ERASER vs. IPA (+ VIDEO)

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Avi, thanks for posting here - it is always helpful to discussions when the manufacturers themselves are involved.

Now, as to your post. To start of, I don't believe I am missing the point - perhaps you're missing the point of my post. I am not saying the product doesn't work - obviously it does. (And as an aside, I don't think there's anything wrong about raving about a product. It just means that people are enthusiastic about it, believe it works, and share this enthusiasm with other people. Also, please, don't put words into my mouth and imply that I said that Corey wasn't objective.) What I am concerned about is whether the product, given the IPA concentration that you yourself say it has, will have a softening effect on paint.

You say that it is safe for paint, even with the high IPA content it has - could I ask what testing you've done to say that this is so, and what methodology you used for those tests? Because your statement is in direct contradiction to what the various chemists Mike and Corey have talked with have stated - that using IPA in any concentration over 25% can soften your paint. It doesn't matter what else is in the mix - the IPA will soften the paint, unless those other chemicals negate the solvent effect of IPA - in which case, why use IPA at all, or use IPA in that concentration?

Now, I am not a chemist, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong in this case - I will easily admit to being new to detailing, and to not having the specific car appearance maintenance knowledge that other people on here might have. However, as someone who has to deal with the hassle of getting products shipped overseas, I do tend to be particular about what I buy, which is why I will ask if I am not certain about how or why something works the way it does.

(Corey, my apologies for having derailed some of the discussion on this thread. Also, if you feel that I have in any way questioned your objectivity, then I apologize for making that impression; I feel that you make great contributions to the various detailing forums that you are a part of, and your reviews have always been great sources of information, with the thoroughness of your documentation, the frequent follow-up posts, and the objective manner you approach the products you work with.)

You seem like a bright guy, with very relevant questions. :dblthumb2: I'd like to hear Avi's answers.

 

[CEE DOG]

I have to back up Corey's results. I used Eraser for the first time a few weeks ago. When I tried IPA I saw some beading which led me to believe oils were still there. When I tested with Eraser I found no evidence of oils being left behind.

Eraser isn't grabby either which I really like

Thanks so much for posting your results! It's great to have some peer review of the results which adds to the reliability of the testing.

bump

Fred, to directly answer your dilution question: 8 parts IPA to 24 parts water = 1 part IPA to 3 parts water. So if using 70 percent IPA to cut that part from you end up with 17.5% IPA and if using 90 percent IPA to start with you end up with 22.5% IPA.

70----17.5
90----22.5

I have not used glass cleaner to try stripping oils. Eraser has a cleaner in it other than alcohol that dissolves the oil after the alcohol lifts it. I'm not sure if glass cleaner does or not.

(Corey, my apologies for having derailed some of the discussion on this thread. Also, if you feel that I have in any way questioned your objectivity, then I apologize for making that impression; I feel that you make great contributions to the various detailing forums that you are a part of, and your reviews have always been great sources of information, with the thoroughness of your documentation, the frequent follow-up posts, and the objective manner you approach the products you work with.)

Umi, I don't feel you have derailed the thread in anyway. This is exactly the healthy debate we should be having on these forums. I appreciate both your and Avi's opinions, points of view, facts, figures, or data. I very much appreciate the kind words from both of you and look forward to the further discussion.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Nice comparison review and thank for typing up and sharing the info from Dr. Ghodoussi, it's always great to hear and/or read quality information from a real chemist.

My guess is the trend for the future will be for more surface cleaners to prep paint after polishing in preparation for application of emerging coatings technology.

I'm not a big fan of turning the process of washing and waxing a car into Rocket Science but due to the requirements of new coatings technology more advanced prep procedures will also be a trend into the future...

 

[Avi@CarPro]

Hi Avi...

As you have stated above:

...if you will use 100% ipa you will still might have oily spots leftovers

...so while wiping you could distribute it again back to surface.

...as Bill said we will not disclose the secret how its work , but Eraser is not only ipa/water mixture as you might think .


IMO...Quite a few variables here: Might, could, is not only ipa/water mixture.....these intangibles make for very interesting debate.


Back to the "not only IPA/Water mixture":

Following are some common solvents and their relative strength on a scale of 1-10...(with 10 being the "strongest").
Would you be so kind to state exactly where you place/rank your Erasure product at in this outline? Thanks.

-Toluene: 10/10
-Benzene: 9/10
-Butyl Alcohol: 8/10
-Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK): 7/10
-Acetone: 6/10
-Denatured alcohol (Ethanol): 5/10
-Mineral Spirits (Stoddard Solvent): 4/10
-Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): 3/10
-Ethylene Glycol: 2/10
-Distilled Water: 1/10

[Source: autopia.org]


Thanks again, Avi, for your attention to this matter.


BTW...
Hi Corey: I never tire of your reviews...Keep up the good work!!!



Bob

I would say :
Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): 3/10~4/10

Avi, thanks for posting here - it is always helpful to discussions when the manufacturers themselves are involved.

Now, as to your post. To start of, I don't believe I am missing the point - perhaps you're missing the point of my post. I am not saying the product doesn't work - obviously it does. (And as an aside, I don't think there's anything wrong about raving about a product. It just means that people are enthusiastic about it, believe it works, and share this enthusiasm with other people. Also, please, don't put words into my mouth and imply that I said that Corey wasn't objective.) What I am concerned about is whether the product, given the IPA concentration that you yourself say it has, will have a softening effect on paint.i answered in my post, it wont soften any paint.

