HD Speed - wrong pad choice or bad technique?

paul_g said:
Not to hi-jack the thread but, Joe, have you tried speed with the BOSS pads?
I do use Speed with CCS pads, but I use one pad per body panel, therefore I haven't had any issues, but I can see where one would.
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When I use speed, i call those "production buff jobs"

So I tend not to use my boss pads for "production buffs" and only my high end paint correction when I am getting properly compensated for my time.

However i have used hd speed on a older orange boss correcting pad and it worked really well.

Just stay away from closed cell technology and the wax won't gum up over the pad.

I tend to use the lake country flat pads for my all in one jobs, they cut enough to make a difference in neglected paint, they work with HD speed really well working nice and wet. And will finish down great.

I find that finishing sealant does not gum up like HD speed, that is why in my video I prime the pad, with HD speed I would NEVER prime my pad like that lol.

However that is due to the protection aspect I do believe that hd speed does have better protection than finishing sealant. I have not tested this personally but I do believe that to be the case.
 
evo77 said:
Thanks guys. I don't think I've ever noticed threads discussing the need for multiple pads. If there were I must have completely missed them. :( This pad costed $10. So I'll have to spend another $50 for five more??
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Id say you really missed alot of it then cause that topic is most likely in every single discussion we have had here about polishing...especially when a noob comes in and asks. Its talked about frequently.

That said I will usually use about 4 pads but most times I do half the car, come inside and wash the pads and start again tomorrow with the 4 clean pads. So really I would be using 8 I guess.
 
Joe@NextLevelDetail said:
When I use speed, i call those "production buff jobs"

So I tend not to use my boss pads for "production buffs" and only my high end paint correction when I am getting properly compensated for my time.

However i have used hd speed on a older orange boss correcting pad and it worked really well.

Just stay away from closed cell technology and the wax won't gum up over the pad.

I tend to use the lake country flat pads for my all in one jobs, they cut enough to make a difference in neglected paint, they work with HD speed really well working nice and wet. And will finish down great.

I find that finishing sealant does not gum up like HD speed, that is why in my video I prime the pad, with HD speed I would NEVER prime my pad like that lol.

However that is due to the protection aspect I do believe that hd speed does have better protection than finishing sealant. I have not tested this personally but I do believe that to be the case.
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Wow, I can't believe you would make such a blanket statement on something that everyone has a different opinion on. I personally only use speed and poxy with closed cell foam pads. I use buff and shine orange 5.5 medium cut pads and white 5.5 heavy polishing pads with speed and I use buff and shine red 5.5 inch pads with poxy. All three pads use closed cell foam and as someone who has tried ever type of open cell/closed cell pad I know it come down to pure personal preference and buffing style/technique. Closed cell pads work just as well if not better for me because I prefer to work smaller areas and prefer to stop more to apply fresh product rather that push the pad down on the paint to release the product so I can continue working. With closed cell I don't have to worry about the pad becoming heavily saturated in product since the pad is designed to keep the product on the surface. Where an open cell pad distributes product based on pressure which even though you can cover more ground can be harder to control. Not to mention once a pad is heavily saturated there is far more stress on your tool to maintain consistent pad rotation. I just don't think it helps anyone to state opinions as fact. Neither pad is right or wrong. That is why pad company's offer so many different open cell/closed cell options
 
mwoywod said:
Wow, I can't believe you would make such a blanket statement on something that everyone has a different opinion on. I personally only use speed and poxy with closed cell foam pads. I use buff and shine orange 5.5 medium cut pads and white 5.5 heavy polishing pads with speed and I use buff and shine red 5.5 inch pads with poxy. All three pads use closed cell foam and as someone who has tried ever type of open cell/closed cell pad I know it come down to pure personal preference and buffing style/technique. Closed cell pads work just as well if not better for me because I prefer to work smaller areas and prefer to stop more to apply fresh product rather that push the pad down on the paint to release the product so I can continue working. With closed cell I don't have to worry about the pad becoming heavily saturated in product since the pad is designed to keep the product on the surface. Where an open cell pad distributes product based on pressure which even though you can cover more ground can be harder to control. Not to mention once a pad is heavily saturated there is far more stress on your tool to maintain consistent pad rotation. I just don't think it helps anyone to state opinions as fact. Neither pad is right or wrong. That is why pad company's offer so many different open cell/closed cell options
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Those particular Buff and Shine pads are open cell European prepolymer. They feature a smaller cell structure than would otherwise be found on an American "filter foam" pad.

True closed cell pads are Buff and Shine Uro-Cell, Lake Country Hydrotech, and the old burgundy Meguiar's foam cutting pad. Not sure about their new one.

