Rsurfer
Well-known member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,161
- 26
Are you priming the pad with 105? Another option is Ultimate compound which is less aggressive than 105, but has more cut than 205. Again you need to prime the pad to get results.
First Correction - Poor Results - Any Advice?
- Thread starter Soulman1980
- Start date
Are you priming the pad with 105? Another option is Ultimate compound which is less aggressive than 105, but has more cut than 205. Again you need to prime the pad to get results.
Soulman1980
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
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- Thread starter
- #22
I primed the pad by applying a swirl of 105 over the pad and rubbing it around with my finger until the entire pad had the lighter / whitish hue to it.
From there, I would spread a thin "x" of 105 on the pad, rub the pad back and forth with the machine off to spread the material, than turn it on (i first turned it on after applying it to the paint and found an excessive amount of spatter).
-Justin
ShaunD
New member
- Nov 19, 2010
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Great method to find the culprit. I was going to recmnd you stick to that method to be able to see if you/the MF's are leaving the micro marring.
I know what you have been going through. When I did a paint correction on a horribly swirled out/hazed/oxidized F150 I had a hard time getting through the final polishing steps without any micro marring. I learned from the to stick to what works in the test spot and write done your combos to keep track of everything along the way. The thing here is to learn from your mistakes/processes that didn't give you the results you intended to achieve. I have found myself trying to use microfibers too long during one job and this possibly causing marring. That is why I now have more MF's than I can use at once.
Keep doing what you are doing. It sounds like you are learning quick from your own mistakes/missteps. 
rops:As far as a product in between 105&205 I would think #83 DA cleaner/polish may be a true in-between. I have not used 105/205 but have used Ulitmate Compound and it may be a good in between for you as it is designed to be more user friendly as in a longer working time and a little less aggressive than 105. All that said I am assuming you are trying to stay with a Meguiars product. If you are willing to go outside of a Megs' line I would say something from the Pinnacle XMT line would give you several options with either XMT 3 or 2 falling in between 105/205. If you're looking for an AIO that has some great correction possibilities (by upping the aggression of the pad) and seals the paint with a very durable paint sealant, then I would try out XMT 360. I have been using it for a while now and the only complaint I have is that it is hard to clean out of pads. Mike used the XMT 360 recently a friend's white Highlander that was oxidized and had no reflection let alone gloss to it, and he brought it back to life. He used a combination of yellow/orange cutting pads and from his pics there were no marring left from the pads. Just a suggestion if you want to make quick work of a larger vehicle. I used XMT 360 on a friends 2001 Tahoe and topped it with Klasse and it looked great.
Best wishes and happy detailing.
Rsurfer
Well-known member
- Jan 26, 2007
- 14,161
- 26
Sounds like you have been doing everything by the book. Since you have polished a few times and just need a finishing polish, I would recommend using 205 with a white polishing pad. Good luck Justin.
Wills.WindowsAndWheels
New member
- Oct 31, 2009
- 1,682
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I admit i skimmed through parts of this thread, but from what i read i dont think anyone has asked this question yet..
what size pads are you using?
what size pads are you using?
Soulman1980
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
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- Thread starter
- #26
I'm using 6.5" LC CCS pads.
I'd also like to thank everyone for taking the time to give suggestions and tips.
dougaross
New member
- Aug 3, 2010
- 1,591
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IMO. I think the general consensus is that you will be better off with 5.5 " pads and appropriate backplate. You will be able to keep the pad spinning more easily. And, that flat pads or HT pads will give you better results. The thinner the pad the correction power will be transferred to the paint.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
When you're first starting out machine polishing and learning to use a DA Polisher it's common to have questions about your results and your results are directly tied to your technique.
Here's a list of the most common problems,
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Here's a list of the solutions in matching order, 2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
1. Trying to work too large of an area at one time.
Shrink the size of your work area down. You can't tackle to large of an area at one time. The average size work area should be around 20" by 20". Most generic recommendations say to work an area 2' by 2' but for the correction step, that's too large. You have to do some experimenting, (called a Test Spot), to find out how easy or how hard the defects are coming out of your car's paint system and then adjust your work area to the results of your Test Spot. The harder the paint the smaller the area you want to work.
2. Moving the polisher too fast over the surface.
For removing defects out of the paint you want to use what we call a Slow Arm Speed. It's easy and actually natural for most people new to machine polishing to move the polisher quickly over the paint but that's the wrong technique. One reason I think people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they hear the sound of the motor spinning fast and this has psychological effect which causes them to match their arm movement to the perceived fast speed of the polisher's motor.
Another reason people move the polisher too quickly over the paint is because they think like this,
"If I move the polisher quickly, I'll get done faster"
But it doesn't work that way. Anytime you're trying to remove swirls, scratches, water spots or oxidation using a DA Polisher you need to move the polisher s-l-o-w-l-y over the paint.
3. Using too low of speed setting for removing swirls.
When first starting out many people are scared of burning or swirling their paint, so they take the safe route of running the polisher at too low of a speed setting but this won't work. The action of the polisher is already g-e-n-t-l-e, you need the speed and specifically the pad oscillating and rotating over the paint as well as the combination of time, (slow arm speed), together with the abrasives, the pad aggressiveness, and the downward pressure to remove small particles of paint which is how your remove below surface defects like swirls or scratches.
Removing below surface defects is a leveling process where you need the abrasives to take little bites out of the paint and to get the abrasives to take these little bites with a tool that uses a Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly you need all of the above factors working for you including a high speed setting.
4. Using too little downward pressure on the head of the polisher.
For the same reason as stated in #3, people are scared, or perhaps a better word is apprehensive, to apply too much downward pressure to the polisher and the result of too little pressure is no paint is removed thus no swirls are removed.
