Flex PE14-2-150 Shocking

Zubair said:
I used speed 1!!! I am absolutely gobsmacked at the correction ability at speed 1! I initially thought I'd just spread the polish on 1 and then bump up to 3, but then thought to myself out of curiosity to just work the polish in at 1 and wipe off. If the swirls were still there bump up to 3, but after the wipedown I was floored, the finish was perfect!

Then I looked at the specs, the 3401 at speed 6 spins at 480rpm, the PE14 at speed 1 spins at 600rpm!

Also, its way quieter, smoother and powerful than any polisher I have ever used, it's ridiculous how easily this thing corrects paint!
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Also keep in mind that modern high quality compounds don't require high speed and in fact low speeds work just as well while keeping surface temperatures lower. I cover this in the chapter on rotary buffers in my how-to book, The Complete Guide to a Show Car Shine.


And just to note... you never have to heat the abrasives up to break them down, that's an old wives tale.

Diminishing abrasives bread down from pressure over time. Heat is an unwanted and unnecessary by-product of the process.



Zubair said:
We all chasing faster correction through long throws,thinner pads and so forth when the answer all along was PE-14!
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I teach this in my 3-day classes and also in a class I teach each year at Mobile Tech Expo. That is to reduce correction time start with a rotary buffer but for guaranteed hologram free results finish with any dual action polishers.


Here's one example of the rotary/dual action approach

Mark's Fast Ferrari with Wolfgang Fuzion

watermark.php



:)
 
Mike, you mention finish with a DA, what if one had to just switch to say a black finishing pad and a finishing polish on the rotary instead of switching to a DA?
 
Zubair said:
Mike, you mention finish with a DA, what if one had to just switch to say a black finishing pad and a finishing polish on the rotary instead of switching to a DA?
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This is a topic that has been beat to death for decades and I don't really want to beat it anymore. I'd recommend reading, (not scanning), what I wrote here,

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer

Horrendous001.jpg






I think I cover every point about finishing out with a rotary only in the thread.

Note I never say it cannot be done I do point out that most people,

  1. Don't check
  2. Don't know how to check
  3. Don''t see their work (the car months later after it's been washed dozens of times)
  4. Are working on light colored cars
  5. Etc., etc., etc...
And for what it's worth I have at least 2-3 write-ups on this forum showing rotary only buff-outs. I've seen a lot of guys state what they can do but never any pictures proving what they can do.

And also for what it's worth I think it's easier than ever now days to finish out visually hologram free simply due to the amazing quality of ultra fine cut polishes on the market, (note I didn't say fine cut polishes), and the super high quality ultra soft finishing pads and jeweling pads on the market today PLUS using the LOW RPM setting on the Flex PE14 NOT using high RPM's for leaving a hologram free finish as some recommend.


:D
 
Hopefully they run another sale soon so I can order one of these. I need a rotary.
 
7PaintGuns said:
What rotary are you currently using?
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Hitachi SP18. It's now about 8-10 years old and i can't kill it! I kind of wish it would die so i had a reason to get the Flex. The only thing i have done is change out the brushes. I run everything from a 7" wool pad down to a 3" black LC flat pad and it does almost everything i need. I am now in love with the LC Hybrid pads with it and thank "Smack" for those. I have my starter, middle relief and closer pads. I read Mike P's posts on jewelling when he first posted them and they solved my holograms. Worked like a charm (thanks Mike!).

Over the years i have burned through twice and will say shortly after i started getting comfortable with it. I come from an aviation background and they always talked about new pilots being most dangerous at around 250-300 hours logged. Thats the period that you have gained some confidence but are still a little "green" if you fnd yourself in funky conditions. So true in my case with my rotary. BUT...haven't burned through since AND both screw ups were on my car, NOT a customer's.

(that's it! I'm getting a Flex!!!)
 
Ive had a Harbor Freight rotary for about 11 years. I have picked up my detailing in the last 4 so it never really got beat on before. It has done maybe 10 cars in that time and Ive used it maybe 3 times in the past 4 years to get some heavy scratches out.
 
Puckman said:
Hitachi SP18. It's now about 8-10 years old and i can't kill it! I kind of wish it would die so i had a reason to get the Flex. The only thing i have done is change out the brushes. I run everything from a 7" wool pad down to a 3" black LC flat pad and it does almost everything i need. I am now in love with the LC Hybrid pads with it and thank "Smack" for those. I have my starter, middle relief and closer pads. I read Mike P's posts on jewelling when he first posted them and they solved my holograms. Worked like a charm (thanks Mike!).

