meguiar's polishers from the time they first introduced THE WORLD to machine polishing with a DA Polisher, (everyone else has simply jumped on the bandwagon, not that this is a bad thing but due credit where credit is due and Meguiar's introduced the car world to the wood sander we all call the PC now days.

See page 1 of this thread...

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-mike-phillips/21476-porter-cable-7424xp.html

Mike Phillips said:
Remember, the Porter Cable Dual Action Polisher was originally introduced as a wood sander. It was introduced to the detailing world as a paint polisher by Meguiar's in the early 1990's. The oldest Brilliant Solutions Catalog I have in my collection goes back to 1995 and it shows it in there. That was long before most of these popular discussion forums even existed, let along the online stores.

Here's some pictures of my oldest catalogs... am trying to find out if there's any older catalogs than this...

The one on the left is from 1995 and the one on the right is from 1996, the catalog from 1995 documents Meguiar's introducing the G100 at least 13 years ago and before this we were showing people in the Professional Trade how to use air powered DA Sanders to polish paint by using our W5500 Foam Polishing Pad, which if you look closely is the actual pad on the Porter Cable unit pictured below, not a W-8006 on a W64 DA Backing Plate.

Photos courtesy of MeguiarsOnline.com
1995BrilSolCat001.jpg


1995BrilSolCat002.jpg



The lettering is kind of fuzzy but you can make out that it says Porter Cable

1995BrilSolCat004.jpg


With a thin piece of sanding paper attached to the backing plate the counterweight might make a difference.

With a comparatively thick foam buffing pad and especially after it becomes wet with product, it doesn't seem to make any difference.

YMMV


Griot's Garage ROP
I was surprised when I first used this tool because I looked at the red color and together with being the new kid on the block I had some assumptions about it that were completely proven false in the first few seconds of turning the polisher on.


It too feels good as far as fit and finish goes and definitely has the most power out of all the tools plus a limited, Lifetime Warranty, someone here on the forum has already contacted Griot's and clarified what the warranty includes and it is a stellar warranty.

I've met Richard Griot and he's the real deal and that gives me confidence in him and his products and also earns my trust as a fellow car guy.

Check out what I wrote here,
Griot's Random Orbital Polisher


and what my good friend Nick Chapman wrote here,
Got a chance to play with the Griots DA for a while....


I've known Nick since when he first got into car detailing and since then he's become a recognized professional and the real deal...



Porter Cable 7424XP
This is the tool that stated it all and sets the standard for reliability. Often times in my life because I tend and trend to work on special interest cars, the owners of these cars won't drive them to you so you have to drive to them. Seems like it's never a short drive either...

So when driving to a long distance customer you want to pack what you need and no more, if for only one reason and that's when you get home and your dog tired you don't what to spend hours unpacking.

I know I could take my Makita Rotary Buffer and my Porter Cable DA Polisher and tackle anything that comes my way and feel confident the tool would hold up over the course of the job.

I've run my Makita in over 100 degree temperatures all day long where the buffer was so hot I couldn't hold onto it without a glove and you could smell the plastic around the electrical wires burning and it never let me down.

My old trusty, dusty Makita Rotary Buffer
MetalWornAwayAfterYearsOfBuffing.jpg




I've run PC's in the same way and never been let down. I've worn a couple out, but that's after years of abuse and that's why if you detail cars professionally it's a good idea to have a back-up anytime you're driving long distances to a customer's location.


Below: On location, over 100 miles away from home during the video shoot of How to use the PC for Show Car Results.

60VettePolishingShot.jpg


This is a true and accurate statement...

If it can go wrong... it will go wrong...

Pack a back-up if your a mobile detailer, that's not to say the PC is not reliable as it is, it's just common sense to be a good Boy Scout and always be prepared...

:)
 
Nice write up's you seem to be happy with them all. I'm still leaning towards the Griots. Considering the warranty and motor it seems to be the best value. Their $199 bundle looks pretty good.
 
Okay, this is coming from a guy who's used the Griot's, the PCXP AND the flex.

The Griot's is BY FAR the most powerful of the 3 and will give the most defect removal on flat panels, period.

