Getting Ready for the 1st Polish.

[Quattro3.2]

Good evening gentlemen/ladies,

Thanks to Heavy Metal, I am about to polish my brilliant black 2007 Audi A4 for the 1st time. I have had everything for sometime, but haven't had the guts to actually do it. I have listed my process just to make sure I don't miss anything. I have read, and re-read the forums, but I think I need some assurance. I am going to be using the Wolfgang twins for this. I know that Audi’s have very hard clear coat, so I plan on doing several test spots to find the best combo (least aggressive first). I put together my steps. I have a few questions with pics at the end. Forgive the state of my car. It has been raining for a week now.

Interior
- 1Z Plastic Vinyl Deep Cleaner on the floor mats
- 1Z Premium Cockpit Cleaner on trim, dash, and navigation screen
- Leather cleaned with CG Leather Cleaner and conditioned with CG Leather Conditioner or 1Z Lether Care
- Compressed air and interior brushes
- Windows cleaned with IPA and lint free microfibers

Wheels and Tires
- Chemical Guys El Diablo 3:1 and a wheel brush and microfiber
- Sealed with Poorboys Wheel Wax
- Dressed with CG VRT
- Exhaust tips were polished using a combination of CG Grime Reaper, P21S polishing soap, and Optimum metal polish, 0000 wool, and ultimately a dremmel tool. I couldn’t get it all off by hand. Sealed with Poorboys Wheel Sealant
- Trim dressed with Poorboys Trim Restorer

Exterior Process
- CG Citrus Wash and Gloss to remove any LSP. I think that I will need an APC to help with this.
- Mothers yellow clay with ONR as clay lubricant
- Tape off trim, etc.
- Wolfgang TSR with an orange LC CCS pad (XMT Pad Conditioner as a little boost)
- IPA wipe down (50/50 91% IPA)
- Wolfgang Finishing Glaze with a white LC CCS pad (XMT Pad Conditioner as a little boost)
- IPA wipe down (50/50 91% IPA)
Re-wash with CG CW and OPC
- Menz Powerlock with red LC CCS pad (XMT Pad Conditioner as a little boost)
- Lusso Oro to top it off by hand, if necessary.
- 1Z Gummi Plfege on seals

Tools
PC 7424xp
Various brushes
Green 3M tape
Crap load of microfibers


Now on to the questions. I have several. First, the hood and body has some pretty aggressive body lines. I know you are supposed to avoid the hard lines. Should I tape these off? If so, how do I polish the lines to have the mirror shine I am hoping for?

Hood Line

Body Line

Next, how do you polish under the door handles and the handles themselves if I plan on taping them off? I am also lost as how to polish the trim around the fog lights.

Door Handle

Fog Light Trim

I also need to touch up the headlights and the tail lights. You can kind of see the swirls in the photo. Can I use the TSR or the Finishing Glaze with a white pad?

Headlights

Taillights

I have read the posts, bought and watched the DVD, and now I just feel kind of lost. I even contacted a few local detailers and asked if I could tag along and learn, even do some grunt work, but no one was down to teach. I would really appreciate any suggestions you might have. Looking forward to it.

 

[TornadoRed]

I'm not Mike Phillips but I answer his questions on the internet...

As a recent newb, I found myself asking the same questions and having the same concerns. If you don't have your heart set on having perfect paint on your first attempt, you can use the Wolfgang Finishing polish only. It may not correct the paint but at least it will be clean and it will help you figure out the technique required with a lower risk of doing damage. That's what I did on my first try. I used a very mild polish that barely did anything my hard clearcoat. It didn't remove a single defect but I was able to gain confidence with the machine.

You didn't mention the size of the pads you were using but getting around the body lines will be easier with a combination of 5.5 and 4 inch pads. I have very similar body lines on both of my cars. What I do is get the flatter areas with the 5.5 inch pads. When I'm done with that size of pad, I switch to a smaller backing plate and 4 inch pads and hit everything I couldn't get with the bigger pads (like the small area of the doors above the door handles). I discovered that it is a big waste of time for me to try to hit the small areas with the bigger pads. More experienced people might be able to do it but I just end up making a mess. After that I use the 4 inch pad by hand and hit everything else (door handles, rocker panels, around fog lights, door jambs) by hand.

The headlights and taillights may be soft so use the least aggressive and go from there.

 

[Quattro3.2]

Thanks for the feedback. Its good to hear from other realtively new detailers. I plan on putting a coat of wax down on my wife's car to get the feel of the machine. I really want to have a great finish, so I plan on starting with the TSR and doing it the right way. Ultimately, I would like to hit it with Dr ColorChip and then some opticoat 2.0.