Over the years i have burned through twice and will say shortly after i started getting comfortable with it. I come from an aviation background and they always talked about new pilots being most dangerous at around 250-300 hours logged. Thats the period that you have gained some confidence but are still a little "green" if you fnd yourself in funky conditions. So true in my case with my rotary. BUT...haven't burned through since AND both screw ups were on my car, NOT a customer's.

(that's it! I'm getting a Flex!!!)
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I posted my thoughts in http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../33127-worth-get-new-flex-pe14-2-150-a-2.html. Why do you feel like you need to replace your Makita with the Flex? I'm just wondering and maybe a little concerned, that this may be a "fan boy" situation. I only buy Shimano fishing reels, Samsung TVs, and drink more Coke than Pepsi so I'm no exception. Obviously Flex makes a fantastic product and I had no idea they made grinders and drills as well. Perhaps Mike Phillips could shed some light on this for me. Painting and paint correction is my sole source of income, and it's made me a lot of money. I am always looking for ways to improve my process. Why choose the Flex?.
 
7PaintGuns said:
Perhaps Mike Phillips could shed some light on this for me.
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I think I shared why in this link to an article I wrote and added to post #19

The Flex PE14 Rotary Polisher - The rotary I grab first...


But for me,

  • Lightweight
  • Compact in size
  • Quite
  • RPM dials down to 600 RPMs in lock position
  • RPM dials down to 400 RPMs if you want to control the speed trigger
All you really have to do is use the Flex 3401 for a few hours and then pick up any full size rotary buffer and my guess is after buffing with the full size for a few minutes you'll put it down and go back to the Flex 3401.


:)
 
Hi Zubair. I'm really glad you finally got your PE14!

I remember your previous post about what to expect and tips; now your arsenal is complete!

Best regards, and I'm glad for you man.
 
dcjredline said:
Ive had a Harbor Freight rotary for about 11 years. I have picked up my detailing in the last 4 so it never really got beat on before. It has done maybe 10 cars in that time and Ive used it maybe 3 times in the past 4 years to get some heavy scratches out.
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That rotary is the biggest POS I've ever used. Worthless other than spin drying pads.
 
I'm seriously sitting here shaking my head with a smirk on my face. Once again Mike, you have already been there done that. Thank you very much for the link. When will you start painting so I can read you Sata vs Iwata posts?!

:hijacked:

Sampled from page 5 of

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...mblebee-testing-out-new-dewalt-dwp849x-5.html


Mike Phillips said:
"After about 6 hours of running both rotary buffers here's what I think, the new DeWALT is a great rotary buffer especially for the price. The 600 RPM low range is the most valuable feature. I also really like the rubber bumpers on the back side that enable you to set it down on a polished fender or hood without scratching the paint.

Apples to Oranges
Comparing the Flex PE14 to any of the full size DeWALT rotary buffers, or the Makita, or any other brand of full size rotary buffers is like comparing apples to oranges in that the Flex PE14 is a true compact rotary buffer and falls into the Compact Size category, while the DeWALT DWP849X falls into the Full Size category for rotary buffers.


Makita 9227C vs DeWALT DWP849X
A better comparison would be to compare the Makita 9227C with the DeWALT DWP849X as they are much more similar and my guess is that DeWALT introduced this new model to compete against the Makita rotary buffer. Both of these buffers, the Makita or the DeWALT would be great choices. I've always been a fan of Makita rotary buffers if for no other reason because I used one for years until it finally wore out having purchased it new in 1988.


The best of both worlds
In a perfect world a person would have at least two rotary buffers, a full size working dog for doing all of the grunt work and a compact, light-weight rotary buffer for when you need to do surgical precision work. This way you can use the one that best fits the job at hand.


The compact size and low weight of the Flex PE14 plus the 600 RPM range are the features I'm most attracted to. It's light weight and small size make it really easy to control when doing intricate work. Perhaps we'll see the introduction of other compact, lightweight rotary buffers into the future.

After the compounding the upper half of the 1949 Sedan Delivery, I just switched over to the Flex PE14 due to the light weight and compact size features. I could have used either for the rest of the job by my preference was for the easiest tool to work with as this streetrod has a lot of real-estate to buff.


Here's some pictures to show relative sizes...