You say that it is safe for paint, even with the high IPA content it has - could I ask what testing you've done to say that this is so, and what methodology you used for those tests? Because your statement is in direct contradiction to what the various chemists Mike and Corey have talked with have stated - that using IPA in any concentration over 25% can soften your paint. It doesn't matter what else is in the mix - the IPA will soften the paint, unless those other chemicals negate the solvent effect of IPA - in which case, why use IPA at all, or use IPA in that concentration?I respect both Corey and Dr.J , im talking from our experience,ipa is known as weak alcohol ,if you spray 100% ipa and wipe off after immediately nothing will happen to your paint(though its not my suggestion to do!), the point is if the IPA dissolve oil and clean the surface completely.
as i wrote in my post, ipa only act as lifting from surface , not breaking oil particles.

Now, I am not a chemist, and I'm more than willing to be proven wrong in this case - I will easily admit to being new to detailing, and to not having the specific car appearance maintenance knowledge that other people on here might have. However, as someone who has to deal with the hassle of getting products shipped overseas, I do tend to be particular about what I buy, which is why I will ask if I am not certain about how or why something works the way it does.

(Corey, my apologies for having derailed some of the discussion on this thread. Also, if you feel that I have in any way questioned your objectivity, then I apologize for making that impression; I feel that you make great contributions to the various detailing forums that you are a part of, and your reviews have always been great sources of information, with the thoroughness of your documentation, the frequent follow-up posts, and the objective manner you approach the products you work with.)

 

[jocassee]

Great job. Never thought it would have made that much of a difference. Guess I'll leave the IPA for misc. clean up jobs and buy some eraser.

 

[CEE DOG]

Because your statement is in direct contradiction to what the various chemists Mike and Corey have talked with have stated - that using IPA in any concentration over 25% can soften your paint. It doesn't matter what else is in the mix - the IPA will soften the paint, unless those other chemicals negate the solvent effect of IPA - in which case, why use IPA at all, or use IPA in that concentration?

Umi, I wasn't sure if you saw these parts of that quote I posted earlier.

"While fast solvents such as IPA may fully evaporate at higher temperatures (e.g. 90 F) within hours, slower solvents like MS may take several days before they reach levels below 1%. But the notion that the solvents may be trapped in the paint forever or that the paint will soften permanently is absurd since clear coat paints start off with anywhere from 20-70% solvents and if this theory had any validity, then all paints should stay soft and/or some of the solvents should be trapped within the paint forever."
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"While straight IPA or even 70% IPA can soften the paint excessively, as you increase the water level, the softening effect drops exponentially. In any case, as I explained earlier the softening effect is temporary."

Nice comparison review and thank for typing up and sharing the info from Dr. Ghodoussi, it's always great to hear and/or read quality information from a real chemist.

My guess is the trend for the future will be for more surface cleaners to prep paint after polishing in preparation for application of emerging coatings technology.

I'm not a big fan of turning the process of washing and waxing a car into Rocket Science but due to the requirements of new coatings technology more advanced prep procedures will also be a trend into the future...

I feel the same way Mike. As I mentioned in my intro to the actual review I did on Eraser I was never a big user of IPA wipedowns when we were dealing with waxes and sealants. I usually used a paint cleaner that was built to react well with the LSP I was applying.

With coatings coming along Eraser is an excellent solution to use after polishing.

For the record and for new people that saw this video I was not showing how to use it but simply showing a test to see how it compares to IPA in oild removal.

For best practice you can use your polish removal towel to remove the little bit of polish residue left on the paint. When you want to check a spot or you are ready to apply your coating you can use a seperate towel and Eraser to remove any oils that are left by the polish. When used in that manner (as shown in the "Review: CarPro Eraser" article) you wonn't use nearly as much product.

I would say :
Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): 3/10~4/10

Thanks for chiming in Avi!

Great job.

Thank you, my pleasure.

 

[umi000]

You seem like a bright guy, with very relevant questions. :dblthumb2: I'd like to hear Avi's answers.

Thanks Mark - heh, I'm just a regular guy who doesn't know that much, but would like to rectify that shortcoming.

I would say :
Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): 3/10~4/10

Thanks again for replying Avi. I'm a bit surprised that you don't have controlled testing, across a range of paint types, to determine whether or not the product softens paint - I do understand that it isn't an issue that everyone will encounter, as the number of people across various detailing forums who use IPA at high concentrations without any ill effects will attest to, but I have read an account by Mike where he did experience paint softening due to IPA usage, and I don't doubt that it can happen on some paints.

Umi, I wasn't sure if you saw these parts of that quote I posted earlier.

"While fast solvents such as IPA may fully evaporate at higher temperatures (e.g. 90 F) within hours, slower solvents like MS may take several days before they reach levels below 1%. But the notion that the solvents may be trapped in the paint forever or that the paint will soften permanently is absurd since clear coat paints start off with anywhere from 20-70% solvents and if this theory had any validity, then all paints should stay soft and/or some of the solvents should be trapped within the paint forever."
..........
..............
.....................
"While straight IPA or even 70% IPA can soften the paint excessively, as you increase the water level, the softening effect drops exponentially. In any case, as I explained earlier the softening effect is temporary."

Thanks for highlighting that, Corey - I had read it before, but sort of just skimmed through it. It is reassuring to know that there won't be any permanent effect on paint even with straight IPA - and I guess it's something that would be even less of an issue for me, given that our day temperatures are regularly in the mid- to upper- 30s (in Celsius; about 92 to 100 F). I guess it again highlights the need to always be gentle with your paint - and if you've used a solvent product to dissolve polishing oils/residue, to be more cognizant of the fact that it will likely have a softening effect, and therefore to take the necessary steps to ensure you don't induce marring while it is in that softer state (and on my Toyota, that can be very soft indeed).

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I really like Eraser thus far.

 

[richy]

I used mine for the first time this past weekend on the exterior trim on a Mini. It did a great job. I'll be posting the Mini job tomorrow.