I am using 5.5 LC CCS pads. I don't have anything smaller. I figured that I would have to do some things by hand. I have the polishing pal. I am trying to keep my expectations reasonable. I have four days to do it. I am taking Monday and Tuesday off so I will have plenty of time. Trial and error. I am really looking forward to it.

If anyone else has tips or tricks, I would love to hear them.

 

[HeavyMetal]

A couple comments. First, from what I understand, the citrus wash should do fine by itself. I had waxed my RAV with 845 (pretty tough stuff) a few weeks ago as practice and all I used was some Dawn. I had no probs.

I can't see the level of defects you have. I had very minor swirls and hairlines - looked like little circular spider webs,mostly on the hood and doors. That's why I figured a white pad would do. If you have heavier defects, go with the orange pad. Having learned how "safe" the WG Twins are, I wouldn't be afraid to use an orange today.

Skip the IPA and wash after polish, they're a waste of time especially since you're sticking within a product line (WG is made by Menz). Read Mike's write up on IPA. It's a solvent for the clear, that's why it dulls when you wipe. And as Mike notes, the products are designed to have a synergistic effect step-to-step. So, all that is necessary is to buff off just like the instructions note.

I would tape the door handles, sunroof trim, any other plasic trim you could bump with the DA, around the lights and maybe if the body seam is really sharp. My RAV has some lines and I did not tape. I just went over them with care. Not sure how sharp yours are. I had some light hazing on a couple door handles, I did that by hand with an mf applicator.

I do recommend a nice carnuba over the sealant unless you like the hard plastic look. Just wait 12 hrs for the sealant to cure.

I'll leave the headlight question to others.

 

[Old Tiger]

Mike Phillips had a great article on IPA a few days back. The IPA should only be 10% and water 90%. Higher concentrations can soften clearcoat. This was news to me, but just in time before I coat the Ford with Cquartz! CarPro recommended 90% of 91% IPA and 10% Dawn!

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Mike Phillips had a great article on IPA a few days back. The IPA should only be 10% and water 90%. Higher concentrations can soften clearcoat. This was news to me, but just in time before I coat the Ford with Cquartz! CarPro recommended 90% of 91% IPA and 10% Dawn!

You don't know what to believe, but I personally think 91% IPA is way too strong. I'll take Dr G's word that anything over 35% IPA could swell the paint.

 

[Quattro3.2]

Seriously, you are proving to be a wealth of information. I am playing the APC by ear. I just recently waxed the car, so I am not sure that the citrus wash will cut it. We shall see. Trust me, there are some pretty serious swirls and some scratches that are borderline to deep. They don't catch the nail, but they are pretty intense. I figured that the orange is going to be the way to go. I plan on taking pictures of the whole process so everyone can see.

I think I'll skip out on the IPA. I re-read some more of the posts regarding the Wolfgang and you are probably right. I have to justify all the microfibers I have bought. I have plenty.

The body lines are not terribly sharp, but the hood is my main concern. The channels are pretty deep, and I am not sure how to handle those.

I plan on waiting to see what it looks like after the sealant has cured. I kind of want to use the Lusso oro just for the smell. It’s like a pina colada in your hand. It seriously smells awesome.

Again, thank you very much for the hints. It’s always good to hear from someone in my shoes. Thanks again!

 

[Quattro3.2]

Mike Phillips had a great article on IPA a few days back. The IPA should only be 10% and water 90%. Higher concentrations can soften clearcoat. This was news to me, but just in time before I coat the Ford with Cquartz! CarPro recommended 90% of 91% IPA and 10% Dawn!

You don't know what to believe, but I personally think 91% IPA is way too strong.

You are both right. I decided to skip the IPA for this round. I need to research a little more ad test my methods before I commit.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

You are both right. I decided to skip the IPA for this round. I need to research a little more ad test my methods before I commit.

I've recently been using Griot's pre-wax in place of IPA. It's specifically used to clean polishing oils and leave the paint bare for any LSP. It works great! :dblthumb2:

 

[Quattro3.2]

I've recently been using Griot's pre-wax in place of IPA. It's specifically used to clean polishing oils and leave the paint bare for any LSP. It works great! :dblthumb2:

For $9 I might go pick so up and try it on a panel or two. There is a Maserati dealership up the road that sells Griots products. Thanks for the tip.

 

[HeavyMetal]

Quattro,

I googled your Audi. I don;t see any panel lines that are any sharper that on my RAV. Your hood is similar to my RAV. I would divide into 3 sections - center and two side panels. Polish each separately. To get the bend sections I would very carefully run the pad up and over while I did each side. Or you can stay away and get by hand.

Same applies to the side panels. Divide along the body lines. Yeah, the lowest section and rockers are really small, but so what. I did the whole rocker as one panel.

