Favorite Follow Up To Rotary/Wool Compounding Step.

[dlc95]

The back story is that I've been moonlighting at a friend's production shop, who does dealership work.

Many of these cars' paint is just destroyed - every defect imaginable.

In my preliminary testing, none of the tools, pads, liquids, etc that I comfortably use in my retail operation cut the heavy defects as fast as a rotary buffer with a wool pad, and heavy cut compound (M100, or HC400).

The obvious drawback is the inherent buffer trails left behind, which needs correction of it's own. Thus far, Menzerna MC2500 on Orange Lake Country CCS, or Tangerine Hydrotechs fitted on a PC7424 gets the job done for me. I haven't tried the SF3500 yet, but will tomorrow, just to see how it does.

What I'd like to know is - what the rest of you prefer as a follow up to the powerful rotary cutting step.

At this point, I'm thinking that a flex 3401, SF3500, and white polishing pads would work. However, I would like to try polishing with the rotary again, and see how it goes. Maybe M205 on the yellow polishing pad at about speed 1000/600?

 

[Paul A.]

Good question, dlc, and I couldn't agree more about the ability and speed of my rotary and a good wool pad to knock down and quickly level trashed paint. I love Menz HCC 400 and have always noticed a different finish when using a foam pad and a wool pad. I have had almost LSP ready results when using foam and have ALWAYS had some residual stuff to clean up after wool. The wool doesn't finish down nearly as good as foam and I believe it is a function of the wool, not the Menzerna.

On most paints I can easily go from a wool/compound to a foam and 3500 and get what i want. I also practice what Mike P talks about when he suggests you change the machine "action" i.e. going from my rotary machine used for compounding with wool to a foam pad and either my Flex 3401 or my PC. It's the dual action that helps me avoid any holograms or buffer trails for the finish. The foam selected for the finish step is usually a white LC pad but sometimes an orange and sometimes a black. Megs 205 is almost the same in that I will vary my finish pad anywhere from orange to black. On super hard paints I like Menz 2500 and can get that to work down any compounding haze or scratches too. M205 with an orange pad is also good on hard or difficult paints.

I have used my rotary for finish buff and polishing but now that I have my 3401 I like to change the machine action as Mike P talks about. When I was pre Flex 3401 and rotary finishing it takes a little more finesse to lighten up your pressures and vary speeds a bit. While it is faster using a rotary for the initial cut down with wool and a compound I don't really need that speed factor as much when finish polishing. I probably took as long to jewel paint with my rotary than I do now with my Flex 3401.

 

[dlc95]

Good question, dlc, and I couldn't agree more about the ability and speed of my rotary and a good wool pad to knock down and level quickly trashed paint. I love Menz HCC 400 and have always noticed a different finish when using a foam pad and a wool pad. I have had almost LSP ready results when using foam and have ALWAYS had some residual stuff to clean up after wool. The wool doesn't finish down nearly as good as foam and I believe it is a function of the wool, not the Menzerna.

On most paints I can easily go from a wool/compound to a foam and 3500 and get what i want. I also practice what Mike P talks about when he suggests you change the machine "action" i.e. going from my rotary machine used for compounding with wool to a foam pad and either my Flex 3401 or my PC. The foam selected is usually a white LC pad but sometimes an orange and sometimes a black. Megs 205 is almost the same in that I will vary my finish pad anywhere from orange to black. On super hard paints I like Menz 2500 and can get that to work down any compounding haze or scratches too.

Thank you, Paul!

And this is why I am going to need the 3401. The PC, and GG6 at the shop are great tools, but I've had the 3401, and it would be perfect from this application.

My friend loves the 2500 as his follow up because it adds "insurance" against any remaining defects, takes care of the buffer trails, and leaves a "showroom gloss", where the 3500 seems to go for the "show car gloss".

He also was mistakenly sent a bottle of 3000, which I might try tomorrow as well.

I've used the Megs da microfiber system. I've found that the pads load up really quick, and I'm not able to compete my cycle before the pad gives up the ghost. It works beautifully when I can take my time, but not when I me is of the essence.

I've also used the Rupes system, which was better than the Megs. The blue microfiber and Zephir cut harder, and the pads "went longer" than the Megs, but it wasn't that much faster, and nowhere near as quick as the rotary. The pads also responded well to the pad conditioning brush, which was convenient.

