First Correction - Poor Results - Any Advice?

[Soulman1980]

This is my first post, I've been trolling about the forum for awhile. I'm going to post in chunks because I just spent 20 minutes putting together a post with pictures and I hit backspace to delete a picture and the browser went back a page and I lost it all!

I just purchased a Griots DA, along with 105/205, best in show, and some misc. wheel cleaners, tire shine, etc.

I've always enjoyed washing my car and doing a AIO wax/polishes from time to time but never tried to really detail a car.

My car is a 2011 Acura TL, it has about 7500 miles on it now. I went through a few car washes in the winter for the convenience and think I have destroyed my car (lesson learned).

Next post I will post some before pictures.......

 

[Soulman1980]

Here are the before pictures:

 

[Soulman1980]

I started with the 205 going less aggressive first, using the black CCS pad and the Griots on 5.

My method was slow passes left to right twice with moderate pressure, the same up and down, then the same with just the weight of the machine.

At first I thought I had amazing results with just the 205, however the sun was just rising. As the sun came up further and further more and more started to appear, so I assure you the pictures are NOT out of order.

So you can see things were greatly improved, but far from perfect (and remember that pesky sun hadn't really started to shine just yet).

 

[Soulman1980]

At this point I switched to an orange CCS pad and decided to give a go with the M105.

Here is what I ended up with (working the upper right corner of the hood).

I preceeded to complete the hood with a pass of 105, than with 205. Here are the final results, which I'm not very happy with:

 

[Soulman1980]

So, in the end I still have some serious scratches and light swiriling. Also after the 105/205 combo I noticed some halo affect that I could not capture with the camera, even in direct sunlight it was incredibly subtle.

I'd rather correct what I've done before going any further, while I could certainly proceed with the rest of the car and greatly improve from where I came, I'd rather determine what I'm doing wrong and try again.

Is is just so bad I may need several passes with the 105??

I had read some posts where some were so impressed with the 105 they didn't even think they needed the 205 except to add pop, so I was a little dissapointed when 105 left me with so many defects on a virtually new car.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, again I apologize for the multiple posts, I couldn't stomach a post this long getting lost again!

Thanks,
Justin

 

[dougaross]

Starting is with least aggressive measure is correct. You made some improvement Black pad is has no cut.

105/ orange seems to have gotten rid of swirls now follow with 205/white to remove marring. When you remove swirls you will see some RIDS - so another 105 pass may be inorder

 

[LuxuryMobile]

Tip for putting a long post together is to do it in a word document then copy/paste so you don't lose it.

I would polish on speed 6 also. Maybe try making slower passes, polishing with a DA is a pretty lengthy process. Polish in small sections (i.e. break the hood into 6 or so equal sections)

 

[embolism]

did you clay the car?

seems like you went from one extreme to the other. When you used 205 on black and it didn't do what you wanted (which you should have known just looking at the car but I understand how hesitant it is for noobs to take a polisher to their baby for the first time since I was in the same boat), you should have tried 205 on white before going to 105 on orange.

Remember, if you can catch your fingernail on any RIDs then it may be best to leave them alone. Leveling all your clear in that section to get rid of one scratch is just not worth it.

 

[Devo242]

So, in the end I still have some serious scratches and light swiriling. Also after the 105/205 combo I noticed some halo affect that I could not capture with the camera, even in direct sunlight it was incredibly subtle.

I'd rather correct what I've done before going any further, while I could certainly proceed with the rest of the car and greatly improve from where I came, I'd rather determine what I'm doing wrong and try again.

Is is just so bad I may need several passes with the 105??

I had read some posts where some were so impressed with the 105 they didn't even think they needed the 205 except to add pop, so I was a little dissapointed when 105 left me with so many defects on a virtually new car.

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, again I apologize for the multiple posts, I couldn't stomach a post this long getting lost again!

Thanks,
Justin

Soft black Honda/Acura paint can be a recipe for frustration, especially for someone taking paint correction steps for the first time. This paint has a tendency to mar even when exercising the most careful steps in regards to maintenance. For example your final passes with 205 could have removed swirling, but too much pressure with a MF towel, or slight contamination in the towel itself when removing the polish could be reinstalling what you just removed.