5. Using too much downward pressure on the head of the polisher so the pad quits rotating.
If you push too hard you will slow down the rotating movement of the pad and the abrasives won't be effectively worked against the paint. You need to apply firm pressure to engage the abrasives against the paint but no so much that the pad is barely rotating. This is where it's a good idea to use a permanent black marker to make a mark on the back of your backing plate so your eyes can easily see if the pad is rotating or not and this will help you to adjust your downward pressure accordingly.
Correct technique means finding a balance of applying enough downward pressure to remove defects but not too much downward pressure as to stop the rotating movement of the pad.
This balance is affected by a lot of factors like the lubricity of the product you're using, some compounds and polishes provide more lubrication than others and this makes it easier to maintain pad rotation under pressure.
Another factor that can affect pad rotation are raised body lines, edges and curved surfaces as anytime you have uneven pressure on just a portion of the face of the pad it can slow or stop pad rotation. This is where experience comes into play and experience comes from time spent behind the polisher.
6. Not holding the polisher in a way to keep the pad flat while working your compound or polish.
Applying pressure in such a way as to put too much pressure to one edge of the pad will cause it to stop rotating and thus decrease abrading ability.
7. Using too much product or using too little product.
Too much product hyper-lubricates the surface and the result is that abrasives won't effectively bite into the paint but instead will tend to skim over the surface. Overusing product will also accelerate pad saturation as well increase the potential for slinging splatter onto adjacent panels.
Too little product will means too little lubrication and this can interfere with pad rotation.
Again there needs to be a balance between too much product and too little product and finding this balance comes from reading articles like this one, watching videos an most important, going out into the garage and putting in time behind the polisher and as you're buffing with specific product and pad combinations, pay attention to pad rotation.
8. Not cleaning the pad often enough.
Most people simply don't clean their pad often enough to maximize the effectiveness of their DA Polisher. Anytime you're abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of your buffing pad,
- Removed paint
- Spent product
Pad Cleaning Articles
Why it's important to clean your pads often...
How to clean your foam pad on the fly
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
If you haven't already, mark the back of your backing plate using a sharpie marker and this will make it easier for you to see if the pad is rotating under pressure.
Like this,
Swirls and scratches are removed best when the pad is rotating over the surface, not simply jiggling or vibrating against the paint.
Like this,
Swirls and scratches are removed best when the pad is rotating over the surface, not simply jiggling or vibrating against the paint.
Soulman1980
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 21
- 0
- Thread starter
- #30
That is certainly a long list of things to consider.
I do believe I was working too large an area, and when I hit it w/ the 205 I'm going to try to tape off sections. It is difficult to visualize an appropriate space, and somehow that working area seems to get bigger and bigger as you work it around.
With the 105 I was definately apprehensive to push too hard or move too slow. Although I know the DA is safe, with the soft paint of an Acura and an aggressive compound I was still scared I was going to strip the paint off the car.
I'm going to take all of this consideration when I get to the 205 route.
Thanks again for all the help.
-Justin
I do believe I was working too large an area, and when I hit it w/ the 205 I'm going to try to tape off sections. It is difficult to visualize an appropriate space, and somehow that working area seems to get bigger and bigger as you work it around.
With the 105 I was definately apprehensive to push too hard or move too slow. Although I know the DA is safe, with the soft paint of an Acura and an aggressive compound I was still scared I was going to strip the paint off the car.
I'm going to take all of this consideration when I get to the 205 route.
Thanks again for all the help.
-Justin
Soulman1980
New member
- Dec 22, 2010
- 21
- 0
- Thread starter
- #31
Sorry - one more question I know is totally off topic, when a car is taped which I will consider in the future seeing how much WHITE appeared overnight as compound dried and crusted up in every nook and cranny, how do you finish off the areas the tape overlaps (e.g. hood to fender, door to door, etc).???
Obviously with trim and the such your ONLY masking what you don't want compound (which makes perfect sense). But with seams in pictures you can see the tape wraps around onto the paints working area. Do you go back and complete by hand?
Obviously with trim and the such your ONLY masking what you don't want compound (which makes perfect sense). But with seams in pictures you can see the tape wraps around onto the paints working area. Do you go back and complete by hand?
embolism
New member
- Dec 8, 2010
- 2,322
- 0
not sure if this is kosher or not but since I only use a DA, I only taped areas where I did not want splatter and buffed over body lines.
I was conscious of them however, and did not use the same pressure that I did on flat areas. Also went over them at a faster speed than I would normally. I didn't have any problems doing this but I was only using power finish on a white polishing pad...
I was conscious of them however, and did not use the same pressure that I did on flat areas. Also went over them at a faster speed than I would normally. I didn't have any problems doing this but I was only using power finish on a white polishing pad...
Wills.WindowsAndWheels
New member
- Oct 31, 2009
- 1,682
- 0
I just asked this question myself not too long ago.
First off you're totally safe using a DA on body lines unless the paint is cheap or in horrible shape (old or thin). I don't even tape off body lines when using a DA
For edges..you could do them by hand, but an easier way is to slightly tilt your DA...so the pressure is on the edge you need it to be on and then do your edges this way. I'd recommend doing this with a 5.5" pad or smaller though. As i said earlier large pads are very difficult to control.
When you get a chance...order some hydro-tech pads...5.5" but the LOW PROFILE ones..im sure you'll love them.
I'd still tape your plastic/rubber trim 4 sure....but try not to run your polisher up on it if you can help it...just try to 'edge' along it :dblthumb2: