Flex 3401 vs rupes 21 mark 2

Zubair said:
The 21 MKII has no competitor from any other DA, closest competitor in power and speed of correction would be a Flex PE-14 rotary. The 3401 is more around an LHR15ES.

If you have absolutely no technique stick to a 3401, if you a pro, get a Rupes.
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That comes off to me as arrogant and demeaning plus a little bit of Forum Bully too.


There was another guy on this forum that banned himself recently for posting and acting like you only for Optimum products. I spoke with the owner of Optimum products and he didn't like how this now self-banned forum member represented his company's good name.

I'll take a guess that the owner and management of RUPES also don't want or appreciate some guy on a forum deciding who should and who shouldn't purchase their products and that's exactly what you're doing to the RUPES brand with the last sentence in the above post.


People are free to do their research and then make up their own mind as to which tool is best for them. They don't need some other person making the choice for them.

Everyone on this forum, and on any detailing forum and this includes Facebook too started out in the exact same place and that is knowing nothing about car detailing and machine polishing. This includes me. We all started out in the same place and then moved forward either on our own via the school of hard knocks or from learning from those that have gone before us and then instead of keeping what they've learned to themselves, sharing it. That's what this forum is about, helping anyone at any level to become the best they can.

RUPES tools are NOT just for seasoned experts. In fact one of the benefits to the RUPES tools, pads and products is they are USER FRIENDLY. Someone that has never used a RUPES tool can become and expert with RUPES tools simply by applying themselves. Luckily for everyone there are thousands of people that are already good with the RUPES paint polishing system that are more than willing to help others dial in their technique with RUPES tools. That would include real-world scenarios where a friend or neighbor shares a few tips and techniques, this forum and the scads of people all over the blogosphere willing to share.


In fact...

The claim could be made that a person is better off starting out with ZERO machine experience so they bring zero habits with them as they START with a RUPES polisher including the BigFoot 21.




Zubair said:
Do you own both a 3401 and a MKII 21? If not, yours and others advice here are null and void.
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Again... this comes off as arrogant, demeaning to others and also an example of what a Forum Bully acts like. We not only don't need or want this type of attitude on our forum we simply won't put up with it.



Zubair said:
The 21 MKII NOT ONLY TAMES THE " BEAST", IT DESTROYS IT ON ALL COUNTS!
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That's just your opinion, which your entitled to. But when you type in all CAPITAL letters it's a visual technique for YELLING and we don't need you yelling at any of the members of this forum.



Zubair said:
Seriously can't see the point of ancient, outdated tech being compared to far superior technology and the old stuff being defended by people who don't embrace new technology- this is clear as night and day. I'm not the only one who notices the ignorance and lies constantly being given by certain individuals.

Those that are stating a 3401 to be on par a MKII or more powerful should be living on the moon.
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Another example of arrogance, belittling, demeaning attitude exemplified by a Forum Bully.



Zubair said:
Coming from someone who doesn't own or have experience with a 21 MKII, yeah you definitely are a liar along with another ignorant poster or two who will soon come in with more lies.
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And calling our forum members liars is over the line and against the forum rules.



Forum Rules



3. You are welcome to disagree but you must be polite.

4. No bashing any company or their products. No bashing other people. If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all, this also includes talking to others in a demeaning manner.

REMEMBER this forum is here for those that are new to detailing and those that have been doing this for years. We expect that you treat everyone with respect no matter what their level of detailing is. We all had to start somewhere.

12. Continuously breaking the rules to disrupt the online community will result in you being banned from the forum.


:nomore:
 
Elijah said:
Hey Mike I have the 3401 what's all the hype about rupes 21 mark 2 is there fast defect removal with the mark 2 by rupes.

And what's the difference between the 2 machines is one better than another.
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Hi Elijah,

First let me apologize for the horrendous display of arrogance and hostility by one of our forum members. They've been placed into time-out at least for now.



You ask great questions so let me see if I can answer them to the best of my abilities in a fair and balanced manner.



:)
 
Zubair said:
Coming from someone who doesn't own or have experience with a 21 MKII, yeah you definitely are a liar along with another ignorant poster or two who will soon come in with more lies.
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I'm not sure why there is all this hostility and arrogance. Usually when this is openly displayed, it is a sign of insecurity. So, I have to ask, why make such a fuss over what people use to correct the paint of their cars or the cars of their clients?

