Detailing with only one pad

cardaddy said:
I made a statement, based on what we all already know. That is, you can use less pads for polishing than for compounding, but less doesn't mean ONE.



Can you do it with ONE? I reckon.





For instance... are you going to use that pad that polished behind your wheels, at the bottom of your door, along your rocker panels, on your ROOF? You might clean it, but I'd not use it down low, then high as well. I'd do all the work up high, then take my 'used' pads and do the bumpers, down low, then rockers. One for the front bumper, one for each side, and I reckon one of those for the back bumper.
Click to expand...


Hey, I decided to put this little debate to the test today on my own car. I didn't want to post it until I made sure everything was understood as fine between communication and stuff.. Basically I wanted to make sure this didn't come off the wrong way or offensive to anyone because that's not at all how it's intended to be, I just thought it'd be interesting to find out how it went in a real life situation, with a similar product to boot..

Meguars Black Wax AIO should be comparable enough to HD Speed AIO. The goal was 1 polishing pad, 6.5"on the G21, clean on the fly w/brush & terry towel by my side. I ran the polisher @ speed 4.5 the whole way though, normL/moderate pressure, worked every section a good long while. [I wasn't simply spreading wax, worked it more like you would a normL polish/compound across the whole car]

I had to clay the hood but all other panels were smooth after a waterless wash with D114.

Ok so here's what I'm working with. Pic just before I got started. Notice I only have 2 polishing pads available atm. The sealed 1 is brand new and unused.

View attachment 41952

Ready to begin.

View attachment 41953

Here's what the pad looks like after polishing half the hood & fender. [before cleaning on the fly]

View attachment 41954

And yes, since I had to stick to the plan, I used the same pad to polish under the belt line/rocker panels. No easy way out.

View attachment 41955

Clean on the fly, and proceed to the trunk.

View attachment 41956

Speed 4.5 non stop.

View attachment 41957

Black Wax doing it's thing..

View attachment 41958

Here's how the pad & terry towel looked halfway through the car.

View attachment 41959

Ok here's where things get interesting. The whole drivers side of my car is a re paint [prior to me owning the car] and I've never been able to truly polish this side of the car due to this paint simply being sort of crazy.. The 1 time I attempted to compound the scratches out they somehow began getting worse instead of better.. It's like I was revealing the hell below. But since it's Light Green Metalic paint [equivelent to metalic silver] most people can't usually see the horrible condition this side of the car is actually in.

It wasn't easy finding a good picture of this mess, but here I found an example on the drivers door. Keep these nasty scraches in mind to give you a real idea of the kind of pressure I was putting down in order to eventually fill these defects w/the Black Wax.

View attachment 41960

Worked this whole side with extra passion due to the nasty defects I was up against.

View attachment 41963

Wax applied.

View attachment 41964

Ok almost done.. Last panel, I left half the hood for last as I worked all the way around.

View attachment 41962

Here's the pad just before the final portion of the hood. It hasn't exploded, dissinegrated, burned up, or whatever it was supposed to be in danger of doing. Pfftt...

View attachment 41965

Ok, made it though without much of a sweat. 1 pad did every panel, including the rear mirrors, only part I skipped was the front bottom bumper. Is the pad toast? Yea it's definitely reached it's point.. But it made it!

View attachment 41967

According to the naysayers we should have a degraded final result on the right side of the hood afterwards. Due to all the dangers we just put 1 pad through😜 Time to wipe off and see the results.

View attachment 41966

Remember the drivers door? This is how the whole right side of the car looked since the day I bought it.

View attachment 41968

After:

View attachment 41969

View attachment 41971

Same spot, after:

View attachment 41970

I had never thought of using an AIO to fill these defects and polish out this paint until now.. This side has never seen gloss quite like this until now. After using Megs Black Wax w/G21, Scratches are filled.👍🏽

View attachment 41972

Car came out great, even with using just 1 pad on speed 4.5 moderate pressure, heavy defects on the whole right side of vehicle completely removed/filled.. As GSKR, Detailing by M, and myself easily predicted, it was a piece of cake.👌🏼[please don't confuse this as a recommendation]

1 pad. Good day. Thx for reading, good luck to OP on your 1st full detail.👍🏽
 
JoeyGT said:
...
For removing light to moderate swirls and imperfections, should I be starting with the white pad, or just go ahead and use the orange?...
Click to expand...

