GG or Rupes DA

Thank you Swan and Woob, your answers are both similar and different at the same time. Hearing I'd have to change my combo, pad and technique concerns me a bit, let me explain. At our detail day 2 summers ago I tried 3 machines, forgot which ones and we had a test hood brought in by 2old2change (thanks again Paul) and I burned the scallop on the hood because I was in one spot too long. Now I'm trying to remember if I was using wool or not but I'm vvery comfortable w/ my GG6 RO and wouldn't worry about an accident which is main concern.

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Honestly, I have both machines and the Griots is more powerful than the Rupes. More powerful in the sense it's easier to stop the pad from spinning on the Rupes (not correction power). So, the Rupes has a more "safe mode" built in. You would be hard pressed to burn anything with a Rupes using skills honed on a Griots. I don't want to start the "amps/watts" discussion again, but if you compare the two you will see which is more - much more.
 
Because of your rep and other posts here Swan, I do truely believe you and wouldn't mind trying out the Rupes. Which Rupes would you suggest then?

Woobs, thank you for your post as well, respecting the additional heat is very important!

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When correcting my car. If the Rupes did stop spinning. I just tilted the machine, up, down, left, right. It was really no big deal.

For me the downside of using the Rupes. Was using it in tight areas. Mainly because the throw was so big, that you could bump it into a perpendicular panel without the intention to do so.

That and I was all excited that it could correct sanding marks at a body shop. While it can, it can't at the speed that could take place of a Rotary (bummer)
 
Thanks!!! I only have the 15 - and that's all I have tried. I choose the 15 because I only do my own cars and time isn't super important. When going from a GG6 to a 15 the "throw difference" seemed radical to me, also the smoothness of the 15 (compared to GG6) is quite confidence inspiring your not grinding you paint away. The only "learning curve" was just watching the edges close, because the increased throw makes it hard to judge how close you get to an edge sometimes.

The Rupes reminds me of fairy tale The Princess and the Pea. I feel like if something was going bad under the Rupes you would almost know because it's so smooth. That's just a feeling - and may not be reality. I looked at my cars panels' and realized the 21 (7" polishing face using Rupe's pads) would be too big.

Of course you could get the 21 with a 15 BP - but now your looking at another $100. It wasn't worth it to me. The Duetto is SUPPOSED to be a machine "under" the 15/21 as I understand it. So, when it becomes available as a "machine only" it may be another option.
 
I agree with everything Steve has said about the Rupes. The ease of use is great then if you add in the KB mod it makes the Rupes even that much better. I enjoy using my Rupes and I reach for it a lot and I personally love the MF pads with it as well.
 
I posted this in another thread, but thought worth repeating as it might help those making desicions regarding the Rupes.

I only own a GG DA at this point so have no first hand experience using a Rupes, but am contemplating the purchase of one so have been reading intently for the past few months.

Here is an article by Kevin Brown about the advantages of a long stroke machine that is very informative: http://www.buffdaddy.com/files/1519...Affects Sanding and Polishing Performance.pdf

I've been reading allot of threads here, on Autopia Forums and the original Autopia posted by pros who have moved to the Rupes. Here's a few findings that seem to be common amoung those opinions:

The Rupes is much less fatiguing than any other polisher bkz of the smoothness of operation and the need for so little pressure. (This is my reason for considering the Rupes as I'm perfectly happy with my GG DA's correction ability with the correct pad/product combination)

All have the Kevin Brown washer mod installed and report very little problems with the pad stop spinning once they adjust technique to using very little pressure.

Use of the Rupes is cutting down their total time to detail considerably--not just bkz of it's ability to correct quickly, but also bkz in many cases where normally they would have to do a 2 step correction they are able to move to LSP application after one step bkz the Rupes finishes so well.

Up until this point all seem to keep their GG DA or PC equipped with a 3" or 4" pad for the tight spots, but that may change with the new 3" Rupes of course.

Hope this helps.
 
I would chose the 21 over the 15 anyday, it just has more grunt and potential to correct paint. 15 with a nice light cut doesn't get any easier in terms of polishing paint.

I would not worry about "bogging", your desire out of this machine is for concentration of abrasives to create huge corrective ability and amazing shine. You want the machine to spin instead of create friction.Read Kevin Brown's article and tinker with the ideas he presents, you'll find micro abrasive non diminishing technology has totally changed the game. While the GG might seem like it has more power on the high OPMs, from what I've heard the machine overcompensates for the increased work load which can lead to excessive speed over the normal 6000 OPM.

Rotaries are always still a must in any shop for heavy sanding, but try taking a level 5K grit DA sanding finish and finishing with the right polish.
 