So to give you and idea, on the A4 door I see 4 panels: upper panel just below the window to the bend line, main section from bend line to molding, below molding to bend, bend above rocker. You might divide the main section in two depending how big it is. I'm guessing not, but that's a guess from a pic.

I would be VERY careful around the trunk and rear bumper. The bumper blends to the rear quarters so be careful you don't run the edge of the backing plate into the panels there. Ditto when doing the bumper step - watch you don't hit the trunk lid vertical. Same when doing the trunk lid vertical. I would probably pop the trunk while I did this. I opened the RAV rear door to do mine.

It's gonna be tough getting that skirt below the fog lights. I'd probably do that by hand. You should be able to get the area below your headlights with the DA no prob. Just make sure you tape so you can't bump. A single strip of 1" around the light should do it.

I would tape the plastic around the mirror mounts. A single strip down the window line to portect the molding. The top and sides of the windshields. Maybe the roof channel depending on how recessed it is. Body side molding. I would not waste my time taping the door seams or any body seams. I had no issues with polish packing in anywhere. I just popped the doors and hood and did a quick wipe. Body, door handle and molding seams I got with a soft toothbrush. But then I strictly followed instructions on how much to use. You can draw your own conclusions from that.

CAVEAT: I did take a lot of care when I did my car. I really paid attention to what I was doing and when I came up to body line or panel blends I really slowed down. I didn't bump anything in the whole process. Now, I have run a lot of equipment from heavy industrial to regular circular saws, nail guns, etc.

You can wash with whatever before the sealant if you desire. I will say I think it's a waste of time. I do believe Mike P when he says that the chemical engineers have designed each step to be compatible with the next, especially if you stay within a product family. It's your choice if you wish to go with that or not.

Have fun :buffing::buffing::buffing::buffing:

 

[HeavyMetal]

You don't know what to believe, but I personally think 91% IPA is way too strong. I'll take Dr G's word that anything over 35% IPA could swell the paint.

I hear ya Mark. I will go with Mike P who's talked with the Chem E's who make the paint and products, and Dr G, of course.

Why the IPA and Dawn? Sounds like CQuartz is really, really sensitive to the slightest amount of oil on the surface. IPA will pull oils from a surface but isn't good at dissolving. Dawn is a pretty heavy alkaline detergent with a lot of surfactants. I guess they suggested this mixture as a cheap alternative to the specifically formulated paint cleaners like Griot's. Why they would do that is beyond me. If you're that concerned and don't want to recommend another product, why not make your own instead of suggesting some funky mixture? I just look at that and say, WTF? :dunno:I guess it works, just sounds weird to me.

 

[rwright]

If this was my situation and I knew that I was working on a car with known hard clearcoat I would simply reach for Meguiar's M105/M205 combo, but that's just me. Since you have a dark car I highly recommend Menzerna PO85RD as your third step teamed up with a gray pad. Not sure why you doubt CG Citrus Wash & Gloss won't strip your wax, it is a strong soap that's designed to strip lsp's. If you are considering the addition of an APC then you may want to go with Optimum Power Clean as it's known to be safe on paint even at full strength. If you're not confident that CG CWG will strip your wax, try a pre-soak using Optimum Power Clean then follow up with a wash using CG CWG.

You should plan to start working early and work as long as possible each day with very few breaks. Also plan to set your PC XP on speed 6 for the duration of the polishing session. As noted, get the thin panel areas such as around the fog lights and doorhandles by hand. Again, working on known hard clearcoat you may want to use Meg's M105 to make the work faster. I don't recall seeing anything about lighting, so if you don't have a Brinkmann Swirl Finder light obtain a very bright LED flashlight to check your progress. Sears and some others carry 1,000 watt halogen light stands pretty cheap. I bought the Craftsman light recently and love it because the top section easily removes so that you can set the lights on the ground.

 

[jslym777]

I dont think I will ever use IPA on any vehicles, I know most of you have never had any negative results but I dont feel comfortable using a paint stripper (at full strength) on a vehicle. The effects of it diluted may not be harmful to us but I always wonder if it is still breaking down the paint/bonding at a chemical/molecular level... To each their own! I too am using the Griot's to prep for wax.

 

[Quattro3.2]

If this was my situation and I knew that I was working on a car with known hard clearcoat I would simply reach for Meguiar's M105/M205 combo, but that's just me. Since you have a dark car I highly recommend Menzerna PO85RD as your third step teamed up with a gray pad. Not sure why you doubt CG Citrus Wash & Gloss won't strip your wax, it is a strong soap that's designed to strip lsp's. If you are considering the addition of an APC then you may want to go with Optimum Power Clean as it's known to be safe on paint even at full strength. If you're not confident that CG CWG will strip your wax, try a pre-soak using Optimum Power Clean then follow up with a wash using CG CWG.

