Disasters while detailing this week... Advice needed/sought!

Radarryan

Radarryan

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Well, let's just say that there were a series of disasters that happened this week while I was detailing my 2013 Porsche 911 Carbriolet. I will give a rundown of what I did, and then hopefully the forum can chime in and let me know what I did wrong so myself and others may learn.

First, I washed the car using proper methods and a foam gun. No problems yet and the car looked fantastic. I should note that I was performing a full detail to prepare the surface for Opti-Coat 2.0.

After the washing I decided I was going to clay bar the car because there were some (not a lot) embedded surface contaminants. This is where the problems started...

First, I am no stranger to claying - I've been doing it for close to 8 or more years. This time, however, the clay marred the paint. I was using Meguiar's OTC clay bar kit, so I know the clay was very gentile. I started by doing a small section on the hood of the 911 where the clear bra is (the clear bra is on the entire front clip.) Sure enough, after a small section was complete, there was significant marring done. I was using specific clay lube, but I also tried with quick detailer and a waterless wash. Same result. At first, I thought, "well, maybe it's the PPF." So I did it on another panel and there was marring as well. My thought is that maybe Porsche paint is super soft (my car is flat black) and I will no longer be able to clay without risk of marring. Is this the case?

After this I decided that I would stop claying and start polishing the mars out of the paint. My first step was using Optimum Finish Polish with a grey finishing pad but this was not strong enough. Then I pulled out the Optimum Polish II with a white polish pad, but this instilled more swirls and holograms into the clear bra and bare paint. Needless to say, I was freaking out.

I found that using the Polish II with the white finish pad caused some swirls to be instilled in parts of paint. Other parts finished nicely, but something happened, either to the pad or something, to cause these defects. I have watched countless videos and feel like my form is not the issue, though others may disagree.

I followed up the entire car with Polish II and Finish, getting most everything out. The clear bra, though, was a different story. Every time I tried to polish it out, it seemed like it made it worse. This is not a cheap clear bra, it is supposed to be 3M brand and can be polished just like a clear. The entire front clip cost me $1,500 (it was done by the dealer prior to me taking delivery.)

I then decided to cut my losses and apply the opti-coat 2.0 to the surfaces. It looks great in the sun, however when I put the halogen on it in the garage, you can see some scratches/swirls. Doesn't look bad at all, in fact my dad said he never has seen a car so shiny, but I know they're there, which bums me out. So I've sealed in some swirls/scratches. Maybe one day I'll polish everything out again, and try over but right now I'm just angry!

Opti-Coat was super easy to use! Anyone who is hesitant because they are scared that it is hard to apply should not think that way.

I'm using the technique that Mike has shown us, including priming the pad, using ample speed, ample product, etc. Maybe my paint is so super soft that even my non-aggressive steps were too much? Please give me any and all feedback.

Thanks and happy detailing (at least happier than mine!)
 
I'm a little confused or maybe it's late. What color is the car? What machine were you using? Towels?
 
So you polished out the rest of the car without decontaminating the rest of it? How many pads did you use and did you clean them frequently? I noticed you said you used ample product and speed, but by that definition it seems like the opposite of what's to be desired. After priming the pad all you should need is 3 pea sized dots, there's also the issue of not over-priming the pad, however I don't think excess product would be a direct contributor to marring & swirls. Did you consider the OPT Finish Polish with a white pad instead of the OPT Polish II? I'm not sure if it's got less cut than Polish II but you deemed it less aggressive. I wish I had something more concrete to contribute but I can only speculate at the moment.
 
DRT BRD said:
I'm a little confused or maybe it's late. What color is the car? What machine were you using? Towels?
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I should have been more thorough in my initial write up. The car is black. I am using a PC 7424xp HD. I am using three types of towels: the blue rolled edge towels, the supreme 530, and deluxe 600. Pads used are white, grey, and blue 5" LC CCS. sorry for the confusion!
 