Remember, ALWAYS LEAST AGGRESIVE first.

Bill
 
Eldorado2k said:
Hey, I decided to put this little debate to the test today on my own car. I didn't want to post it until I made sure everything was understood as fine between communication and stuff.. Basically I wanted to make sure this didn't come off the wrong way or offensive to anyone because that's not at all how it's intended to be, I just thought it'd be interesting to find out how it went in a real life situation, with a similar product to boot..

Meguars Black Wax AIO should be comparable enough to HD Speed AIO. The goal was 1 polishing pad, 6.5"on the G21, clean on the fly w/brush & terry towel by my side. I ran the polisher @ speed 4.5 the whole way though, normL/moderate pressure, worked every section a good long while. [I wasn't simply spreading wax, worked it more like you would a normL polish/compound across the whole car]

I had to clay the hood but all other panels were smooth after a waterless wash with D114.

Ok so here's what I'm working with. Pic just before I got started. Notice I only have 2 polishing pads available atm. The sealed 1 is brand new and unused.

View attachment 41952

Ready to begin.

View attachment 41953

Here's what the pad looks like after polishing half the hood & fender. [before cleaning on the fly]

View attachment 41954

And yes, since I had to stick to the plan, I used the same pad to polish under the belt line/rocker panels. No easy way out.

View attachment 41955

Clean on the fly, and proceed to the trunk.

View attachment 41956

Speed 4.5 non stop.

View attachment 41957

Black Wax doing it's thing..

View attachment 41958

Here's how the pad & terry towel looked halfway through the car.

View attachment 41959

Ok here's where things get interesting. The whole drivers side of my car is a re paint [prior to me owning the car] and I've never been able to truly polish this side of the car due to this paint simply being sort of crazy.. The 1 time I attempted to compound the scratches out they somehow began getting worse instead of better.. It's like I was revealing the hell below. But since it's Light Green Metalic paint [equivelent to metalic silver] most people can't usually see the horrible condition this side of the car is actually in.

It wasn't easy finding a good picture of this mess, but here I found an example on the drivers door. Keep these nasty scraches in mind to give you a real idea of the kind of pressure I was putting down in order to eventually fill these defects w/the Black Wax.

View attachment 41960

Worked this whole side with extra passion due to the nasty defects I was up against.

View attachment 41963

Wax applied.

View attachment 41964

Ok almost done.. Last panel, I left half the hood for last as I worked all the way around.

View attachment 41962

Here's the pad just before the final portion of the hood. It hasn't exploded, dissinegrated, burned up, or whatever it was supposed to be in danger of doing. Pfftt...

View attachment 41965

Ok, made it though without much of a sweat. 1 pad did every panel, including the rear mirrors, only part I skipped was the front bottom bumper. Is the pad toast? Yea it's definitely reached it's point.. But it made it!

View attachment 41967

According to the naysayers we should have a degraded final result on the right side of the hood afterwards. Due to all the dangers we just put 1 pad through😜 Time to wipe off and see the results.

View attachment 41966

Remember the drivers door? This is how the whole right side of the car looked since the day I bought it.

View attachment 41968

After:

View attachment 41969

View attachment 41971

Same spot, after:

View attachment 41970

I had never thought of using an AIO to fill these defects and polish out this paint until now.. This side has never seen gloss quite like this until now. After using Megs Black Wax w/G21, Scratches are filled.👍🏽

View attachment 41972

Car came out great, even with using just 1 pad on speed 4.5 moderate pressure, heavy defects on the whole right side of vehicle completely removed/filled.. As GSKR, Detailing by M, and myself easily predicted, it was a piece of cake.👌🏼[please don't confuse this as a recommendation]

1 pad. Good day. Thx for reading, good luck to OP on your 1st full detail.👍🏽
Click to expand...

Eldorado2k, you are the man! Thank you for taking your time to test the "1 pad theory" and prove to us all that using one pad throughout an entire polishing session will not cause it to burst into flames. :rolleyes: I greatly appreciate your time and effort, and I am sure the rest of AG does too.

