Flex 3401 OPM on each setting?

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I just did some testing. I taped off 3 sections. First, I used the 3401, surbuf, ultimate compound, speed 6. Second, Flex 3401, MF cutting disc, D300, speed 4. Third, GG DA, MF cutting disc, D300, speed 5.

GG DA/D300/MF cut the best, followed by surbuf/UC/3401, followed by the 3401/MF/D300.

It makes sense the 3401 did not cut nearly as well as the others because the pad was rotating at ~3000 OPM.

I will PM those requested the correct OPM's of the 3401 once I get it from Kevin Brown.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Flex 3401/MF cutting disc/speed 4/D300

GG DA/MF cutting disc/speed 5/D300

It's clearly obvious that the GG DA/MF/D300 cut noticeably better. Now, if I used speed 6 with the 3401, it obviously would have cut better becaue the OPM's are higher(4800), but at speed 6, it just doesn't feel right when using the MF system.

 

[05xrunner]

Sorry..I forgot..after using it for a week you now have more experience then someone who was testing it for years and posted the speeds that work well with the flex.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Sorry..I forgot..after using it for a week you now have more experience then someone who was testing it for years and posted the speeds that work well with the flex.

I'm posting MY results. THE FLEX 3401 DOES NOT WORK NEARLY AS WELL WITH THE MF SYSTEM COMPARED TO A TRADITIONAL DA! THAT'S A FACT!

 

[ShaunD]

I just did some testing. I taped off 3 sections. First, I used the 3401, surbuf, ultimate compound, speed 6. Second, Flex 3401, MF cutting disc, D300, speed 4. Third, GG DA, MF cutting disc, D300, speed 5.

GG DA/D300/MF cut the best, followed by surbuf/UC/3401, followed by the 3401/MF/D300.

It makes sense the 3401 did not cut nearly as well as the others because the pad was rotating at ~3000 OPM.

I will PM those requested the correct OPM's of the 3401 once I get it from Kevin Brown.

For someone that said he was done with this thread you sure have devoted plenty more time to it. I am glad you decided to continue being productiverops: and not being like others that just walk away and not be productive to the forum. Thanks for your reviews here. I think we all should just be consistent on here(in life in general).
So did you try to adjust things with the Flex3401 to get the same results as with a "regular" D.A.? This is a very specific system which doesn't seem to allow the user to stray from what the designers intended for it/it for. We all just need to remember it is NEW. There are "old" things that people still test/experiment with so I don't see the Megs MF system being any different for quite a long time, if ever.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

For someone that said he was done with this thread you sure have devoted plenty more time to it. I am glad you decided to continue being productiverops: and not being like others that just walk away and not be productive to the forum. Thanks for your reviews here. I think we all should just be consistent on here(in life in general).
So did you try to adjust things with the Flex3401 to get the same results as with a "regular" D.A.? This is a very specific system which doesn't seem to allow the user to stray from what the designers intended for it/it for. We all just need to remember it is NEW. There are "old" things that people still test/experiment with so I don't see the Megs MF system being any different for quite a long time, if ever.

Check out post #22.

 

[ShaunD]

Alright. I guess I posted my previous post a little too late. You guys are getting a bit heated over something is new to everyone. I think if anyone has probably with someone's review/results they should try to improve upon it their self and see if they have better/different results. We are all in this together and for one another, so lets keep this a positive forum, which equals productive. Maybe you should both take a timeout from posting towards each other. You are both obviously getting worked up over the MF system. Don't think this the kind of excited Megs wants from people with any of their products.lol

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Alright. I guess I posted my previous post a little too late. You guys are getting a bit heated over something is new to everyone. I think if anyone has probably with someone's review/results they should try to improve upon it their self and see if they have better/different results. We are all in this together and for one another, so lets keep this a positive forum, which equals productive. Maybe you should both take a timeout from posting towards each other. You are both obviously getting worked up over the MF system. Don't think this the kind of excited Megs wants from people with any of their products.lol

You're right, Shaun. rops:

I don't want this to turn into anymore of a pissing match.

 

[Audi X2]

Mark I am just glad to see that you are getting these results with the GG D/A.
I plan on using this system with the GG D/A and this kind of documentation is encouraging. If it works well that is all that matters.

 

[ShaunD]

I saw #22 z-oh-6. I think if that post would have been with your initial response post then it would helped some people on here better understand your point. It's just funny how no one that I recall has shown results between the Flex3401 and a less-forced rotation DA being equal using the MF system, yet you guys are arguing about it like someone has gotten better results than what z-oh-6 has posted here. Not everyone's techniques are the same, nor is everyone's paints going to bear/show the same results to everyone. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and just gather info and use it for your em-betterment(think I made up a word/typo'd). Take a deep breathe and relax and realize we are all trying to get to the same place; most of the time, anyway.