You should plan to start working early and work as long as possible each day with very few breaks. Also plan to set your PC XP on speed 6 for the duration of the polishing session. As noted, get the thin panel areas such as around the fog lights and doorhandles by hand. Again, working on known hard clearcoat you may want to use Meg's M105 to make the work faster. I don't recall seeing anything about lighting, so if you don't have a Brinkmann Swirl Finder light obtain a very bright LED flashlight to check your progress. Sears and some others carry 1,000 watt halogen light stands pretty cheap. I bought the Craftsman light recently and love it because the top section easily removes so that you can set the lights on the ground.

I was really torn between the 105/205 and the Wolfgang system when I was first purchasing my supplies. Mike P. really sold me on the abilities of the Wolfgang, especially since I am new to the PCXP. I do not have the PO85RD in my current arsenal, but I have been debating if I'll need it. I am going to wait and see how the Finishing Glaze does. Secondary question. If I am not happy with the final work, can I strip everything down again and just use the PO85RD with the gray pad to jewel, then reseal everything?

I don't doubt the CG CWG, but I just like to be prepared. Read my signature, it's sort my creed. I have some of the 1Z W99 and some CG grime reaper. OPC is on my want list, but my wife still thinks im crazy for all the stuff I have. I guess credit cards and work deliveries are on the horizon.

I took off a couple of days, so I am looking at 4 days for the detail. I have no plans and I'll be at my Dad's house catching up. So short of a few beers with my dad and brother, the car is my priority. I am using two craftsman halogen lights and two different types of Streamlight LEDs. Plus, the sun I hope. It looks like it might be a bit rainy this weekend.

Keep it all coming guys, I already feel like I have learned a lot. I want to hear some more!!

 

[Quattro3.2]

I've recently been using Griot's pre-wax in place of IPA. It's specifically used to clean polishing oils and leave the paint bare for any LSP. It works great! :dblthumb2:

To each their own! I too am using the Griot's to prep for wax.

I just picked up a bottle to try since a couple of you have brought it up. Looking forward to trying it out.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

I was really torn between the 105/205 and the Wolfgang system when I was first purchasing my supplies. Mike P. really sold me on the abilities of the Wolfgang, especially since I am new to the PCXP. I do not have the PO85RD in my current arsenal, but I have been debating if I'll need it. I am going to wait and see how the Finishing Glaze does. Secondary question. If I am not happy with the final work, can I strip everything down again and just use the PO85RD with the gray pad to jewel, then reseal everything?

I don't doubt the CG CWG, but I just like to be prepared. Read my signature, it's sort my creed. I have some of the 1Z W99 and some CG grime reaper. OPC is on my want list, but my wife still thinks im crazy for all the stuff I have. I guess credit cards and work deliveries are on the horizon.

I took off a couple of days, so I am looking at 4 days for the detail. I have no plans and I'll be at my Dad's house catching up. So short of a few beers with my dad and brother, the car is my priority. I am using two craftsman halogen lights and two different types of Streamlight LEDs. Plus, the sun I hope. It looks like it might be a bit rainy this weekend.

Keep it all coming guys, I already feel like I have learned a lot. I want to hear some more!!

Wolfgang TSR isn't the strongest polish, but it should be able to remove moderate swirls.

You can absolutely strip the car then re-polish with 85rd. Even 85rd might be able to strip the LSP, therefore, not needing to strip any other way. However, I'd use CG citrus wash just to be thorough.

Also, I tested the griots pre wax cleaner vs. IPA. I polished a section, then used griots and inspected. I then wiped with IPA and nothing more was uncovered. I like the griots pre wax cleaner.

Sounds like a GREAT time with your dad and brother! Have fun!

 

[Quattro3.2]

Sounds like a GREAT time with your dad and brother! Have fun!

Ha, more like my dad and brother drinking beers looking over my shoulder watching me work. Then giving me "constructive criticism" while busting my chops. Then asking me to do their cars. Ok, your right. It's going to be a great time.

 

[rwright]

When I first started polishing with a PC XP I used M105/M205 with no problems. I found both products to be very easy to work with. After searching multiple forums and reading through multiple "Wash & Wax", "Exhibition Room", "Show & Shine", and "Pro Studio" threads I found more detailers were reaching for Meguiar's M105/M205. I understand your not wanting to chance things but if more pro's use a specific product(s) there must be a reason. There are times when Menzerna polishes appear in threads. As for the PO85RD, it's going to give you that extra pop in your paint. I call it liquid mirror.

Good luck to you and I can't wait for pictures! :xyxthumbs: