First Time DA Purchase - Which and Why

[GreatAvalon]

^Ed, a lot of wise words there, thank you! I specifically did not buy a PC kit when I ordered my PC for the exact reasons you said.

So quick question, I have a PC but haven't used it yet. So the correction occurs when the pad is spinning correct? If the pad is just vibrating its not doing any correction, it has to be spinning? If so, then what is the purpose of the vibrations if the correction is done w/ the spinning action?

 

[tuscarora dave]

Well it would just be my truck then a coating. I would do my wifes jeep with a sealant. I saw the harbor freight ones but i dont want to buy crap if it is or have it die halfway thru.

People give reasons why gg6 is better because of lifetime warranty and more power, so why would the pc be better?

Thanks all

I've been pounding away at mine for over a year now in a production setting. I don't polish a car every day but I polish cars for a good bit of my living. I've probably done over 50 cars with it now and it's still impresses me every time I use it. It's no more crap than a GG6 or a PC 7424XP, seriously...it's just as good and I've used all of the equivalent Chinese offerings.

 

[peter hurcos]

Love my Flex, but its way overkill I have to admit. Adding a coat of 476 Collinite paste wax is actually about the easiest part of the job.

Why did I get the Flex? I thought the Griot's and the Porter Cable were overpriced in that they were really just gimcrack machines made in China or Mexico. I'm perfectly OK with gimcrack machines, for non-precision use--I just don't want to pay much money for it. Relatively speaking, the Flex seemed a better deal.

If I had to do it again, paradoxically, I'd get the Harbor Freight machine. They didn't have those when I bought my machine. Honest pricing, for a no-name, non-precision machine. If it works out of the box, it will give you a lot of use. If you decide to upgrade, well, you've robably gotten your money out of the HF machine.

 

[Eandras]

^Ed, a lot of wise words there, thank you! I specifically did not buy a PC kit when I ordered my PC for the exact reasons you said.

So quick question, I have a PC but haven't used it yet. So the correction occurs when the pad is spinning correct? If the pad is just vibrating its not doing any correction it has to be spinning? If so, then what is the purpose of the vibrations if the correction is done w/ the spinning action?

You are correct. As Mike Phillips says and shows on all the videos, classes, and his book you need to put a mark on the backplate (yellow plate black sharpie, black plate white paint). This mark will insure that you have the DA flat, pad spinning, and the right pressure. The pad should move freely in an oscillating motion to get maximum work out of the machine and pad. If you put too much pressure the unit will stop and just vibrate. Vibrating does nothing. Again good technique is what you are looking for. When I first start out after washing, claying and begin the polishing process I will mark off a section on the starting panel with a 2' x 2' box with blue painters tape and a rubber ruler. I will mark off 1" tick marks on all sides and will move the unit 1" every second. This will get my speed and pressure correct. I do this on all cars I do since I am only a weekend/ vacation detailer. It helps with muscle memory. Guys that do it for a living will have this down from the start.

Ed :autowash: :buffing:

 

[MarkD51]

^Ed, a lot of wise words there, thank you! I specifically did not buy a PC kit when I ordered my PC for the exact reasons you said.

So quick question, I have a PC but haven't used it yet. So the correction occurs when the pad is spinning correct? If the pad is just vibrating its not doing any correction, it has to be spinning? If so, then what is the purpose of the vibrations if the correction is done w/ the spinning action?

Our Forum Guru-Expert Mike Phillips usually explains it better than most of us, if you haven't, do read some of the many articles he's authored about DA Machines.

Yes, with just a pad "jiggling", and not rotating, the polishing, or compounding product in use at the time will correct in an abrasive manner, just much much more slowly, and much less effectively.

With all free wheeling DA's (the Flex DA is the exception) Mike suggests to mark the backing plate in some fashion so that you can keep tabs on pad rotation as you work.

As it's called "Dual Action", the jiggling eliminates the possibility of Hollogram Trails that can more easily occur with a Rotary Polisher. This random action also lessens heat build up, a cause of paint burning, and burn through.

 

[TundraPower]

There may be some truths to this, but as you'll agree, there can be a number of variables also, such as condition of paint. That even with the Rupes, or Flex, a good number of section passes may be required, and maybe as well as using more than one product (one step) to fully correct a paint. Seems we all know how long the many processes we do on our beloved vehicles seems to take forever and a day some times, the washing, drying, then maybe Iron-X'ing, washing-drying again, then Claying, Masking/Taping Trim, gee, I'm exhausted already and haven't even got to the polishing! Hee Hee! That Rupes Kit is $500 clams, wow.