 

[ShaunD]

:iagree:

Mark I am just glad to see that you are getting these results with the GG D/A.
I plan on using this system with the GG D/A and this kind of documentation is encouraging. If it works well that is all that matters.

Thanks everyone for giving us some knowledge on here, especially those of us who have yet to purchase the MF system.rops:
Mark, hope I didn't say too much after post #28.

 

[05xrunner]

it has been posted by a few reviewers already that the DA's like the PC and Meg's polishers performed better then the flex and finished out better. But to call it and say that the MF is useless on the flex is a bit much because of initial improper use of it. Thats why i bought the 5" pads for my PC because of all the people I saw saying they preferred it on the PC vs the Flex and finished better. I was still asking what speeds to use it on the flex because I would like to eventually get the 6" pads and give it a try on the flex as well.

 

[PAR Detailing]

I dont care about a link..I know when I have my flex on 6 and PC on 4 there is a HUGE amount of difference between the speeds they are running at. So if the MF pads are designed to run at the 4800 OPM of the PC speeds..I would match the flex at the same rate of speed. and my guess would be around speed 2-3..Id still like to know each speed on each setting

Sorry..I forgot..after using it for a week you now have more experience then someone who was testing it for years and posted the speeds that work well with the flex.

Its ok if you dont want to believe Mark or listen to what he has to say but you dont have to be a c7424: about it.

it has been posted by a few reviewers already that the DA's like the PC and Meg's polishers performed better then the flex and finished out better. But to call it and say that the MF is useless on the flex is a bit much because of initial improper use of it. Thats why i bought the 5" pads for my PC because of all the people I saw saying they preferred it on the PC vs the Flex and finished better. I was still asking what speeds to use it on the flex because I would like to eventually get the 6" pads and give it a try on the flex as well.

You are getting the system so you can test it out. You should buy the 6" pads so you can try it with the flex for yourself. I havent bothered to try it with my flex yet but have and have gotten great results with my GG.

I have to credit Mark, he is not afraid to try things out and test them for himself. I tend to be the same way. He tests products, pads, and processes until he finds something he likes and something that works well for him.

When Mark said the system is useless with the flex I dont really think he meant it just wont work period, I think he was more saying that it doesnt work optimally because it doesnt finish well and the pads dont work the best with it... isnt that the whole purpose of the system, easy to work with and finishes down great?

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Its ok if you dont want to believe Mark or listen to what he has to say but you dont have to be a c7424: about it.



You are getting the system so you can test it out. You should buy the 6" pads so you can try it with the flex for yourself. I havent bothered to try it with my flex yet but have and have gotten great results with my GG.

I have to credit Mark, he is not afraid to try things out and test them for himself. I tend to be the same way. He tests products, pads, and processes until he finds something he likes and something that works well for him.

When Mark said the system is useless with the flex I dont really think he meant it just wont work period, I think he was more saying that it doesnt work optimally because it doesnt finish well and the pads dont work the best with it... isnt that the whole purpose of the system, easy to work with and finishes down great?

Thank you, Jon. I have the utmost respect for you rops:

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

For those that are wondering about the Flex 3401's OPM's, here is a link.

I would assume it's OK to post a link from MOL considering AG sells Meg's.

G110 or Flex - Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

PER TODD HELME

"Random Orbital DA's do not have a fixed rate of OPM's vs. RPM. Take any of the newer style DA's and run them at speed six (which is usually rated between 6000-6800 OPM). Press down VERY hard on the paint, to the point the pad stalls or almost stalls. If you press down just right you can get the pad to spin at a greatly slowed rate, like 1 time per minute. While the orbits will stall slightly, most of the slack/friction is taken up in the bearing of the machine. You have created a rate of 6800 (roughly) per rotation.

Forced Rotation DA's have a fixed rate. The orbit is actually driven by the rotation, so that if the rotation stalls, so does the OPM, and vice a versa. In regards to the Flex, you are correct. The Flex orbits ten times per rotation and this never changes. This is easy to verify, spin the pad 1 time around and count the orbits, it is always ten.

This means that at maximum speed the Flex is limited to 4800 OPM. (480 RPM x 10 orbits per rotation). Flex uses a 'unique' way of rating the machine, but if we are comparing apples to apples then random orbital DA's produce more OPMs and are less likely to have the OPM rate stall (since the motor is not responsible spinning the big pad).