In the end, I think what truly matters is that the recipient is pleased with whatever works has been done to the car. The right machine for the job is the machine that gets the job done. If that's the Rupes for you, then fantastic. If it's the Flex for me, then great! If it's both for the next guy or gal, then wonderful.

I think you'd receive a better reception on this forum and in real life if you were capable of debating the merits of one device over the other if you did so in an intelligent and non-confrontational manner. An intelligent debate about the MK II v the Flex may help us all who are on the fence or just getting started or even potentially looking to add to our arsenal of devices.

I don't think anyone here is opposed to debate or disagreement, but you are doing so in a rather uncivilized and unintelligent manner.

Your posts are filled with opinions and open derogatory comments about people in general. I certainly hope you aren't this insufferable in real life.

Sent via my mobile device...
 
Fast Eddie said:
Not sure where you heard that at, but my G21 is noticeably more powerful than my MK2....and my MK2 does not correct faster than my G21. I have both obviously as well as a 3401.

I was in the same boat as the OP quite awhile ago and was sick of all the misinformation so I just went ahead and bought all the machines to try myself, ended up keeping all of them.
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From various user reports. One hd G21 and switched to 21 Mk2 and finds it better and stronger. I dont have experience from Boss but i gueas Boss beats mk1 and is pretty much equal with 21 mk2 so its all about personal preference.

Few pro detailers here in Finland did mk1 Rupes vs Flex 3401 test and Rupes won that test. It cutted faster and finished better. Imo only benefit of flex is that you can add tons of pressure but atleast my mk2 wont bpg down with heavy pressure and im a 220lbs gym guy. Also because of the larger throw you dont need much pressure. But again it is all about personal preference. Im sure both machines will get the job done.
 
Okay let me take a stab at this...

I'll break your up your post into it's specific comments and questions and then address each one individually. Feel free to take your exact questions to any other forum or Facebook and compare my replies to anyone else's replies.

In the case of Facebook, just note on Facebook you cannot format text like I'm doing below to make it easy for me to reply and for you and everyone else to read. That's the problem with Facebook is it offers a horrible interface for formatting text and pictures.



Elijah said:
Hey Mike I have the 3401
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The FLEX 3401 is a great tool. I use this tool when I need to get a car machine decontaminated, compounded and polished fast. As in I don't have a lot of time. Most of my personal work is done in the 6 hour time frame from start to finish. This includes,

  • Waterless wash
  • Mechanical decontaminate with a Nanoskin pad on the FLEX 3401.
  • Compounding with either a wool pad or a foam cutting pad on a FLEX 3401
  • Machine polishing with a soft foam pad on a FLEX 3401
  • Machine sealing of the paint using the FLEX 3401 if I'm using a traditional wax or synthetic paint sealant.


The fact that the gear-driven design of the drive mechanism means I can power through a detailing job as fast as humanly possible while still doing pro grade work no matter what the shape of the body panels.



Elijah said:
what's all the hype about rupes 21 mark 2
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The hype is simple. We as guys get excited about tools. Nuf said.

If any guy or even girl reading this disagrees that "we" as guys (and girls) get excited about tools PLEASE chime in on this thread and explain share why you disagree. My guess is no one will disagree.

There was even a very popular TV show where the premise for the show was about tools. The start of the show is a "Car Guy" , his name is Tim Allen. And the name of the show was Home Improvement and the name of the fictional TV show inside this TV show was Tool Time.

It's even easier to get excited about tools when the concept behind the tool is dramatically DIFFERENT than all the tools that have gone before it.

RUPES introduced a tool that was extremely different than all the other orbital polishers on the market at the time they introduced the BigFoot 15 and BigFoot 21 and this key difference was the LONG ORBIT STROKE pattern to how the pad is both rotatated and oscillated.

IT was a game changer if there ever was a game changer in the car detailing industry.

I share how it was a game changer in chapters 1 and 2 of my RUPES how-to book. I gave due credit to RUPES for their innovation, technology and design. (see page 3 in my book). I also gave due credit to Kevin Brown for his part in introducing the RUPES tools to the detailing industry and helping to make the RUPES tools popular via education. In fact, this section giving Kevin Brown due credit is in the 4th paragraph on PAGE ONE of the book.

