Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea

[mr.fusion]

Hello all. I've been using this method for a couple small used car lots where I live for about a year now. I have a few questions for you all. I've been experimenting with some less expensive 3" sanding discs and just want some feedback from the group. I started with strictly 3M discs but then found some much cheaper. I just want to compare what others are using to see if the ones I am using are ok or if I need to go back to the 3M. The other problem that I've run into is newer headlamps that only have partial deterioration at the tops seem to be extremely hard to sand through the bottom part to remove all of the original coating. I've had to literally hand sand it dry with 60 grit paper and then go in with wet 280, 400, 800, 1500 and 3000. Can others offer any advice? This process takes me about 3 hours. Thanks for the help. Love the forum.

Aj

Simple. Don't take off all the "good" clearcoat. Take out the damage at the top of the lens, slightly overlapping from on grit to the next just to be sure not to leave any heavy scratches behind. When you get to the last step, such as 3000 grit... then hit the whole lens. Quick compound if you want, then hit it with the 50/50. Really, you shouldn't have to compound or polish if you are doing a clearcoat, if you take it down to 3000-4000.

btw, I very rarely go below 600g to start out. In fact, it's been a couple years... I had two really bad Impalas from Florida that had some weird coating on them, and I went to 360 or 400 to start. You should never have to bust out 220, let alone 60!!! :buffing:

I still prefer to polish it out and skip the "clearcoat" quite often when doing dealer work. Depends on the vehicle and extent of damage. In some cases, I just fix the top of the lens... blend it out and polish. End result looks very good and most of the lens still has good original CC

 

[93fox]

Simple. Don't take off all the "good" clearcoat. Take out the damage at the top of the lens, slightly overlapping from on grit to the next just to be sure not to leave any heavy scratches behind. When you get to the last step, such as 3000 grit... then hit the whole lens. Quick compound if you want, then hit it with the 50/50. Really, you shouldn't have to compound or polish if you are doing a clearcoat, if you take it down to 3000-4000.

btw, I very rarely go below 600g to start out. In fact, it's been a couple years... I had two really bad Impalas from Florida that had some weird coating on them, and I went to 360 or 400 to start. You should never have to bust out 220, let alone 60!!! :buffing:

I still prefer to polish it out and skip the "clearcoat" quite often when doing dealer work. Depends on the vehicle and extent of damage. In some cases, I just fix the top of the lens... blend it out and polish. End result looks very good and most of the lens still has good original CC

just a tip.... as soon as you place any sort of abrasive on the lense you are completely removing the "clear" or coating that the headlight previously had. If they are not coated again with some type of protection, its just a matter of months till they turn yellow again. you might want to look at these new coatings out in the market that offer years of protection. such as cquartz, opti coat and gtechniq.

 

[mr.fusion]

Just recently stumbled across the forum here and it's been a good read and I'm shocked to see how many have jumped into the headlight thing. Last time I did much online browsing a some time ago, there was only a handful of "HL" products available and it was still more of a novelty to most.

I've been doing headlights since the mid 90's before I knew of anyone else doing it, so I was self taught and experimented with everything you can imagine :buffing: and have sure done some things the hard way, looking back lol. I haven't used every coating product and application method out there, but have tried a few. I now have opticoat on the way and it has renewed my interest in banging out some HL work :dblthumb2:

Anyway... the lights referred to are the ones that only have some deterioration at the top of the lens, with most of the lens actually in good shape. Factory clear that's not completely broken down is not easy to remove with 2000+grit or trizact pad, etc. Just a light scuff to prep for clear or compound.... same as correcting paint clear. Of course... the clear IS gone at the top of the lens either way, so that should be noted if you opt to not put on a coating.

Full disclosure... I mostly do dealer work and what matters most is making the cars shine inside and out until they sell. It's a bit different than chasing retail work. Having said that, doing a "polish and wax" job is still a good option for some jobs IMO, and does have it's advantages. You can get a perfect finish without any flaws of a spray or wipe on coating.