According to my earlier post, I now have 4 Orange and 4 White pads to use on my first detail. From this thread, I have learned that the pad used for the bottom half of the car should NOT be used on the top portion.

One question that I have is, will the pads that I use for this detail (HD Speed & HD Poxy) be rendered useless and have to be tossed once I am done, or can they still be used for future detailing projects? :buffing:
 
CarolinasFinestDetailing said:
Detailing with one pad per step can be done and I do it often. How? A good pad washer and constant scrubbing the pad.
Click to expand...

How do you get the pad dry enough to continue polishing with the same pad?? Just seems if the pad is the least bit damp it will generate more heat.
 
Could one probably do an entire car with one pad, as demonstrated above? Probably... Would you get the maximum desired results? That depends.... What are your desired results?

With my most recent customer, the dealership destroyed his Merc. The paint was typical 040 Black Mercedes. After doing just half the hood with a new fresh Yellow CCS pad, I could tell when it just wasn't cutting anymore, and when the performance was trailing off.

I stopped and inspected after each section pass with my Flex light and LED work lights. Once a pad was caked, heavy with product, I knew it's performance was degraded, thus I kept switching out. I could visually see if it was cutting anymore.

In total, I used 8 Yellow LC CCS pads for correction, 1 Orange Boss (for test), 1 Orange LC CSS (for test), 4 LC CCS White Pads for finishing. Changing pads made a huge difference. And at the end of the day when all were washed, they looked new again. I didn't beat the heck out of a single pad.

My customer paid good money to have the car he felt should have been delivered to him by the dealer, and I spared no expense in pad usage or product usage in delivering that quality.

Remember, the correction happens with BOTH pad & product working together. Also, a lot of heat is generated between the pad and the tool, along with the residue product on that pad.

If you're doing your own car and want to skimp... That's one thing, getting paid to deliver results is another.

........Mileage may vary

For the definitive answer and great article on this topic follow this link to Mike Phillips answers "How Many Pads.....":
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...-how-many-pads-do-i-need-buff-out-my-car.html
 
The thing about his demo is that he used his well maintained vehicle as the test bed. It would be a more realistic test if one were to use a severely neglected vehicle as the test bed. Something with severe swirls and oxidation. That would require more aggression to correct thus exerting more wear and tear on the pad.

Something perhaps like this:








I go back to my original post, why would you use only one pad. Changing pads often reduces the wear on the pad and increases the longevity along with assuring consistent results.
 
I used three pads on that truck and cleaned on the fly. No matter what you do you reach a point of product saturation and the pad becomes clogged up and ineffective.



 
@Eldorado2k;

I *did not* call *you* cheap. I simply replied to the thread.. Heck, you yourself said you use 4 polishing pads! :D

What I *SAID*, and repeated it by quoting MYSELF was "WHY would you want to risk it all by being cheap and not spending a whole SIX bucks for a second pad". Then I also said pads are 6 for $35.99. Don't believe me?

Lake Country 5 1/2 x 7/8 inch Beveled Edge Pads 6 Pack, foam pad kit, build a kit, buffing pads, curved edge pads
That's $35.99 / 6 = $5.998 (or $6.00) per pad.

Not to mention, on any given day you'll get AT LEAST a 15% off sale here at Autogeek, making those 6 pads $30.59. That's $5.09 each! IF that's too much, not hard to wait for a 20% sale either, being as they happen every couple months. ;)

As for your foray into waxing your car with a single pad. Good going. :dblthumb2: Could break out one of the old "wax spreaders" and done an entire vehicle as well. Think we've all done that more often than not. Heck, I'll spread sealant or wax with a really soft red pad and not worry about it. :props:

Getting back on topic....

I'd say that Megs Black Wax isn't near the product that HD Speed is, likely protection and especially cut. By your own statement, several times over in fact... you said you were "filling". That's not the same as "correcting". Not even close.

As long as everything is shiny, filled, and slick... it's all good huh. ;)

As Paul G said:
"Would you get the maximum desired results? That depends.... What are your desired results? "

Or as my Mother used to say: "Different strokes for different folks." ;)

I'm happy you're happy.