I'm a huge fan of giving due credit where credit is due and practice this faithfully as well as leading by example. I'm sadden to see this in not always reciprocated in our industry.




Elijah said:
is there fast defect removal with the mark 2 by rupes.
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Yes. Of course. And specifically with the RUPES BigFoot 21 Mark II series polisher with either a microfiber cutting pad or the aggressive RUPES blue foam cutting pad and of course with the RUPES Zephyr Gloss Compound.

It is the long orbit stroke length unique to this tool PLUS these types of pads and the incredible abrasive technology RUPES uses in all their compounds and polishes.

So "yes" with the RUPES BigFoot 21 Mark II you can get very fast defect removal. I would go further to say that not only can you get very fast defect removal but you can also get incredible show car results using this tool with their pads and products.

This is why when I wrote my how-to book I PURPOSEFULLY wrote the title to say,


How to use the RUPES BigFoot Paint polishing System


Note the word system not tool.



Here's the book....

RUPES_Book_Cover_021.jpg



Here's Marco D'Inca, the lead Engineer for the RUPES BigFoot tools after I signed a copy of the book for him.

SEMA_Pictures_2015_007.jpg




Elijah said:
And what's the difference between the 2 machines
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The primary difference is the FLEX 3401 is gear driven and the RUPES BigFoot 21 is a free spinning design.

The FLEX 3401 has an 8mm OSL
The RUPES BigFoot 21 has a 21mm OSL


OSL = Orbit Stroke Length



In my opinion their is no comparison as you are comparing apples to oranges. I have stated this numerous times on this forum and other venues over the last 4+ years. For some reason everyone wants to compare them but because they are SO DIFFERENT it's intellectually an unfair comparison.



Elijah said:
is one better than another.
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The answer to that question is

personal preference


And as you can read via the replies to this thread or any thread like it anywhere, there's a lot of opinions on this topic.


The best and only opinion that matters is the one you make after spending hours behind each tool to become familiar with how they work and then decide which one is best suited for your specific type of car detailing.


This by the way is one of the strong reasons a lot of people come to my Competition Ready Detailing Class because at my Competition Ready Detailing classes you get to use ALL these tools and you get to use them on the REAL DEAL, that is real show cars and of course daily drivers. So by the time you've went through the class you know which tools you like and which tools you'll take a pass on.


I also teach how to use both the FLEX 3401 and the RUPES BigFoot 21 in my annual boat detailing class which is coming up very soon. Info below...


:)
 
I've researched the web and as far as I can tell I'm the only guy that teaches classes on all tools and ALSO posts pictures, thousands of pictures of the actual classes....

I do this so you can SEE what you actually get to do and the tools you get to use when you attend one of our classes...



Here's the last boat class.... note you'll see guys using both FLEX and RUPES because I teach how to use both tools when it comes to boat detailing....


Pictures and comments: Marine 31 Boat Detailing Class - February 6th, 2016



Machine sanding with the FLEX 3401

2016_Boat_Class_102.jpg




Putting a show car finish on a boat with the RUPES BigFoot 21

2016_Boat_Class_074.jpg







;)
 
Fast Eddie said:
Not sure where you heard that at, but my G21 is noticeably more powerful than my MK2....
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Interesting, I've owned a G21 and sold it. I've played with a Rupes MK II 21 and found it to be more powerful, so I orderd the MK II 21 w 5" BP. However, to each their own. :xyxthumbs:
 
I've tried the Flex 3401, Rupes 21 & 15. I sold both Rupes, and kept the Flex.

I kept the Flex because of its smaller orbit, and gear driven design. I felt that these two attributes, lent it's self better to panel curvature.

Now, the orbit of the Rupes 21 & 15, is large and flat. I could never understand why a machine with a large, flat orbit made such a great polisher, considering all of the curves on any given vehicle. If you were to mimic the orbit of a Rupes 21 by cutting cardboard according to its stroke, and imagine applying that to a car.

Where would it succeed?

I felt that because the Rupes needed more time to master than the Flex, that made the choice of which polisher to keep, for me.