The Flex is the most refined and predictable of the 3 and will replicate fantastic results no matter what angle or surface you're using it on though it is limited by the fact that it can't use different backing plates.

The PCXP...yeah, I'm not even remotely impressed with it in terms of power or correction ability. It barely feels more powerful than the original and my Griot's runs CIRCLES around it when it comes to correction ability. In order to keep pads rotating you almost HAVE to move down to a smaller backing plate and pad if you plan on using any pressure at all.

I have used my replacement warranty on my Griot's once already due to an issue with the c-clip in the bearing assembly bending and allowing approx. 1/8" of wobbling play in the backing plate, but I had a new machine in the mail to me with just a quick phone call to Autogeek.

I haven't used the GX110v2 yet, but none of the reviews have shown that it's in the same class as either the Flex or the Griot's. Both the GX110v2 and the PCXP are probably very close to one another in power and correction ability, but between the Griot's and the PCXP there is absolutely NO comparison what-so-ever. They aren't even close to having the same abilities. The Griot's is by far the superior tool of the two, even with the PCXP's stellar reputation.

If you had the money, I'd say get the Flex. Since you're trying to decide between two "true" DA polishers, then my advice for you is to go with the Griot's. It truly is a very short step behind a rotary in it's correction ability with the Flex following VERY closely behind, if not right beside it, due to it's power limitations and lower OPMs compared to the Griot's. I have used all 3. Hope this helps.
 
The Griot's is BY FAR the most powerful of the 3 and will give the most defect removal on flat panels, period.


Vindicated.

Thanks for chiming in... I've actually equated the GG ROP to "effectively" work like a rotary on this forum and other forums and seems like no one ever picks up on that comment? (I just find it interesting knowing how forum folks like to discuss things) :D

By this I mean,if you keep the pad flat, (that's using good technique), you really can't stop the pad from rotating as long as you're not applying a ridiculous amount of pressure, so much pressure you would start to bend sheet-metal.

Now you combine the GG ROP with a 5.5" CCS or Flat cutting pad, (these pads or thinner than the 6.5" pads and

Thin pads = easier for DA to rotate = closer to the correction ability of a Rotary Buffer


The new pad getting all the attention is the one Kevin Brown discovered about 5-6 years ago and that's the Surbuf pads. These are very thin pads and together with the GG ROP with M105 and you're talking about some serious correction power.

I would disagree with you in a friendly way on the PC 7424XP as I've used the PC 7424 and PC 7336 and the Meguiar's re-branded versions as long or longer than most people and they have a substantial improvement in their ability to keep a ad rotating.

I've done quite a bit of side by side testing where all parameters are kept identical, that is, pad, backing plate, extension cord, chemical, flatness of panel, downward pressure and all of the new 2nd generation DA Polishers have much better ability to keep pads rotating than first generation DA Polishers.


Time to push away for the day...


:)
 
Vindicated.

Thanks for chiming in... I've actually equated the GG ROP to "effectively" work like a rotary on this forum and other forums and seems like no one ever picks up on that comment? (I just find it interesting knowing how forum folks like to discuss things) :D

By this I mean,if you keep the pad flat, (that's using good technique), you really can't stop the pad from rotating as long as you're not applying a ridiculous amount of pressure, so much pressure you would start to bend sheet-metal.

Now you combine the GG ROP with a 5.5" CCS or Flat cutting pad, (these pads or thinner than the 6.5" pads and

Thin pads = easier for DA to rotate = closer to the correction ability of a Rotary Buffer


The new pad getting all the attention is the one Kevin Brown discovered about 5-6 years ago and that's the Surbuf pads. These are very thin pads and together with the GG ROP with M105 and you're talking about some serious correction power.

I would disagree with you in a friendly way on the PC 7424XP as I've used the PC 7424 and PC 7336 and the Meguiar's re-branded versions as long or longer than most people and they have a substantial improvement in their ability to keep a ad rotating.

I've done quite a bit of side by side testing where all parameters are kept identical, that is, pad, backing plate, extension cord, chemical, flatness of panel, downward pressure and all of the new 2nd generation DA Polishers have much better ability to keep pads rotating than first generation DA Polishers.