The nice thing about closed cell is that everything stays on the surface. Same with the European foams, albeit to a lesser degree. For me, they just don't cut like the open cell pads.

They all have their pluses, and minuses, but I enjoy using all of them!
 
dlc95 said:
Those particular Buff and Shine pads are open cell European prepolymer. They feature a smaller cell structure than would otherwise be found on an American "filter foam" pad.

True closed cell pads are Buff and Shine Uro-Cell, Lake Country Hydrotech, and the old burgundy Meguiar's foam cutting pad. Not sure about their new one.

The nice thing about closed cell is that everything stays on the surface. Same with the European foams, albeit to a lesser degree. For me, they just don't cut like the open cell pads.

They all have their pluses, and minuses, but I enjoy using all of them!
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Thank you so much for setting me straight. I actually did not realize that, I've always just thought that the B&s euro prepolymers were closed cell since they are so dense. I love when you chime in on pads, I've learned more from you about what I like and what I don't like than anyone else.ha. Although I have a really hard time understanding your love for the green polishing, I was never able to figure out exactly how to use them....I'm pretty sure I've read posts where you talked about using them as your primary cutting pad. You're a freak.lol

BTW, I LOVE the Uro-cell pads (especially the orange and red) the blue seems to have some of the similar durability issues as the hydro tech but as long as I swap them out frequently they won't shred or get too hot. The only time I have a situation that calls for the blue cutting pad I'll be using it with a rotary so I probably introduced too much heat into the first one. I'm trying to switch over to using primarily the uro-cell line since they are such great value but unfortunately buff and shine doesn't offer a 4 inch pad option for the Uro-cell/uro-tech pad line although I'm hoping that will change in 2017.
 
First time I tried HD Speed was with a LC Hydro Tech pad...was immediately apparent that wasn't gonna work well.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
Ha ha....

I saw this thread on the home page and thought I would chime in and then on page 3 I found out I already did.


Mike Phillips said:
Speed is a one-step cleaner/wax. With compounds and polishes, the liquids are either solvents or water and usually some combination of both and they are more or less water soluble. With a cleaner/wax or a cleaner/sealant you have water insoluble products that provide the long lasting protection and it is these ingredients that can build up and become gummy just as a characteristic of these types of ingredients.

Cleaning your pad often will help but in a perfect world more pads is better.


How many pads do I need to buff out my car?


Here's a write-up I did buffing out Wayne Carini's Rainman Car. I used McKee's Jeweling Wax which is also a one-step cleaner/wax. I took pictures showing how many pads I used.


How to jewel paint with McKee's 37 Jeweling Wax and a Porter Cable 7424XP


Starting out
Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_016.jpg




After I was done - note the pads have wax on them...

Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_031.jpg



Stick a fork in it because this car is DONE!

Wayne_Carini_Rainman_Car_025.jpg





When buffing out cars using a one-step cleaner/wax you actually want to use the product heavy or wet. The words heavy and wet are TERMS for how much product to use. When you rely on a SINGLE product to,

  1. Clean/abrade
  2. Polish
  3. Protect
You want a lot of the product or a lot of the liquids on the surface WORKING FOR YOU. The more neglected the paint the wetter you use the product (to a degree).


Check out what I say about using one-step cleaner/waxes in post #3 of this article,


How to choose and use a one-step cleaner/wax by Mike Phillips


Because you use a one-step cleaner/wax (also generically called an AIO), you want to use a lot of pads so you can switch to a clean, dry pad often.


:)
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I'll stick to what I wrote and the information I linked to is accurate for the context of using cleaner/waxes.


:)
 
Thanks Mike,

I understand why you want to use alot of product and a lot of pads.

I am just completely lost as to how people who've tried to use closed cell pads like a crimson hydro-tech pad are coming to the conclusion that is wasn't going to work, especailly when these pads were designed to keep product on the surface?

If you are constantly switching out pads (as you should be) I don't understand what the problem is with using a closed cell pad? This is confusing for me, I'm sorry ahead of time to those of you who are willing to explain it to me in layman's terms.

lol
 
mwoywod said:
Thank you so much for setting me straight. I actually did not realize that, I've always just thought that the B&s euro prepolymers were closed cell since they are so dense. I love when you chime in on pads, I've learned more from you about what I like and what I don't like than anyone else.ha. Although I have a really hard time understanding your love for the green polishing, I was never able to figure out exactly how to use them....I'm pretty sure I've read posts where you talked about using them as your primary cutting pad. You're a freak.lol

BTW, I LOVE the Uro-cell pads (especially the orange and red) the blue seems to have some of the similar durability issues as the hydro tech but as long as I swap them out frequently they won't shred or get too hot. The only time I have a situation that calls for the blue cutting pad I'll be using it with a rotary so I probably introduced too much heat into the first one. I'm trying to switch over to using primarily the uro-cell line since they are such great value but unfortunately buff and shine doesn't offer a 4 inch pad option for the Uro-cell/uro-tech pad line although I'm hoping that will change in 2017.
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Thanks!!