DRT BRD said:
I'm a little confused or maybe it's late. What color is the car? What machine were you using? Towels?
Click to expand...

dooyaunastan said:
So you polished out the rest of the car without decontaminating the rest of it? How many pads did you use and did you clean them frequently? I noticed you said you used ample product and speed, but by that definition it seems like the opposite of what's to be desired. After priming the pad all you should need is 3 pea sized dots, there's also the issue of not over-priming the pad, however I don't think excess product would be a direct contributor to marring & swirls. Did you consider the OPT Finish Polish with a white pad instead of the OPT Polish II? I'm not sure if it's got less cut than Polish II but you deemed it less aggressive. I wish I had something more concrete to contribute but I can only speculate at the moment.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the initial ambiguity! Let me try to clarify: I am using 3 dots after the pad was primed. I just wanted to express that I wasn't over or dry buffing. Also, no, I DID decontaminate the entire car before polishing and between polishing steps. I tried to do everything "by the book" as Mike has outlined in his write ups. I clean the pad on the fly after every section and about 2 of each pads were used -pretty much one per half- but also keep in mind, it's a small sports car, not a SUV. Also, I did try different combos of pads and product, but found that the "traditional" way that it was manufactured for provided the best results, despite them being less than stellar. I deemed the product cut by the polish chart and the websites - Finish has less cut than II. Thanks for your help!
 
My thoughts on this are:

1) I think you may be dealing with very soft paint, hence the clay marring.... I noticed this when working on a black Subaru a couple of weeks ago....

2) if you did not decontaminate the rest of the paint (clay) prior to polishing you may have been dragging contaminants across you paint whilst polishing, hence the scratches
 
I do a lot of Porsche , if you look at them wrong they will mar. Do yourself a favor and use m205 on a polishing pad, and then a finishing pad. On the ppf, use the finishing pad
Hopes this helps
 
Radarryan said:
I started by doing a small section on the hood of the 911 where the clear bra is (the clear bra is on the entire front clip.)

My thought is that maybe Porsche paint is super soft (my car is flat black) and I will no longer be able to clay without risk of marring. Is this the case?
Click to expand...


Just to be clear,

You clayed the clear bra
The paint on your Porsche is flat black?


Radarryan said:
The clear bra, though, was a different story. Every time I tried to polish it out, it seemed like it made it worse.
Click to expand...


This is why I don't like buffing on other people's clear bras. Even if they're supposed to be able to be buffed it's still a risk.

I talked to our 3M Rep about this and he was supposed to get back to me with some official info from 3M on product, pad and procedure recommendations.

I'll give him another call and see what I can find out.


3M will have a strong presence here at Detail Fest this year too so anyone reading this and attending Detail Fest, here's your chance to bring this topic up with 3M for in person discussion.


:)
 
Mike lambert said:
I do a lot of Porsche , if you look at them wrong they will mar. Do yourself a favor and use m205 on a polishing pad, and then a finishing pad. On the ppf, use the finishing pad
Hopes this helps
Click to expand...


That or some Menzerna SF 4000

Although the Optimum Polish II and Finish are both very capable and high quality products but you never know... it's always possible for one product to work better on different types of paint systems than other products. That's why it helps to have a few "tools" in the tool box.

And always do a Test Spot before buffing out the entire car or an entire clear bra. That way if you run into trouble you only have a small area affected.



:)
 
On high end motorhomes they almost always have that clear film (diamond shield) protecting the front end. On the manufactures website (made by 3M) they say do not use any abrasives. The polish you were using does have micro diminishing abrasives. I would get the clear bra removed if you leave bugs on it the acid eats little pin holes in it. You can't correct clear bra. Good luck with the new car.
 
rustytruck said:
On high end motorhomes they almost always have that clear film (diamond shield) protecting the front end. On the manufactures website (made by 3M) they say do not use any abrasives. The polish you were using does have micro diminishing abrasives. I would get the clear bra removed if you leave bugs on it the acid eats little pin holes in it. You can't correct clear bra. Good luck with the new car.
Click to expand...


Thanks for adding the above Mike...

I've always read posts on forums where people say you can buff on clear bras but soft plastics are very malleable and don't like to be abraded with the end results looking,

  • Good
  • Clear
  • Like new

I'm still going to check with the 3M Rep that has clear bras as part of his responsibilities and we'll get to the official response on this topic as well as any official correction procedures.