I'm also going to try finishing with:

Rupes UHS system
Rupes Quarz/Green pads
Rupes Keramik/Yellow Microfiber

Even though I know own they will work, I still want forced rotation for this work environment.

 

[Paul A.]

Yes, I also like forced rotation and absolutely love my Flex because of that. I've never worked a Rupes machine or any of their pads or liquids but am convinced from others here who's opinions I trust that swear by their products and machines. I am sure those can deliver superb finish results as well but I'm thinking you're looking for something effective and quicker.

I'd be curious to hear what you experience after you try some options, dlc.

 

[dlc95]

I love the Rupes system for my personal business - works great in a reasonable amount of time.

This whole situation requires much more muscle found with rotary+forced rotation.

I will definitely report back if interested.

 

[mwoywod]

Just curious, What wool pad are you using? I've been trying to find a decent wool pad that is flat and 5-6 inches, I just don't like how all of the LC wool pads have a massively recessed backing. Do you know of anyone that has tried the new 6inch Lambswool pad?

I use M100 on rotary and lambswool to remove 3000grit sanding marks daily. It takes me a bit longer to do it with lambswool but since it's so much cleaner it's worth it to me.

I have always used HD Polish+ and the maroon uro-tec pad. I feel like HD Polish+ is often overlooked. While M205 is great.....easy wipe off, SMAT abrasives makes it versatile in the sense that it can be use as a finishing polish or 1-step powerful enough to remove sanding marks. That said, unfortunately it can be finicky and difficult to wipe off on softer more porous paints, it can leave haze and micro-marring on certain paints, it isn't trim friendly or sun friendly.

HD Polish+ will not stain trim and is extremely sun friendly, it may not cut as much as MC2500 or M205 but it certainly cuts much more than SF3500 or any other finishing polish for that matter. It's not oily at all, and it finishes so much better than any other polish I've ever used. It has a longer working time and since it's SMAT you can polish a section and move on without going back for more polish.

I've also been really enjoying Boss Correcting Cream. Unfortunately, I think it is EXTREMELY sensitive to the humidity here in Kansas City because it's become so runny it's practically like curdled milk coming out of the dispenser which is really disappointing because I am extremely anal about keeping it in a temperature controlled environment and boss correcting cream is too expensive to become runny when none of my other polishes or compounds have been effected by the humidity

 

[dlc95]

Just curious, What wool pad are you using? I've been trying to find a decent wool pad that is flat and 5-6 inches, I just don't like how all of the LC wool pads have a massively recessed backing. Do you know of anyone that has tried the new 6inch Lambswool pad?

I use M100 on rotary and lambswool to remove 3000grit sanding marks daily. It takes me a bit longer to do it with lambswool but since it's so much cleaner it's worth it to me.

I have always used HD Polish+ and the maroon uro-tec pad. I feel like HD Polish+ is often overlooked. While M205 is great.....easy wipe off, SMAT abrasives makes it versatile in the sense that it can be use as a finishing polish or 1-step powerful enough to remove sanding marks. That said, unfortunately it can be finicky and difficult to wipe off on softer more porous paints, it can leave haze and micro-marring on certain paints, it isn't trim friendly or sun friendly.

HD Polish+ will not stain trim and is extremely sun friendly, it may not cut as much as MC2500 or M205 but it certainly cuts much more than SF3500 or any other finishing polish for that matter. It's not oily at all, and it finishes so much better than any other polish I've ever used. It has a longer working time and since it's SMAT you can polish a section and move on without going back for more polish.

I've also been really enjoying Boss Correcting Cream. Unfortunately, I think it is EXTREMELY sensitive to the humidity here in Kansas City because it's become so runny it's practically like curdled milk coming out of the dispenser which is really disappointing because I am extremely anal about keeping it in a temperature controlled environment and boss correcting cream is too expensive to become runny when none of my other polishes or compounds have been effected by the humidity

I used to use the Meguiar's W4000, which is now the RWC8 I believe. Those twisted wools are so lindy at first. Once they break in, I don't have any problem.

I want to say Mark (WRAPT C5Z06) has used the 6in lambswool on his 3401.