Done right, many of the newer vehicle HL stay looking good for months without clear. But I admit it's not easy to end up with a perfect polish job... a coating hides all the flaws and is probably quicker and easier in most cases. Did a early 00's bmw for a salesman a few years ago, (polish job... no coating) and he said it still looked good a year later when he sold it. He may have kept some protectant on it like I told him to, but not sure.

On the flip side, I've seen other lights go bad much sooner than that, even with a coating.
Ex: I did a late 90's Dodge truck a few years back. I don't think it looked good for even 6 months. (Was the first coating I know of that was "for headlights"... although I think it ended up never making it to market. They claimed test cars were looking good after more than a year, and counting.) I'm always skeptical of mfg claims about how long their product/system lasts, partly due to that damn dodge truck. :bash:

 

[Part-timer]

What about sanding discs? Are there any specific brands or type that you all recommend or will any type do? I found some from "Abrasive Resource" that sell for $22.00 for 100 discs. The 3M I've found run more than double that price.

 

[DaHen]

What about sanding discs? Are there any specific brands or type that you all recommend or will any type do?

I've ordered some of Meguiars Unigrits that will be arriving in a couple of hours. But will be awhile before I'll be able to give them a try.

 

[roswell630]

Great read. Almost makes me want to make my headlights cloudy so I can try...

 

[Part-timer]

I've been doing these headlights for about 1 year now. I read a few posts about streaking and wonder if this is happening to you, like it does me sometimes. I don't have a shop and just do them on the weekends outside for extra cash. I found that on a windy day, I get more streaks, I'm guessing because its trying to dry too quickly. I found that using a larger piece of shop towel with more absorbtion works better under those conditions. I am also trying to lower my costs on sanding discs. The 3M's I was using are about $25 for a box of 50. I found some at $17.95 for 50 and another source has them $22 for 100. The only problem I see with the $22 ones is the backing is stiff and doesn't conform well with the rounded surfaces of most headlights. I'm going to check into the Meguiar's ones(thanks for that info) I have been using the Spar mix method and it works great but if your contain(can) lid doesn't seal, the spar turns to crap pretty fast and also getts dark colored. Keep a fresh can on hand. I wet sand all phases of sanding and use.....400, 800, 1500, and used to use 3000 3M trizact(until they went to over $50 for 15 discs) and now using compound and by-passing the 3000 all together. Working good so far. Thanks to everyone for advice and tips.

 

[93fox]

I've been doing these headlights for about 1 year now. I read a few posts about streaking and wonder if this is happening to you, like it does me sometimes. I don't have a shop and just do them on the weekends outside for extra cash. I found that on a windy day, I get more streaks, I'm guessing because its trying to dry too quickly. I found that using a larger piece of shop towel with more absorbtion works better under those conditions. I am also trying to lower my costs on sanding discs. The 3M's I was using are about $25 for a box of 50. I found some at $17.95 for 50 and another source has them $22 for 100. The only problem I see with the $22 ones is the backing is stiff and doesn't conform well with the rounded surfaces of most headlights. I'm going to check into the Meguiar's ones(thanks for that info) I have been using the Spar mix method and it works great but if your contain(can) lid doesn't seal, the spar turns to crap pretty fast and also getts dark colored. Keep a fresh can on hand. I wet sand all phases of sanding and use.....400, 800, 1500, and used to use 3000 3M trizact(until they went to over $50 for 15 discs) and now using compound and by-passing the 3000 all together. Working good so far. Thanks to everyone for advice and tips.

Just a tip. I believe your jump from 400 to 800 is too high. 600 should be in the middle. The jump from 800 to 1500 is also too high. Once you finish hit the lense with an LED flash light and im sure you'll see visible scratches. These are also downright visible under direct sunlight. Some people are too picky and will complain. I still dont understand why people go all the way down to 400 when 600 to 800 takes all the haze out in a matter of minutes. Even 800 does the trick.

 

[mr.fusion]

What about sanding discs? Are there any specific brands or type that you all recommend or will any type do? I found some from "Abrasive Resource" that sell for $22.00 for 100 discs. The 3M I've found run more than double that price.