Time to push away for the day...


:)

Your review of the Surbuf pads was actually the entire reason I ordered 6 of them yesterday. :D I can't wait to get my grubby mitts on them and get a review up here especially after the issues I had with the Hydro-tech pads.

I'll concede that the PCXP is more powerful than the previous model (though not to the extreme that the Griot's is), but it's no where near the same class of machine as either the Griot's or the Flex. I used it yesterday and today and let Jonathan use my Griot's (the PCXP is his) and he said the same thing.

I loved my old PC7424 until I discovered the Griot's. The 7424 was a great learning tool and offered a fantastic introductory machine to the world of high-end detailing, but even the new model can't compare to the two front-runners of the DA world right now. I was really hoping it was at least close, but I was pretty sadly disappointed when I had it in my hands on speed 6 with a 5.5" pad and hardly any pressure on a flat surface and I could see the pad almost stop spinning completely. :( My Griot's with a 6.5" pad on speed 6 is almost impossible to stop without actually picking up and working on just the edge of the pad.

And I'm with you Mike. It's late, I'm tired and I should already be sleeping. lol Good night and see you all tomorrow!
 
I own the Flex 3401, and Griot's 6" random orbital. I've tried the G110v2 for about 30 minutes. I've tried the PCXP for about 15 minutes. My favorite out of all 4.....drumroll........................Griot's 6" ROP!! :)

Here's my ranking from favorite to least:

1. Griot's
2. Flex
3. G110v2
4. PCXP

3 and 4 are a good distance from 1 and 2

By the Griot's a 5" backing plate and 5.5" LC pads and don't look back. FWIW, the Griot's can spin 6.5" pads with *no problem*, but a lot of people prefer 5.5" pads, including myself.
 
I own the Flex 3401, and Griot's 6" random orbital. I've tried the G110v2 for about 30 minutes. I've tried the PCXP for about 15 minutes. My favorite out of all 4.....drumroll........................Griot's 6" ROP!! :)

Here's my ranking from favorite to least:

1. Griot's
2. Flex
3. G110v2
4. PCXP

3 and 4 are a good distance from 1 and 2

By the Griot's a 5" backing plate and 5.5" LC pads and don't look back. FWIW, the Griot's can spin 6.5" pads with *no problem*, but a lot of people prefer 5.5" pads, including myself.

I was hoping you'd make that public one day. heh ;) I want a Flex in my arsenal simply because of it predictability and refinement, but for correction, I'll stick with my GG.

GG will DO the job!!! I own a couple of them.

I too shall be ordering a second GG ROP in the very near future if business keeps going the way it's going now. I need to get a pretty serious pad collection going as soon as possible though. lol
 
1. The Griot's is BY FAR the most powerful of the 3 and will give the most defect removal on flat panels, period.

2. The Flex... is limited by the fact that it can't use different backing plates.

3. you almost HAVE to move down to a smaller backing plate and pad if you plan on using any pressure at all.

4. the Griot's. It truly is a very short step behind a rotary in it's correction ability with the


VERY VERY HELPFUL. This should be a sticky!

Points 2 - 4 are all new to me. It's the kind of straight talk I was looking for.

Thanx a mil :dblthumb2:
 
:iagree:

This is a good thread. I am signed up to attend the machine polishing class in April, so I am looking forward to trying out the machines for myself.

I'm actually looking for a polisher that gets the job done with the LEAST noise, as I will be using it outdoors in close proximity to my neighbors. I'm hoping to find a unit that has a mix of functionality and is (relatively) quiet.

Thanks for all the good info -
 
VERY VERY HELPFUL. This should be a sticky!

Points 2 - 4 are all new to me. It's the kind of straight talk I was looking for.

Thanx a mil :dblthumb2:
Have you ordered it yet. If not get it done and get started. You wont regret it.

I own an old PC and a GG. I love them both. The GG will spank the old PC, but, it will still do the job. I use it with 4 in pads and the GG with 5.5.

Griots will back their products. I have been a satisfied customer for about 8 years. Any problem (very few) has been resolved without issue.
 
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