Looking at that pad though, even halfway through... that's farther than I'd have taken it.:eek: In shot 3 there is already caked product in the pad, shot 8 it's worse, pad is really loaded, and in desperate need of a good cleaning. Then by shot 20 it'd have turned out MUCH differently had you not been spreading wax on paint that isn't as hard as your, (and my) GM paint is. WHEW! :eek:


Not saying the WELL used one won't ever work again, just that it'll be different once it's "been rode hard, and put up wet" than one that's been not pushed to it's limit. (Which is another reason to rotate them, as it SAVES you money in the long run.) Some of my favorite CCS pads are orange ones that I've used for hours and hours and hours. The impressions in them are barely there anymore, but the MIDDLE of them is still as compliant as it was day-one. They've not been overheated, not collapsing, backing not melted, not frayed around the edges. Just used, well cared for pads, that have never done more than a panel without stopping, that do the work, first time, every time.


Then I have an orange flat pad that I walked away from a guy long enough to take a potty break and grab a glass of tea that he melted doing the front fender of a F350 and trying to go down ONE door! It go so hot it almost destroyed the backing plate!!! Last thing I told him when I went in the house was KEEP UP WITH THE HEAT. That pad literally did one section on the hood (I'd primed it and got him started). Then cleaned on the fly and handed it over to him to do the fender, ONE SECTION at a time.

He was working with Menz 2000 (or it might have been 2500). Getting a AIO type job done. Not looking for total correction as it's his work truck. It's a white truck, gold trim with big ol' honkin' 20's, sitting on a 4" lift, 4WD, with DEF delete. Many people would call that a 'polish', and it generated enough heat with a GG6 to destroy a pad. It WAS correcting with the same (orange pads) on the left side, hood, and even that front right fender. I came out and looked at the door and he was just going at it, but when I wiped to check it wasn't doing NEAR the correction that the fender had. Went and unplugged the machine to get his attention. Handed him the inspection light and had him look at his work... he looked at his fender and smiled. Then he started down the door, got to where you'd hang your arm out behind the mirror and got this puzzled look on his face. I turned to him and asked what was wrong. Of course he said it didn't look the same.

That's when I took the buffer from his hands, ever go gently removed the pad from the STEAMING backing plate, and showed him that the middle of it was about melt through!


I understand that the BOSS pads are $10 each, I get that. Of course they come in 2-packs, so that makes it even MORE confusing why one wouldn't use both of them. :dunno: I mean... the other one is just sitting there. Once one of them gets used so much, and the other one doesn't. So much so that the difference between the two, come next time you want to use it, WILL be noticeable. Working in pairs, having a 'matching' pair serves ya' better down the road. FIFO isn't just a dream. :laughing:

BTW... the BOSS pads might seem expensive, but not as much so as the Rupes pads! :rolleyes:

I have every color of those, and believe you me... I will ALWAYS swap them out regularly, rather than thing about risking damage to those gold plated puppies. :D

I *have* done an entire vehicle (polish not fill) with a single pad. Which was actually the second step of a 2-step. But that was done over the course of DAYS, not HOURS. Had time been an issue, I'd never had done it that way. I just didn't want to pull out a bucket of pads and deal with them, so I did it the cheap way. (Figuring it wasn't a paying customer, so what the hey.) ;)

I did the hood first, cleaning on the fly after each section. (Six sections to the hood.) Then cleaned the pad with cleaner, spun it out, let it dry sitting on a fan laying horizontal whilst I had a nice cold one. Came back and did the front fenders, 2 sections each, cleaning on the fly. Again, washed it, let it dry overnight that time. Next day did the roof, washed, dried. Rested for a spell, grabbed a cold drink, went back and did the door, cleaning on the fly (2 sections), did the quarter panel (3 sections).
Washed it again, sit it on the fan. Called it a day. Day three, finished the car, did the other side, door, quarter panel.
All in all... three days... ONE pad. :nomore:

(Well... did break out a 4" pad for the front bumper, and another one for the rear if that counts.) :laughing:
 
What kills my pads, is getting too aggressive with the pad conditioning brush, and the wear generated at the velcro interface.