Woob said:
I would chose the 21 over the 15 anyday, it just has more grunt and potential to correct paint. 15 with a nice light cut doesn't get any easier in terms of polishing paint.

I would not worry about "bogging", your desire out of this machine is for concentration of abrasives to create huge corrective ability and amazing shine. You want the machine to spin instead of create friction.Read Kevin Brown's article and tinker with the ideas he presents, you'll find micro abrasive non diminishing technology has totally changed the game. While the GG might seem like it has more power on the high OPMs, from what I've heard the machine overcompensates for the increased work load which can lead to excessive speed over the normal 6000 OPM.

Rotaries are always still a must in any shop for heavy sanding, but try taking a level 5K grit DA sanding finish and finishing with the right polish.
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Why does the 21 have more grunt? I understand the longer throw can increase the speed of cutting, but the power of the electric motor on both models is 500 watts.
 
Tresca said:
Why does the 21 have more grunt? I understand the longer throw can increase the speed of cutting, but the power of the electric motor on both models is 500 watts.
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Believe there are few more build differences. I've picked both up and liked the feel of the 21 more. 15 is extremely smooth. I've also used briefly a modified 15 with a few 21 internals and it spins in a different manner.

You'll have to ask Kevin Brown for a more detailed description!
 
Woob said:
Believe there are few more build differences. I've picked both up and liked the feel of the 21 more. 15 is extremely smooth. I've also used briefly a modified 15 with a few 21 internals and it spins in a different manner.

You'll have to ask Kevin Brown for a more detailed description!
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Thanks I will try to find out. From every thing I found, the only differences are the different stroke lengths, which is longer on the 21, and the orbit speed, which is higher on the 15. And of course the BP size.
 
swanicyouth said:
Honestly, I have both machines and the Griots is more powerful than the Rupes. More powerful in the sense it's easier to stop the pad from spinning on the Rupes (not correction power). So, the Rupes has a more "safe mode" built in. You would be hard pressed to burn anything with a Rupes using skills honed on a Griots. I don't want to start the "amps/watts" discussion again, but if you compare the two you will see which is more - much more.
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I disagree. There's definitely a steep learning curve with the Rupes 21. The issue of the machine not spinning on curved panels can be greatly alleviated by doing the washer mod and making sure that the pad is centered.

The greater concern that I have is with the throw. This machine has a tendency to get the paint quite hot, and very quickly. I have personally noticed this with the Meg MF Finishing Discs and D300 or FG400. So a new user needs to be aware that paint burning is a very real possibility.

Lastly, the Rupes has a tendency to be very hard on pads -- so do not be surprised if you chew up certain pads very quickly.
 
The Critic said:
I disagree. There's definitely a steep learning curve with the Rupes 21. The issue of the machine not spinning on curved panels can be greatly alleviated by doing the washer mod and making sure that the pad is centered.

The greater concern that I have is with the throw. This machine has a tendency to get the paint quite hot, and very quickly. I have personally noticed this with the Meg MF Finishing Discs and D300 or FG400. So a new user needs to be aware that paint burning is a very real possibility.

Lastly, the Rupes has a tendency to be very hard on pads -- so do not be surprised if you chew up certain pads very quickly.
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In your experience, is it easier to stop the Rupes (15/21) pad from spinning that a Griot's Garage 6" machine? Have you tried Rupes pads?
 
swanicyouth said:
In your experience, is it easier to stop the Rupes (15/21) pad from spinning that a Griot's Garage 6" machine? Have you tried Rupes pads?
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I have a Rupes 21 and a Flex 3401, but I have never used the Griots.

To date, I have tried the following pads on my Rupes 21:
- Rupes Yellow 7”
- Rupes White 7”
- Uber Green 6.5”
- Meguiars MF Finishing Disc 6”
- LC orange cutting 6.5”

When using the MF discs, it is very difficult to get the pad to stop spinning. I personally feel that the Rupes 21 and the Meg MF Finishing Disc is a match in heaven; it is incredibly smooth and easy to navigate. The disc gives you great cut and a very good finish with FG400.

The Rupes yellow pad is the ones that are most problematic, IMO. I think it has to do with the heavy weight of the pad. When the Yellow pads are new, they are very stiff and hard. You really need to use them on a flat surface (roof, hood or trunklid) for a couple cars to break them in. Otherwise, if you try to use them on curvy vertical panels (when new), the pad will almost “skip” because it’s so hard – and as you can imagine, it is also easy for the pad to stop spinning.