Well, those white pads seem to be a blend of both closed, and open cells. I love them for general polishing, and for cleaner waxes.

If you're using a Hydrotech with HD Speed, it probably allows you to get away with using even less product, than one would normally use with an open cell.

It probably works great with your personal approach. The Hydrotech pads are excellent, and still some of my favorite foams.
 
Mike Phillips said:
Speed is a one-step cleaner/wax. With compounds and polishes, the liquids are either solvents or water and usually some combination of both and they are more or less water soluble. With a cleaner/wax or a cleaner/sealant you have water insoluble products that provide the long lasting protection and it is these ingredients that can build up and become gummy just as a characteristic of these types of ingredients.
Click to expand...

There you go, I think it sums up.
 
mwoywod said:
Thanks Mike,

I understand why you want to use alot of product and a lot of pads.

I am just completely lost as to how people who've tried to use closed cell pads like a crimson hydro-tech pad are coming to the conclusion that is wasn't going to work, especailly when these pads were designed to keep product on the surface?

If you are constantly switching out pads (as you should be) I don't understand what the problem is with using a closed cell pad?
Click to expand...


I've had good luck using Crimson Hydro-tech pads to machine apply finishing waxes or sealants. I don't remeber using them for applying cleaner/waxes?

There's a HUGE differecne between machine applying a cleaner/wax and machine applying a finishing wax or a non-cleaning wax.


Just to note... in the second season of Competition Ready there will be segments in each show where I share Tech Tips. One of the segments will be on the difference between a finishing wax and a cleaner/wax.



:)
 
My technique with HD Speed is to "X" a pattern on my LC Hybrid pad initially and then about 3 pea sized drops for each subsequent section. My initial pad load (X pattern) is maybe half the amount of 5 dime sized dabs. I also go through A LOT of pads. My "wet/soapy" rinse bucket is filled with about as many pads as Mike has pictured in his stack of pads picture post job. For me, there is nothing better than grabbing a fresh pad!

I also work Speed for a long time. When I initially started using it I didn't work it too long for fear of not leaving enough of the protection component. Now I let the other 2 components do their thing longer. And a longer working time means I retire that loaded pad sooner.
 
Thank you guys for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I love learning about the different types of foams people use and hearing what their experiences have been with them. I never would have guessed there would be so many people partial to the open-cell pad design.

Mike, do you know if Autogeek plans on carrying any new Buff and Shine foam pads or if there is any plan to start carrying the new uro-cell foams? I thought they would be the most popular when they were first announced, but I guess they aren't selling well since PBMG isn't offering them. Shoot!
 
One person in this thread has mentioned NOT to prime the pad when using HD Speed. Any other input?
 
TMQ said:
See below---Written by Mike Phillips.

The key to using one-step cleaner/waxes on neglected cars is to use these types of products heavy or wet.

It's always stated,

Apply a thin coat of wax

And that's true for a non-cleaning LSP that's being applied to paint in perfect condition.

But when using a one-step cleaner/wax or AIO on neglected paint you want plenty of abrasives, chemical cleaners, cleaning solvents and lubrication to be working for you to undo the damage.

That's what is meant by using a product heavy or wet.

Don't overuse a product just don't skimp when using cleaner/waxes. Save the skimping for the thin layer of a show car wax or sealant.

Tom
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Tom imho and personal experience this doesn't apply to Speed, it's the direct opposite. On 3d's website (youtube google HD Speed 1:24 minute video) their guru shows 4 dime size drops. I personally prefer 5 large pea sized drops. But priming the pad or using Speed heavy and wet leads to saturated pads and gummy pads.
 
Wrong place! Was supposed to post in another thread!

Sorry...

Tom
 
And for what it's worth...don't over do product but don't be shy either.

I have used it heavy and I don't have gummy pads. But I do change pads out often.

Tom
 
custmsprty said:
Tom imho and personal experience this doesn't apply to Speed, it's the direct opposite. On 3d's website (youtube google HD Speed 1:24 minute video) their guru shows 4 dime size drops. I personally prefer 5 large pea sized drops. But priming the pad or using Speed heavy and wet leads to saturated pads and gummy pads.
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I too noticed that discrepancy. I supposed HD Speed is a bit of an exception to being used heavy. I'll go with 4-5 dots instead.
 
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