Now with most polishing systems and with foam pads, the Flex is going to produce more cutting power because it is a forced system and correction is dependent on how fast the foam is moving across the paint. The combination of a forced, high speed rotation, and the orbital motion means you transfering more energy to the paint.

Things get flipped around a little bit when you use something like a Surbuf or Meguiar's DA microfiber system. The texure (little fingers or the microfiber tuft) of the pad makes it more efficent with the orbital motion than with a rotational motion.

When something is orbiting it is like moving your hand in tiny circles (wax on/wax off). This exposes ALL of the microfiber (or micro finger)'s sides to the paint. Since the abrasive grains in the polish attach to the microfiber, the increase in surface area (and the amount of abrasives working) means that most of polishing action is coming from the orbital motion instead of the spinning motion.

In fact too much spinning motion is a BAD thing (hence Meguiar's recommending a SLOWER speed for the DA system). This is because spinning the pad too fast will cause centrifugal force to pull the fibers outward and cause them to lay flat. Down you just have a standard sized pad vs. a pad that is using all of it's surface area (and far less abrasives are being used at a given time).

This is why many people are getting better results using random orbitals instead of forced rotation machines when using products like the Microfiber DA disks (or Surbuff's).

Hope this makes sense and clears up any confusion."

 

[RaskyR1]

^^^and that's why Todd is one of the top detailers out there! :dblthumb2:

 

[05xrunner]

PER TODD HELME

"Random Orbital DA's do not have a fixed rate of OPM's vs. RPM. Take any of the newer style DA's and run them at speed six (which is usually rated between 6000-6800 OPM). Press down VERY hard on the paint, to the point the pad stalls or almost stalls. If you press down just right you can get the pad to spin at a greatly slowed rate, like 1 time per minute. While the orbits will stall slightly, most of the slack/friction is taken up in the bearing of the machine. You have created a rate of 6800 (roughly) per rotation.

Forced Rotation DA's have a fixed rate. The orbit is actually driven by the rotation, so that if the rotation stalls, so does the OPM, and vice a versa. In regards to the Flex, you are correct. The Flex orbits ten times per rotation and this never changes. This is easy to verify, spin the pad 1 time around and count the orbits, it is always ten.

This means that at maximum speed the Flex is limited to 4800 OPM. (480 RPM x 10 orbits per rotation). Flex uses a 'unique' way of rating the machine, but if we are comparing apples to apples then random orbital DA's produce more OPMs and are less likely to have the OPM rate stall (since the motor is not responsible spinning the big pad).

Now with most polishing systems and with foam pads, the Flex is going to produce more cutting power because it is a forced system and correction is dependent on how fast the foam is moving across the paint. The combination of a forced, high speed rotation, and the orbital motion means you transfering more energy to the paint.

Things get flipped around a little bit when you use something like a Surbuf or Meguiar's DA microfiber system. The texure (little fingers or the microfiber tuft) of the pad makes it more efficent with the orbital motion than with a rotational motion.

When something is orbiting it is like moving your hand in tiny circles (wax on/wax off). This exposes ALL of the microfiber (or micro finger)'s sides to the paint. Since the abrasive grains in the polish attach to the microfiber, the increase in surface area (and the amount of abrasives working) means that most of polishing action is coming from the orbital motion instead of the spinning motion.

In fact too much spinning motion is a BAD thing (hence Meguiar's recommending a SLOWER speed for the DA system). This is because spinning the pad too fast will cause centrifugal force to pull the fibers outward and cause them to lay flat. Down you just have a standard sized pad vs. a pad that is using all of it's surface area (and far less abrasives are being used at a given time).

This is why many people are getting better results using random orbitals instead of forced rotation machines when using products like the Microfiber DA disks (or Surbuff's).

Hope this makes sense and clears up any confusion."

So this basically proves that if you were to find out the ratings Flex list the speed per setting then it would come out to speeds probably 2-4 for 4800 to match the way the PC is supposed to be run at and mimics the speed that others have said to use the flex at with the MF system.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

So this basically proves that if you were to find out the ratings Flex list the speed per setting then it would come out to speeds probably 2-4 for 4800 to match the way the PC is supposed to be run at and mimics the speed that others have said to use the flex at with the MF system.

The Flex on speed 6 is 4800 OPM.

 

[05xrunner]

You should read what Todd said more carefully.

The Flex on speed 6 is 4800 OPM.

but like everyone said..flex rates the speed different..SOO if you go by what their rating of what would be considered 4800opm then that is probably between 2-4 setting on the Flex..That is the setting most people reccommend using the Flex with the MF pads..So I read it just fine.