:)
 
Radarryan said:
Maybe my paint is so super soft that even my non-aggressive steps were too much?
Click to expand...

I don't think your experience can be stated any better. OPT Polish II on a black pad may have been a good option to try out and see if it would correct more than mar. Also, based on experience and everything I have read on Megs OTC clay (which comes in mild and aggressive); both seem to be aggressive if you have a heavy-hand.

There's more. However, suffice to say you have quite a learning experience under your belt. Draw from that experience for years to come and like the Master (Mike) said, having a broad inventory allows you to nail down a process a little faster and with better quality.

Mark
 
diamond shield dont ever get it on your car or rv the cost is way to high. rv front end only 1800.00 to take it off in 3 or 4 yrs 1200.00 put back on 1500.00 lol
 
Thanks for the clarification. As Mike posted, I was really baffled by the description but it was pretty late and my eyes were tired.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Just to be clear,

You clayed the clear bra
The paint on your Porsche is flat black?
:)
Click to expand...

Correct. I tried test spots on both the clear bra and a section of paint without a clear bra. Both experienced marring. The paint color is non-metallic (flat) black.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'm still going to check with the 3M Rep that has clear bras as part of his responsibilities and we'll get to the official response on this topic as well as any official correction procedures.

:)
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike! I appreciate all your help with everything and always going the extra mile to help. I would like Max to know that because of you and your company's customer service, I will not buy a product from anyone else, price notwithstanding (even though you guys are the cheapest!) I am of the opinion that you can pay extra for good service. I look forward to hearing what the "official" word is from 3M.

mwoolfso said:
There's more. However, suffice to say you have quite a learning experience under your belt. Draw from that experience for years to come and like the Master (Mike) said, having a broad inventory allows you to nail down a process a little faster and with better quality.

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark, ain't that the truth... That's why I share, so someone else may learn from my experience/mistakes. I think I will get better each time!

DRT BRD said:
Thanks for the clarification. As Mike posted, I was really baffled by the description but it was pretty late and my eyes were tired.
Click to expand...

Note to self: do not type in forums in the middle of the night when you're angry and tired... Mistakes will be made :) Thanks for reading my corrections and giving your advice. Much appreciated!
 
heres my opinion if you care ..

the paint is very soft.. You gonna want finer product on hand like Menzerna SF4000 and SF4500. along with gray and blue pads to finish.

and my second statement is this. I hate clear bras ! you have to be really careful with them. they are super soft. but YES, they CAN be corrected. I corrected mine. they are so soft that wiping them with a towel will marr them. also, dont EVER try and work on the clear bra unless its very cool to the touch and has been out of the sun for a while. (especially considering you have black paint like my car). once heated up they get very soft.

I have a feeling 3m is very conflicted on giving a final say on whether or not there clear film product can be corrected. because the reality is that if they say yes, most people will make them look worse with the wrong products. and if they say no, most detailers will never recommend them because they look like absolute hell in no time... so they are obviously never gonna give a straight answer on this unless they come out with their very own system for working on them.
 
I never touch a vehicle with a clear bra or clear anything else. I just say "I'm going to take a pass on this one my friend" and refer them to someone else. It's not worth it. Combined that with paint that is softer than wood? No thanks.
 
TundraPower said:
I never touch a vehicle with a clear bra or clear anything else. I just say "I'm going to take a pass on this one my friend" and refer them to someone else. It's not worth it. Combined that with paint that is softer than wood? No thanks.
Click to expand...

Really? Guess I'd be on my own then huh.... ;)

OTOH There is a guy locally that specializes in high line used cars that had a 911 GT3 RS (in that funky orange color) and the ENTIRE THING was done in PPF. :eek: Front to back, top to bottom! Can't imagine what it'd take to keep all that ppf looking good. :dunno: Did look great from 15' away though. :xyxthumbs:

It had the full brake upgrade, rollcage, 5 point harness, you name it. Original owner ordered everything he could get on it, dropped over $250K in it and the bank ended up taking it! :laughing:
 
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