I've seen complete garbage generic sandpaper before, but not with this type of stuff... 1000-3000 grit discs tend to be good quality, not from dollar store type companies. Those 22/100 discs would have to be really stiff to be a problem for a 3" size DA. I guess I've not seen high grit discs that are stiff like 60 grit. Have you actually tried them?

I've not used the Unigrit discs, but I have used the Unigrit sheets for a long time and they are great for wet sanding by hand. I also have 3" 3M discs and trizact... good stuff but not cheap for sure.

I normally use a 5" DA and Norton discs for the initial steps, dry. Then go to a wet 2000-3000 either by hand or 3" disc with a rotary, before polish or coating. I'm about to pick up a griots 3" and some 3" discs for the smaller lights.

 

[mr.fusion]

I agree that 600-800 is good to start with. I prefer to start at 1000 if possible. There have been a couple times I wish I had 400, just to speed it up... but that's very rare which is why I don't bother to keep anything less than 600.

 

[93fox]

:whs:

:thankyousign:



people just dont get it that you should always start with the least aggresive method first. oh well!

 

[Part-timer]

:buffing:93fox....its not that I "don't get it".......I've tried starting with 1000, I've tried starting with 800, I've tried starting with 600 and I've tried starting with 400. Each job is different. If the headlights are really bad its great to start out with 1000 or 800 but most of the ones I get have quite a bit of good original clear on them and a small amount of bad part at the top. I tried just doing the bad part on an expedition this morning and couldn't get it to blend into the good part without a visable line. As I've said before, I'm not a body repair man.....just a regular guy looking for some input and trying to make a few bucks to get through these tough times. I've tried many different grits on the "good" clearcote to remove it and nothing seems to touch it, so through trial and error have been forced to get aggressive right away. Thats why I'm wondering if its the discs that I'm using or if Nissans, Chevy's and some others have super clearcotes or what?:buffing:

 

[Part-timer]

I probably do need to use more grits in between because I do have some issues sometimes with swirls and have to end up hand sanding them out with 1500 or 2000. I was just following Hotrods original method of 400, 800, 1500, 3000. I don't see how anyone can do this in 30-40 minutes either. I end up spending between 2-3 hours from taping to clean-up and now will be longer if I add more steps....ugh!

 

[93fox]

I probably do need to use more grits in between because I do have some issues sometimes with swirls and have to end up hand sanding them out with 1500 or 2000. I was just following Hotrods original method of 400, 800, 1500, 3000. I don't see how anyone can do this in 30-40 minutes either. I end up spending between 2-3 hours from taping to clean-up and now will be longer if I add more steps....ugh!

2-3 hours? You have to be joking.

 

[mr.fusion]

I think you are killing yourself by removing ALL of the factory clear, especially since you are doing a spar coating. If the bottom 2/3 of the lens still has good rock hard clear coat, just hit it with whatever final abrasive step you use on the damaged area. Then finish with whole thing... compound/polish/spar... whatever.
The 3M 3000 are stupid expensive, but it's probably still worth it depending on the process you do. If you are taking the sanding steps up to at least 2000, then just a quick hit with a 3m 3000 disc by hand or machine should leave a good surface to finish. Spar coating will look good on top of that, or you can polish it out pretty easy from there.

Some jobs can be a nightmare, but I've never spent anywhere near 2-3 hours on a car. I wouldn't ever touch a headlight job if that was the case. I get cranky if it takes more than like half an hour LOL. One hour would be understandable, if you take your time and do everything by the book.

btw, when I first stared using the trizact discs, they only had them in the 6" size and it was only $40-45 for a box of 15. But the price kept going up...now it's more than that just for 3" and I think the 6" are like $70+.

 

[93fox]

I think you are killing yourself by removing ALL of the factory clear, especially since you are doing a spar coating. If the bottom 2/3 of the lens still has good rock hard clear coat, just hit it with whatever final abrasive step you use on the damaged area. Then finish with whole thing... compound/polish/spar... whatever.
The 3M 3000 are stupid expensive, but it's probably still worth it depending on the process you do. If you are taking the sanding steps up to at least 2000, then just a quick hit with a 3m 3000 disc by hand or machine should leave a good surface to finish. Spar coating will look good on top of that, or you can polish it out pretty easy from there.