Although 105 is a fast cutting compound that finishes like a polish, when dealing with soft paint like I believe you have I would leave it on the shelf. You had the right idea starting with the least aggressive method, but you took a big leap going directly from 205/black up to 105/orange when the 205 did not get you desired correction. I do not know what additional pads/polishes you own, but try 205 on a pad with more cut next time, such as light green, white, then your orange (in order of least to most cut). I would reserve 105 for spot correction on issues like that RIDS you showed in your one photo if the 205 does not take care of it once you have your process dialed in.

Finally, a test spot is your best friend, it is going to save you time and a lot of frustration when searching for the best products and process for this paint; also, don't be afraid to put a few small test spots next to each other to compare which product/pad produces the best results. A wipedown with IPA to remove polishing oils on your test area will ensure what you are looking at is what you are going to get when complete.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Best,
Shawn

 

[Mike Burke]

I'm no expert ( new here) but...........you didn't say if you had a hard time using 105 ?

I did at first...it has a bit of a learning curve so..........I started using Megs Ultimate Compound with a orange pad..........I bit less aggresive but alot longer working time and great results (for me anyway )

Just a thought .....might try ultra compound

 

[Soulman1980]

I did clay the car after I washed it using the mothers detailer spray / clay bar kit.

The paint felt great after the claying.

I took the picture of the before of the those deep scratches just because they were there, I apologize for not being more clear, I wasn't expecting those to come out.

I had purchased the DA along with M105, M205, Best in Class as well as an orange pad, black pad, and red pad (for wax).

I appreciate the input, I don't have much in between 105 or 205 at the moment.

After considering what you said about the microfiber, I do believe that may have given me the super subtle swirl marks. I realized I had used the same for the 205 that I did witht the 105, and I wonder if all the 105 "dust" in the same cloth created the halos.

After my initial post I did go back out and realized I had only used the 105 on one test spot, then (with the bottles looking identical) continued with the 205 and after I was done with the hood glanced back and saw the "105" sitting on the table (ooops!).

I did go back w/ 105 over the hood, then followed with 205 on the black pad. The results are very much improved.

I didn't realize there was such a huge gap between the 105 and 205. I also wasn't so sure it was kosher to use something lighter on an a more agressive pad. Reading through so many posts it seemed many stuck with the 205 on the hard pads, and polishes on the softer pads, and wax on the red.

Trying to get done what I can before it starts getting really hot outside I did proceed with the 105 and have more than half the car complete. I'm also seeing just how you hold the Griots DA can have such a huge affect on how it disperses the product, just holding it tightly or loosely (vs applying pressure) makes a huge difference on the pattern left behind.

Lastly, I'm not sure I've ever owned a car where the sun made such a huge differnece. I walked back out and the finish looked PERFECT even with the sun peaking through a tree, lo and behold with full blast I started seeing all the minor imperfections again. The wife thinks I'm nuts!!

At this point I'm going to finish the last side with the 105 and then shelve that for something else.

What product out there is good that is inbetween the 105 and 205?

The next car up is the 05' MDX in the background of the first picture. It has 100k miles and has probably never been detailed, the paint is very dull - but I'll finish up this one first!

Thanks again.

-Justin

 

[Soulman1980]

I will post a few more pics when all is complete!

 

[SameGuy]

I'm a DA newb, but not new to detailing. The thing you see being hammered home here -- apart from test areas -- is clean pads and MF cloths. Make sure you are cleaning your pads regularly; you might consider getting a second of each color and switching out after roughly half the car. Also, use high quality MF cloths appropriate for the task: polishing for polishing, buffing for buffing, etc. Make sure they are clean. I fold them over twice, giving me eight surfaces, and expose a new surface often. Don't cross-contaminate products via the MFs, ever. Finally, slower is better when wiping and final buffing.

 

[02CAMSS]

Soft black Honda/Acura paint can be a recipe for frustration, especially for someone taking paint correction steps for the first time. This paint has a tendency to mar even when exercising the most careful steps in regards to maintenance. For example your final passes with 205 could have removed swirling, but too much pressure with a MF towel, or slight contamination in the towel itself when removing the polish could be reinstalling what you just removed.