Obviously, mastering the Rupes 21 & 15 can be done because many respected detailers use the Rupes system, and obtain excellent results.

My experience told me that the Rupes 21 & 15, had a longer learning curve than the Flex 3401.

What else I've never understood is why some say the Rupes finish better. Again, I didn't give the Rupes machines enough time to see why, however, I am wondering if those who say the Rupes finish better are fanboys, or if that was their real experience.

I would love for someone to give a detailed description as to why the Rupes finish better.



:)
 
me to got still brand nwe p14-150 /2 two time start and thats all
and thinking to by mark 2 21" rupes..
iam like moneky like all things to try and like to try ...hehe
PS
can i put video for demsotratrion when by rupes vs crauss (copy german of rupes 21") if admins agree
 
dragan75 said:
me to got still brand nwe p14-150 /2 two time start and thats all
and thinking to by mark 2 21" rupes..
iam like moneky like all things to try and like to try ...hehe
PS
can i put video for demsotratrion when by rupes vs crauss (copy german of rupes 21") if admins agree
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Why add more drama at the end of the day rupes is rupes and flex is flex 2 great quality machines you want to buy inferior machines go to harbor freight.
 
dragan75 said:
can i put video for demsotratrion when by rupes vs crauss (copy german of rupes 21") if admins agree
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No.

We're here to support the tools sold on Autogeek.

If you haven't already, then take a moment to read the forum rules and abide by them. If for no other reason, out of respect for the company that owns this forum and pays the bills to make it magically appear.


Forum Rules



:dunno:
 
Mike summed it up very well.

It all comes back to personal preference. For those that have neither tool, it's best to come the conclusion which may work best for you. For me, I will always reach for the MK II 21 before the 3401. Why? Generally speaking, the MK II 21 paired with a MF cutting pad will remove defects faster than the 3401 with any pad, while leaving a great finish. However, there are times when a panel will benefit better from the 3401.


Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app
 
Just to add....


Last Thursday night a team of us guys attacked a 1980 Corvette.

I think it's fair to say that a 1980 Corvette has it's share of curvy panels and also thin panels and tight areas.

The secret to buffing out the entire car using the RUPES Paint Polishing System was to have the entire arsenal of RUPES tools and pads so we could match the pad size to the panel to be buffed. This is what I explain in my RUPES how-to book.


RUPES is NOT a tool. It's a system.


Check it out... lots of shots showing all the RUPES electric tools in action...


Custom Paint Job - 1980 Corvette - RUPES & Gyeon - Extreme Show Car Makeover at Autogeek

1980_Corvette_020.jpg




:)
 
WRAPT C5Z06 said:
Mike summed it up very well.

It all comes back to personal preference. For those that have neither tool, it's best to come the conclusion which may work best for you. For me, I will always reach for the MK II 21 before the 3401. Why? Generally speaking, the MK II 21 paired with a MF cutting pad will remove defects faster than the 3401 with any pad, while leaving a great finish. However, there are times when a panel will benefit better from the 3401. Autogeekonline mobile app
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WRAPT C5Z06 said:
I've had a love/hate relationship with it, but for a while now, I've really grown to like it! You cannot deny the FORCED ROTATION!!! Once you get used to it, free spindle DA's become annoying, IMO. Stall, stall, stall! Although, more energy is expended using the 3401, it's well worth it. You can POWER through a detail; the pad never stalls at all!! I've tried VERY hard to like the long throw DA's, but I always find myself going right back to the Flex 3401. For those who may be considering it, do realize it will take some getting used to the TORQUE!! The polisher has a mind of its own. It will try to control you, but you must control it. On the flip side, there a good amount who don't like it, but I'm not one of them!!
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i thought you reach for your flex more than any long throw machine?
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/101685-you-just-cant-beat-flex-3401-a.html
 
Fast Eddie said:
Not sure where you heard that at, but my G21 is noticeably more powerful than my MK2....and my MK2 does not correct faster than my G21. I have both obviously as well as a 3401.

I was in the same boat as the OP quite awhile ago and was sick of all the misinformation so I just went ahead and bought all the machines to try myself, ended up keeping all of them.
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agreed, and IMO the G21 has enough power as does the GG6 (love it!)... :dblthumb2:
 
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