To remedy this I began using a microfiber towel instead of a terry to wipe off residue. The microfiber is better at grabbing and holding. It also doesn't leave lint in the pores of my pads. After that I'll graze the brush over the pad face to dislodge any particulates. I also graze before wiping the pad off as well.

If I need more cleaning power, a spritz of Meguiar's M34 Final Inspection aides in breaking up the residue for situation where there is a lot of build up. Another advantage is, M34 is what I use to prime my pads.

I have a set of Hex Logic pads that finally, after three years of abuse "gave up the ghost". The foam is still usable, buy the velcro is trashed. 2 green cutting, and 2 blue polishing. The red waxing pad is fine, and is now teamed with a new set of cutting / polishing pads.

How they sit in the "mini kit".
 
cardaddy said:
As for your foray into waxing your car with a single pad. Good going. :dblthumb2: Could break out one of the old "wax spreaders" and done an entire vehicle as well. Think we've all done that more often than not. Heck, I'll spread sealant or wax with a really soft red pad and not worry about it. :props:

Getting back on topic....

I'd say that Megs Black Wax isn't near the product that HD Speed is, likely protection and especially cut. By your own statement, several times over in fact... you said you were "filling". That's not the same as "correcting". Not even close.
Click to expand...


I stated that I was not merely spreading wax [I treated it more like I was doing a normL polish/compound] The condition of the drivers side of my car, along with the fact the scratches were filled/corrected should be enough to prove that...

As far as Megs Black Wax not being near the product HD Speed is? Why not? HD Speed is an AIO with fillers is it not? If 1 wanted/expected swirls & defects to truly be eliminated wouldn't 1 go for HD Cut instead? HD Speed fills, same way Megs Black Wax does.. Does/can it truly correct? Yes, but in most cases it's filling 1st, and that's not a surprise.

I wouldn't grab a bottle of HD Speed for a job in which the goal was full correction, would you? Wouldn't you be selling yourself short using an AIO that contains fillers?
 
cardaddy said:
I understand that the BOSS pads are $10 each, I get that. Of course they come in 2-packs, so that makes it even MORE confusing why one wouldn't use both of them. :dunno: I mean... the other one is just sitting there. Once one of them gets used so much, and the other one doesn't. So much so that the difference between the two, come next time you want to use it, WILL be noticeable. Working in pairs, having a 'matching' pair serves ya' better down the road. FIFO isn't just a dream. :laughing:
Click to expand...


The main reason I didn't want to use the other 1 is because Megs Black Wax is sort of difficult to completely clean off of pads.. Even using pad cleaner, the pad remains visably different and somewhat "stained" by the Black Wax.. That's the main reason I didn't want to use the other pad. I'd rather keep the other pad virgin, just in case I have an actual paying job that comes up before I get more pads on hand..

View attachment 42013
 
JoeyGT said:
Eldorado2k, you are the man! Thank you for taking your time to test the "1 pad theory" and prove to us all that using one pad throughout an entire polishing session will not cause it to burst into flames. :rolleyes: I greatly appreciate your time and effort, and I am sure the rest of AG does too.



According to my earlier post, I now have 4 Orange and 4 White pads to use on my first detail. From this thread, I have learned that the pad used for the bottom half of the car should NOT be used on the top portion.



One question that I have is, will the pads that I use for this detail (HD Speed & HD Poxy) be rendered useless and have to be tossed once I am done, or can they still be used for future detailing projects? :buffing:
Click to expand...


Thanks!😃
And yes that is something good to keep in mind when rotating pads. [similar to how you would use a mitt when washing your car]

No, the pads will not be rendered useless after your 1st detail, far from it. The only thing you may notice is that the pad you use to apply sealant may be a bit hard/near impossible to fully get clean. [depending on what sealant you use] So you may want to limit the amount of pads you dedicate towards spreading your sealant..

Another tip: Clean the pads the same night you use them with plain warm water in the sink and simply massage the compound/polish out of them with your fingers. As long as you haven't allowed the product to sit more than a day it comes out easily with just plain water. Allow to air dry and they'll be ready to go for a very long time.
 