Although 105 is a fast cutting compound that finishes like a polish, when dealing with soft paint like I believe you have I would leave it on the shelf. You had the right idea starting with the least aggressive method, but you took a big leap going directly from 205/black up to 105/orange when the 205 did not get you desired correction. I do not know what additional pads/polishes you own, but try 205 on a pad with more cut next time, such as light green, white, then your orange (in order of least to most cut). I would reserve 105 for spot correction on issues like that RIDS you showed in your one photo if the 205 does not take care of it once you have your process dialed in.

Finally, a test spot is your best friend, it is going to save you time and a lot of frustration when searching for the best products and process for this paint; also, don't be afraid to put a few small test spots next to each other to compare which product/pad produces the best results. A wipedown with IPA to remove polishing oils on your test area will ensure what you are looking at is what you are going to get when complete.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Best,
Shawn

This... Honda acura paint is super soft and I never touched any of my hondas with a orange pad as it is way to agressive. I would get 100% corrections alot of time with po85rd and a white pad.

 

[fancyfootwork]

Seems like you had deep enough RIDs where jumping too 105 was a good choice. You were cleaning your pad after every couple square feet right? 105 is very tricky to work with because of the short working time.

The main reason 105 and 205 were so drastically different is because 105 is a compound and 205 is a polish.

Once you do a few more cars you won't be so easily frustrated and it will come a lot more natural to you.

 

[Soulman1980]

Ok - so I completed the entire car w/ 105. I will post some pictures a little later.

I did work in small sections, and as you get closer to the end I found myself working in larger areas (trying to rush the job?!?!?!), I found when it sat just a minute longer in a slightly larger area it was substantially harder to wipe off - another lesson learned.

I also confirmed the haloing is from the microfiber cloth. Perhaps it is because it was from a cheap MF set at autozone??? I started wiping off in two distinct patterns (opposite directions), and sure enough the haloing went in the the direction of my wipe.

Pictures to follow soon!

Thanks,
Justin

 

[Soulman1980]

Here some pictures after completing the 105 (I'm done for the day).

I may order some good MF towels before doing the 205.

An improvment, but far from perfect:

 

[Devo242]

What product out there is good that is inbetween the 105 and 205?

Meguiar's D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream (PRC) is an all-in-one product that has a level of cut that bridges the gap between 105 and 205, but it includes a sealant that offers basic protection as well as correction. Unfortunately the smallest size Meguiar's distributes this product in is gallon size due to the target market of high volume shops such as dealerships and auctions.

Rather than chasing perfection on soft paint with what appears like your daily driver, another option you may want to consider that does not get a lot of exposure here is using a glaze after your refinement step to fill in the light marring you have leftover. There are a few options here depending on how you want to go about it, for example Poorboy's Black Hole is a good option for dark colored paints and can then be topped with a sealant like their EX-P for protection. Another choice this Poorboy's Polish with Carnauba (Blue) that is a cleaner (no polish) with fillers like a glaze for dark cars and offers carnauba wax protection.

Both of these options offer an excellent finished product that you can use often without the concern for removing paint that goes along with polishing. From your posts I could not tell if you have access to a covered area for your work, but if not the Poorboy's products can be used in full sun which is a huge benefit if you are working outside without shade. Each one of these products is available in a 4oz sample size so you are not breaking the bank buying the 16 oz or 32oz bottles.

 

[Soulman1980]

SameGuy - Thanks for the tip. I do only have one of each pad. I would do two panels then clean with a towel around the pad and the DA set to 1.

Two panels being fender/door, door/fender, etc.

Thanks,
Justin

 

[Soulman1980]

Mike Burke - I didn't find any problems using the 105 (in terms of wiping it off, or having it dry to fast).

I had read many stories prior to purchasing where people complained a lot about the products usability, but I found it to work very well.

I may be wrong, but I think it may react different on different cars. For a long time I used a Meguires Cleaner Polish as an AIO. It always went on easy, came off easy, and left a car looking great. However, I had a 94' British Racing Green Mazda Miata (for any fans it wasn't a US 92, it was a Canadian car was BRG was avialable for several years). The cleaner wax worked AWFUL on that car. It stuck to the paint, I couldn't get it off, and it left a bizarre oil looking finish on the paint (that purplish rainbow like oil in water), it did wash off however.

I did find two things w/ the 105 as a first time user - as I mentioned before when I tried doing a larger space to "move along" it was much more difficult to remove. It also became more difficult to remove as the sun came up, although the paint wasn't hot, it was obviously warmer than when I was in the shade.


Thanks,
Justin