The two Flex rotary buffers on the left are in the Compact category while the other 4 rotary buffers are in the Full Size category. Comparing the compacts with the full size rotary buffers can be done but it trends towards the comparing applies to oranges analogy as in person and in use you can tell right away when you switch from a full size to a compact or visa-versa."
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This is why I use a Chicago Pneumatic mini buffer and just recently purchased a Flex PE8

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So far being a noobie here it's very clear Mike and AG provide unbiased opinions on what and how to use their products and others in order to achieve their/our correction goals in the most efficient ways possible.

Every one here knows this, I'm just pleasantly surprised.

Thanks again!

What can I get you for Christmas Mike?

hahah:laughing:
 
RPM_BR said:
Hi Zubair. I'm really glad you finally got your PE14!

I remember your previous post about what to expect and tips; now your arsenal is complete!

Best regards, and I'm glad for you man.
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Thanks and I appreciated the advice and couldn't be happier :-)
 
Thanks for sharing your experience, Zubair! The pe 14 is on my list to buy. It never a bad idea to have proficiency in as many machines as possible.

I recently did a friends bucket truck with oxidized ss paint. He had a rotary with a wool pad in the garage. That + m105 made short work of the cutting process. His model was similar to the one I had in the late 90's too.
 
dlc95 said:
Thanks for sharing your experience, Zubair! The pe 14 is on my list to buy. It never a bad idea to have proficiency in as many machines as possible.

I recently did a friends bucket truck with oxidized ss paint. He had a rotary with a wool pad in the garage. That + m105 made short work of the cutting process. His model was similar to the one I had in the late 90's too.
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Pleasure, the wierd thing for me is seeing the test spot/fender today and can't help but think the rotary with a compound gave an absolutely stunning finish as if it has been jeweled. Am I imagining or does the PE-14 finish better too? I need to go over the same spot with a black pad and SF4000 on speed 1 again and see what it does.
 
7PaintGuns said:
That was from an older post Mike Phillips had that I quoted from.
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:laughing:

I edited your post and Ron's post to insert the correct quotation references.

When using the quote feature it helps to also use the code view feature to edit the code before hitting the [REPLY] button.

Not all browsers enable you to SEE the code view this is why I use Internet Explorer when working on vBulletin forums. It takes advantages of all the features in vBulletin and I don't think Chrome or FireFox do this.

For what it's worth, here's my article with pictures that shows how to use the multi-quote feature in vBulletin which also shows people how to use the code view for a single quote.


How to use the "Editor Mode" to break a single quoted message up into smaller quoted sections


:xyxthumbs:
 
7PaintGuns said:
I posted my thoughts in http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum.../33127-worth-get-new-flex-pe14-2-150-a-2.html. Why do you feel like you need to replace your Makita with the Flex?.
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Valid question. I wouldn't be replacing my Hitachi, just adding another machine to my arsenal. I tried a Flex PE-14 about 3-4 months ago and felt a massive difference in my hands as compared to my Hitachi. I could feel the build quality difference and the smoother feel. And at 5.6 pounds was even lighter than my Hitachi. That was a consideration when i first got my Hitachi...it was the lightest rotary at the time (well, the Fein was even lighter but if i remember right it was about $400. Can you imagine!? $400 for a polisher!!!). Again, i do about 75% of my work with a rotary. If my Hitachi failed on me mid job i would have to resort to my only other machine...a Porter Cable 7336 to finish and that's about 13-15 years old now too. I would continue to use my Hitachi for smaller pad "cut in" work and would also have it as a backup rotary machine.

And, like Mike P. said above, i find myself using lower speeds with the current batch of "super abrasives" we're now using. Heck, I'm almost jewelling compounds! (well, that's a stretch...)

My biggest question that remains is do I wait for the new Flex XCE unit coming out and simply get that and keep both my rotary and PC as backups.

Now, having said all of that and to address a brand loyalty perspective, i will say the Rupes and even the Griots BOSS system have intrigued me. I will say that i am loyal to a forced rotation thing having used my rotary for so long and on soooo many jobs. I have gotten used to almost exactly what it can do AND its limitations as well. Burn through on your own car and ya learn more than 3 Mike P. posts put together! I like the sureness of its strength and the way it can cut faster thereby reducing my time spent levelling paint. If Rupes comes out with a forced action DA my head might explode if i haven't pulled the trigger on a new machine yet. I understand how and why Rupes users love that product. I admit to never trying one but am assured of its quality by hearing the perspective of some of those on here i consider pro's. Over the years i have learned that quality costs more money but, in my opinion, is worth it. Especially if you are using that quality for income. Again, just my opinions.
 
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