$500 clams is nothing compared to what Rupes has saved me in time, results, and "paint burn" anxiety. If you can't get 95-98% correction with the Rupes systems in three stages, you're not doing it right. (Removal of orange peel and defects beyond the clear coat excluded.)

 

[GreatAvalon]

You are correct. As Mike Phillips says and shows on all the videos, classes, and his book you need to put a mark on the backplate (yellow plate black sharpie, black plate white paint). This mark will insure that you have the DA flat, pad spinning, and the right pressure. The pad should move freely in an oscillating motion to get maximum work out of the machine and pad. If you put too much pressure the unit will stop and just vibrate. Vibrating does nothing. Again good technique is what you are looking for. When I first start out after washing, claying and begin the polishing process I will mark off a section on the starting panel with a 2' x 2' box with blue painters tape and a rubber ruler. I will mark off 1" tick marks on all sides and will move the unit 1" every second. This will get my speed and pressure correct. I do this on all cars I do since I am only a weekend/ vacation detailer. It helps with muscle memory. Guys that do it for a living will have this down from the start.

Ed

Ok great thanks! First thing I did when I got my back plate 3 weeks ago was put a nice black line on it just like Mike said! Great advice on taping a section off and marking it off. I plan on doing that, especially on my first time using the PC :xyxthumbs:

Our Forum Guru-Expert Mike Phillips usually explains it better than most of us, if you haven't, do read some of the many articles he's authored about DA Machines.

Yes, with just a pad "jiggling", and not rotating, the polishing, or compounding product in use at the time will correct in an abrasive manner, just much much more slowly, and much less effectively.

With all free wheeling DA's (the Flex DA is the exception) Mike suggests to mark the backing plate in some fashion so that you can keep tabs on pad rotation as you work.

As it's called "Dual Action", the jiggling eliminates the possibility of Hollogram Trails that can more easily occur with a Rotary Polisher. This random action also lessens heat build up, a cause of paint burning, and burn through.

Yessir I have read so many of Mikes stuff they blend together! First thing I did was mark my backing plate, felt like I was blessing it with all the knowledge I have learned! :laughing:

Thanks for the great info, Mark! Everything I read is being taken to heart and mentally noted, or even written down for future reference!

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Love my Flex, but its way overkill I have to admit.

Overkill? Nah....

 

[KBsToy]

I got Mikes PC video and saw how to set it up and the correctly use of machine. He showed the marking of the pad , correct pressure and technique and on my 70" TV it helped me. Waiting for spring to try it out..

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

If you end up getting a Porter Cable or one of the knock-offs of the Porter Cable as it is the tool that started the DA revolution as it relates to "anyone" polishign paint and getting pro results.

I'd recommend the below...

Detailing How-To Book and Detailing How-To E-book by Mike Phillips


No matter which PC or PC style polisher you get read this article as you will need to purchase a 5" backing plate no matter what.

5 inch Backing Plates on Meguiar's, Griot's and Porter Cable DA Polishers


This walks you through everything....


How to Properly Use the Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher Updated!

Video: Mark your backing plate to make it easy to see pad rotation

Here's a quick video that show how and why to mark your backing plate to see and monitor pad rotation while doing any correction or polishing steps.

[video=youtube_share;QM8PnDooZP8&hd=1"]How To Check Pad Rotation on a DA Polisher -...[/video]




Anyone reading this thread, watching this video that's new to machine polishing with a DA Polisher should read my article here,



DA Polisher Trouble Shooting Guide


Tyler, age 15 removing swirls using a Porter Cable 7424XP Dual Action Polisher

 

[rjd598]

If it's only between the GG and the PC, then go the GG. However, the HF unit has just about as much power as the GG and mine has lasted me at least 30 cars with no signs of quitting. It's a great way to ease into machine polishing as long as you get a quality backing plate and pad setup from here.

The hf unit actually fits my needs. Is it as safe as a PC or gg? Also what backing plate/pads would you recommend? I was thinking a one step polish with fg400 since it's my daily

 

[GreatAvalon]

Definitely get a 5" backing plate with 5.5" pads for it.

I bought a 5" Lake Country backing plate, a ton of flat 5.5" Lake Country pads, and 5.5" Lake Country Hydro-Tech pads.

I think I saw somewhere that FG400 is essentially a compound, but I hear it finishes nicely. Me personally, I would 2-step it and use either sf4000 or sf4500 (if softer paint) after fg400 to ensure I got as good of results as possible, especially if you will be doing it on that black M3 in your sig/avatar :xyxthumbs:

And you should only need to use the FG400 one time, then prevent swirls from coming back by proper wash/dry and then you can probably maintenance polish every so often from then on.