I am not trying to say that the Rupes is not a good machine – I think it’s great. But a new user should be aware that it may be a challenge to keep certain pads spinning on the slightest curved panel. Plus paint burning is definitely a real possibility given the right combo.
 
I ordered the RUPES 12E Duetto kit. From my understanding, it keeps the pad spinning better than the 15/21. That would make sense from a basic physics standpoint. Still, the 12mm throw will outperform and other PC style polisher. I'll add the washer mod which will give it even more rotation. I prefer the PC style chassis of the 12E as well. I'm very excited to use this polisher.


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The Critic said:
I have a Rupes 21 and a Flex 3401, but I have never used the Griots.

To date, I have tried the following pads on my Rupes 21:
- Rupes Yellow 7”
- Rupes White 7”
- Uber Green 6.5”
- Meguiars MF Finishing Disc 6”
- LC orange cutting 6.5”

When using the MF discs, it is very difficult to get the pad to stop spinning. I personally feel that the Rupes 21 and the Meg MF Finishing Disc is a match in heaven; it is incredibly smooth and easy to navigate. The disc gives you great cut and a very good finish with FG400.

The Rupes yellow pad is the ones that are most problematic, IMO. I think it has to do with the heavy weight of the pad. When the Yellow pads are new, they are very stiff and hard. You really need to use them on a flat surface (roof, hood or trunklid) for a couple cars to break them in. Otherwise, if you try to use them on curvy vertical panels (when new), the pad will almost “skip” because it’s so hard – and as you can imagine, it is also easy for the pad to stop spinning.

I am not trying to say that the Rupes is not a good machine – I think it’s great. But a new user should be aware that it may be a challenge to keep certain pads spinning on the slightest curved panel. Plus paint burning is definitely a real possibility given the right combo.
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Try using smaller foam pads on the 21 with a 5" BP. I think it'll make a significant difference. If you haven't done the washer mod, do that too.



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Tresca said:
Well I ordered the Rupes LHR15ES after I asked and received confirmation from the factory that the LHR15ES was not being discontinued. However, now I'm having second thoughts on my selection.

I had picked the 15 over the 21 because I could use the 5.5" pads I have now and familiar with, plus I felt the 15 would be a little easier to handle in tighter areas. But now I'm reading posts that the 15 is much more likely to stop the pad on curvy panels and if pressure is applied. The opposite of what I had read before deciding on the 15. Does anyone now the return procedure at AQ. It looks like I should have ordered the 21 and a 5" BP.
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With the Kevin Brown mod my Rupes 15 almost never Boggs down on curves. YouTube it and you'll be happy you did.😃
 
How can the Rupes provide so much more correction ability with only a 4 amp motor when the GG has a 7 amp and even the PCXP has a 4.2 amp? Is the Rupes that much more efficient electrically and mechanically?
 
Tresca said:
How can the Rupes provide so much more correction ability with only a 4 amp motor when the GG has a 7 amp and even the PCXP has a 4.2 amp? Is the Rupes that much more efficient electrically and mechanically?
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If you would take the time to read the information provided to you--you wouldn't be asking this question.

As posted earlier in this thread:

"Here is an article by Kevin Brown about the advantages of a long stroke machine that is very informative: http://www.buffdaddy.com/files/15195...erformance.pdf"

It answers your question very well.
 
Hello.

I see you have a though decision my friend, although you already had some nice opinions/ suggestions.

What I do understand in this case is the fact you want to jump from a 'simple' DA to a more sophisticated/professional machine.

My 0.2 cents is that switching from your conventional PC to a GG will be an improvement (no doubt about it), however in no time you'll be willing to order the 'more professional tool' afterwards...

What I mean is, just after you master the 'middle line' of DAs (PCXP, G110v2, GG - really short learning curve), you will want to go further again, so you'll end up buying the Rupes you want (thus spending money 2 times).

After mastering a professional level machine, there's 'no further' you can go with buying new machine (you already have the TOP), just work hard to improve your almost perfect results every time you use it until perfection. Those tools are the best you can get to work with.

However, if you are willing to pay the price for a Rupes, I hardly recommend for you to do some research regarding 'Rupes vs Flex 3401'. Ok, they are different 'beasts', but at the same price range you cannot discard the Flex as an option. Just consider and re-consider Pros and Cons in each case for your particular needs.

Personally I would stick with 3401 and use the PC with smaller backing plate for spots (as stated before), but again, just my 0.2 cents.

Not saying GG is not good, but having more sophisticated machines in the market will always keep you thinking... 'What if I have a Rupes/Flex?' You can end that doubt now by ordering the higher-end you can afford.

Looking forward to hear your decision,

Kind Regards.
 
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