Eldorado2k said:
I wouldn't grab a bottle of HD Speed for a job in which the goal was full correction, would you? Wouldn't you be selling yourself short using an AIO that contains fillers?
Click to expand...

What leads you to believe HD Speed contains fillers? I have not seen "filling" behavior from Speed nor seen anything from HD indicating it contains fillers.
 
ski2 said:
What leads you to believe HD Speed contains fillers? I have not seen "filling" behavior from Speed nor seen anything from HD indicating it contains fillers.
Click to expand...

I have used it on my fathers 11Edge and when finished looked flawless, after 2 weeks I washed it and after drying I noticed some swirls were there. You could tell they were polished by the softer edges.
 
@ski2. Everything I've read about HD Speed indicates a common understanding that it contains fillers.

WRAPT C5Z06 said:
David Fremani says it doesn't have fillers....LOL! Yeah right!
Click to expand...

In this video review of HD Speed, Darren from Auto Fetish states @1:30 that yes, it's pretty obvious it contains fillers, but that's not a bad thing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrsLtDSzb4

TBO, it better contain fillers, because if it doesn't, I'll have no use for it.
I'm not interested in fully correcting daily drivers which will go back to being swirled up in no time by their owners.. And top it off, I've heard it's layer of protection is nothing to write home about. I can live with the last part, I guess.. But with a product such as an AIO, I prefer it to be doing more filling vs. correcting.
 
Eldorado2k said:
@ski2. Everything I've read about HD Speed indicates a common understanding that it contains fillers.



In this video review of HD Speed, Darren from Auto Fetish states @1:30 that yes, it's pretty obvious it contains fillers, but that's not a bad thing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnrsLtDSzb4

TBO, it better contain fillers, because if it doesn't, I'll have no use for it.
I'm not interested in fully correcting daily drivers which will go back to being swirled up in no time by their owners.. And top it off, I've heard it's layer of protection is nothing to write home about. I can live with the last part, I guess.. But with a product such as an AIO, I prefer it to be doing more filling vs. correcting.
Click to expand...

Take what that guy says with a grain of salt.

He just says his name 300 times in his videos, and talks about nothing what the title of the video says.

He actually says the meguiars microfiber da system is mis leading because only a rotary can do true correction work, and da can only achieve enhancement. And remove minor defects.

He seems like a nice guy and I am not much of a basher, but watch his review on the Griots Garage 6 inch he says that, and the meguiars microfiber correction system can only enhance and not correct lol.
 
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
Take what that guy says with a grain of salt.

He just says his name 300 times in his videos, and talks about nothing what the title of the video says.

He actually says the meguiars microfiber da system is mis leading because only a rotary can do true correction work, and da can only achieve enhancement. And remove minor defects.

He seems like a nice guy and I am not much of a basher, but watch his review on the Griots Garage 6 inch he says that, and the meguiars microfiber correction system can only enhance and not correct lol.
Click to expand...

Darren did come back, and recant that statement.

I give him props for admitting when he's mis-spoken.
 
dlc95 said:
What kills my pads, is getting too aggressive with the pad conditioning brush, and the wear generated at the velcro interface.

To remedy this I began using a microfiber towel instead of a terry to wipe off residue. The microfiber is better at grabbing and holding. It also doesn't leave lint in the pores of my pads. After that I'll graze the brush over the pad face to dislodge any particulates. I also graze before wiping the pad off as well.

If I need more cleaning power, a spritz of Meguiar's M34 Final Inspection aides in breaking up the residue for situation where there is a lot of build up. Another advantage is, M34 is what I use to prime my pads.

I have a set of Hex Logic pads that finally, after three years of abuse "gave up the ghost". The foam is still usable, buy the velcro is trashed. 2 green cutting, and 2 blue polishing. The red waxing pad is fine, and is now teamed with a new set of cutting / polishing pads.

How they sit in the "mini kit".
Click to expand...

How do the BnS flat green and blue compare to the hex green and blue, same foam,same cut?
 
Zubair said:
How do the BnS flat green and blue compare to the hex green and blue, same foam,same cut?
Click to expand...

They're the same. My 4" pads are just the b&s flats. I prefer the cuts in the face though. They run cooler, and smoother.
 
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