I was thinking of trying the AAT 501 and 502 actually. Specifically 501 with that black wool pad they offer. I tried HD polish last summer, and liked it. I remember it being very wet, and leaving a great gloss.

I'll keep that HD Polish+ in mind. Since the finishing is kind of up in the air right now, I don't mind throwing another variable in there.

What I might do - because these are dealership vehicles, is try and finish with Megs M66, or D151 so he can cut the spray sealant step. That with either the orange or white LC pads. Totally slipped my mind!

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

What I'd like to know is - what the rest of you prefer as a follow up to the powerful rotary cutting step.

At this point, I'm thinking that a flex 3401, SF3500, and white polishing pads would work.

This.

No matter how aggressive I have had to get with my first compounding step with rotary, wool, and SC300 I have always been able to remove the swirling and halograming left in the paint with my 3401, white Hybrid pad, and SF4000 (now SF3500).

The key here will be to take your time on the second step and ensure that the this step is thoroughly exorcised.

 

[RPM_BR]

The follow up after cutting with a rotary/wool/Menz400 combo would be determined by the clearcoat hardness, and thickness.
Nowadays we have better finishing wool pads, like the LC hybrid wool pads, leaving less swirls to be removed
I prefer cuting with rotary and wool under the 1000 rpm range, it takes a bit longer, but with a better finishing.
Menz 2500 looses cut fast (imho); if the clearcoat is hard, I prefer the Menz 1500 (or the new 2400).
The new Sonax line is amazing, Cutmax, 03-06 and 04-06.
3401 with hard or medium foam is my main setup after cutting with a rotary, though Rupes 15 is a nice alternative as well.
I've been using Rupes 21 and wool a lot lately for cutting. When I do it, UHS, Cutmax and FG 400 are my choices, spot test will tell. Scholl S3, with its thick emulsion, does wonders on hard clears, and does a nice marriage with wool pads.
UHS is probaly one of the best all around compound I've ever seen, I use it with the 3401 and with the rotary too.
With so many options available nowadays, regarding machines, pads and compounds, sometimes I feel like an alchemist when deciding which way to go. The spot test was never so important, in finding the best cutting combo with the least amount of swirls to be worked afterwards. The more time you spend in the spot test, the less time you'll spend dealing with its side effects.
Best regards, my friend, and sorry for the long answer. Reading what I just wrote, it is more like a brainstorm than a post. But I'll post it anyway .

 

[ducksfan]

Just wondering, have you ever tried Optimum Hyper Polish on a Optimum Waffle Foam pad with a rotary to finish up. Yvan has videos out showing the process. If it works as well as his tests show, it might be a time saver.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Wouldn't bother with traditional twisted wool on a rotary. Go with lambswool, even if it takes a bit longer, your finish will be much better.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I used to use the Meguiar's W4000, which is now the RWC8 I believe. Those twisted wools are so lindy at first. Once they break in, I don't have any problem.

I want to say Mark (WRAPT C5Z06) has used the 6in lambswool on his 3401.

I was thinking of trying the AAT 501 and 502 actually. Specifically 501 with that black wool pad they offer. I tried HD polish last summer, and liked it. I remember it being very wet, and leaving a great gloss.

I'll keep that HD Polish+ in mind. Since the finishing is kind of up in the air right now, I don't mind throwing another variable in there.

Hey Dan, yep, I have the 6" LC lambswool and it works great. David from LC sent me a couple other lambswool pads to test as well.

On a side note, AAT 502 is noticeably more dry than HD Polish+. I didn't like it when using a DA, but rotary results may be much different, as that's what 502 was designed for.

 

[mwoywod]

Hey Dan, yep, I have the 6" LC lambswool and it works great. David from LC sent me a couple other lambswool pads to test as well.

On a side note, AAT 502 is noticeably more dry than HD Polish+. I didn't like it when using a DA, but rotary results may be much different, as that's what 502 was designed for.

I agree with Mark, AAT 502 & 501 were a waste of money and difficult to use on both rotary and DA. I wasn't a fan of the original HD Polish formula, but HD Polish+ is ridiculously easy to use & wipe off on both rotary and DA. Adapt was great as well but they really screwed the pooch on that one. I'd save your money and just get polish+