 

[rjd598]

Definitely get a 5" backing plate with 5.5" pads for it.

I bought a 5" Lake Country backing plate, a ton of flat 5.5" Lake Country pads, and 5.5" Lake Country Hydro-Tech pads.

I think I saw somewhere that FG400 is essentially a compound, but I hear it finishes nicely. Me personally, I would 2-step it and use either sf4000 or sf4500 (if softer paint) after fg400 to ensure I got as good of results as possible, especially if you will be doing it on that black M3 in your sig/avatar :xyxthumbs:

And you should only need to use the FG400 one time, then prevent swirls from coming back by proper wash/dry and then you can probably maintenance polish every so often from then on.

That car is fully corrected and sleeps in the garage this is for my daily m3 which is a purple color. A one step is just to give life to the paint since it gets driven so much, doesn't get washed as often as I would like, and it the paint isn't horrible to the eye since the color hides defects so well

 

[BlackRam]

Thanks everyone for your insight, even Mike P.replied!
I do know the rupes is a lil expensive for me. Stil not sure but will definitly reread this thread again. I got the money aside just looking to pull the trigger

 

[mdgrwl]

The way I see it is if its for personal use, a PC is fine.

If your a pro detailer that needs a better machine that works faster, Rupes or Flex is better.

I got a PC - fine for the 2 times a year I use it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I can do everything there is paint care related with a rotary buffer and a dual action polisher.

When I need a rotary I grab the Flex PE14

When I need a simple dual action polisher I grab the Porter Cable. It's built by a real tool company. You can drop it, pick it up and get back to work with it. As long as you use a 5" backing plate and 5.5" LC foam flat pads you can tackle anything that comes your way.

I have nothing against the Meguair's G110v2 or the Griot's Garage dual action polisher but here's what I know, I tend to grab the Porter Cable. Might just be the fit and finish?

I do grab the Griot's dual action polisher when I'm machine scrubbing tires because I have one with the extra long cord on it and a Cyclo brush and I've dedicated it to nothing but machine scrubbing tires. The thing about machine scrubbing tires is you don't normally want to put the sucker on full speed as it slings tire cleaner everywhere.

This recent Lotus we buffed out, the horizontal surfaces were all done using only a Flex PE14 rotary buffer. The verticle surfaces were all done using only a Porter Cable, the entire car came out perfect.

The Little Yeller Feller - 2000 Lotus Esprit V8


I might get a little time to post the process pictures for this project but top priority is I'm using the this car and the pictures we took for my Power Point Presentation for my class on how to use the rotary buffer and my class on how to use Porter Cable 7424 to create a show car finish at Mobil Tech Expo this Thursday.


The horizontal panels on this car were done using a 3 step rotary process.

The vertical panels on this car were done using a 2-step dual action polisher process and the dual action polisher was the Porter Cable.



The paint looks like someone washed it with steel wool...

After in full sun....

Looks good inside too...

 

[CCC4me]

The hf unit actually fits my needs. Is it as safe as a PC or gg? Also what backing plate/pads would you recommend? I was thinking a one step polish with fg400 since it's my daily

Any of the plates and pads here on AG will do you right. I'm slightly partial to the Meg's plate since I'm often switching between the Meg's MF pads and foam pads, but the differences between quality plates are negligible in actuality.

 

[BlackRam]

Well i made a dummy shopping cart order today to price out some of the options you guys gave. Who would have thought buying a da would feel like a life and death situation. Ill let you guys know what i get and hopefully figure out how to post pics of the truck. Thanks all

 

[GreatAvalon]

That car is fully corrected and sleeps in the garage this is for my daily m3 which is a purple color. A one step is just to give life to the paint since it gets driven so much, doesn't get washed as often as I would like, and it the paint isn't horrible to the eye since the color hides defects so well

Oh man, 2 M3's??!

I didn't know FG400 was a good 1 stepper

I have PF2500 and SF4500 to try out this spring. Hopefully I like them! :xyxthumbs:

Well i made a dummy shopping cart order today to price out some of the options you guys gave. Who would have thought buying a da would feel like a life and death situation. Ill let you guys know what i get and hopefully figure out how to post pics of the truck. Thanks all

When I made my first monster order on here every single thing down to the tire brushes felt like a life and death decision lmao!

 

[lightfytr]

I love my harbor freight. Sure, Ive only used it once, but from the day i got it I swapped the grease with a high temp grease and rotated the chasis so the power button is on top. It runs just a smooth and quiet as my friends PC. Seriously. I dont think you can go wrong, especially if you get the 2 year warranty!