Some jobs can be a nightmare, but I've never spent anywhere near 2-3 hours on a car. I wouldn't ever touch a headlight job if that was the case. I get cranky if it takes more than like half an hour LOL. One hour would be understandable, if you take your time and do everything by the book.

btw, when I first stared using the trizact discs, they only had them in the 6" size and it was only $40-45 for a box of 15. But the price kept going up...now it's more than that just for 3" and I think the 6" are like $70+.

I agree. Its why i keep telling the people here that 800 and 600 do the job perfectly. Its not about taking the whole thing off and applying a new one. Its about bring back to life whats ALREADY THERE. And i agree with you too on doing a pair in 20 to 40 mins. I just cant understand why people spends hours doing a pair. If you start at 800 and you sand it and you see the yellow haze gone, thats it, move to the next grit. Trizacts are $90 something for a box of 15 6"... Its an arm and a leg if you ask me. Thats why for 3000g i use meguiars finishing paper. Yes i do it by hand but $26 for 25 sheets its alot cheaper and effective in my book.

 

[Part-timer]

Could you please explain your procedure of doing it and the type of tools you use so I could have a better understanding. I'm stuck using a lightweight angle drill with 3" Hookit interface. I am wet sanding the whole way(because dry sanding just plugs up the discs right away) Maybe I need to use a DA? I don't have a compressor big enough right now to run a good one and room is an issue as well. Sorry to be such a pain. I was a professional auto tech for 22 years and have a huge assortment of tools. I started out when cars were still made of metal and used carburetors on up through MC solenoids, Programmable Read Only Memory and 8 on-board computers controlling everything from brakes to the entire powertrain, but I've never done bodywork, so (unfortunately for me) this is kinda new territory. So, I hope you can bear with me a bit and have some mercy.....lol

 

[93fox]

Could you please explain your procedure of doing it and the type of tools you use so I could have a better understanding. I'm stuck using a lightweight angle drill with 3" Hookit interface. I am wet sanding the whole way(because dry sanding just plugs up the discs right away) Maybe I need to use a DA? I don't have a compressor big enough right now to run a good one and room is an issue as well. Sorry to be such a pain. I was a professional auto tech for 22 years and have a huge assortment of tools. I started out when cars were still made of metal and used carburetors on up through MC solenoids, Programmable Read Only Memory and 8 on-board computers controlling everything from brakes to the entire powertrain, but I've never done bodywork, so (unfortunately for me) this is kinda new territory. So, I hope you can bear with me a bit and have some mercy.....lol

I do everything by hand! I wetsand as well but i do it all by hand. I have found it to be faster this way. If something gets caught between the disk and the lense then it is a big problem, its why i stopped using my drill. I have found it it to be a little quicker by hand.

 

[02nissanISR]

Part timer also if you look at the power kits for headlights like meguiars they use orbital for sanding and rotary for polishing. You may be getting to much heat with the drill therefore clogging the discs.

 

[mr.fusion]

I never liked dry sanding with a rotary either. I always wet sand if using a drill or by hand. For hand sanding, I really like the Meg Unigrit paper. I get the 5"x9" packs at a local auto parts store.

I use a basic 5" variable speed palm sander... bosch, dewalt, pc, etc. It can be tricky to work a 5" sander on some headlights. I work without tape most of the time so I have to be really careful. The 3" Griots polisher should be easier to work with, and appears to be a good tool. If you already are using 3" discs, I think the getting the Griots is a no brainer. Here's a video by deltakits that shows a 3" sander being used, and is pretty close to the method I would recommend. Their kits now use the Griots, not the Metabo. I think the guy says 600 grit when he means 1000 grit, btw. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzfGE-jWqZE&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Headlight Restoration by Delta Kits‬‏[/video]

I get some gumming up on the sander once in a while, but it's not a big issue.... a quick scrape to clear the disc of gunk, or grab a new one. I've done plenty 100% by hand also and it works fine, but if you have several cars to do, it can be a real workout. That's why I kept going back to power tools of some sort. I'm doing cars for dealers and I want to do it quick and move on. Really, it should only take a few minutes per lens to go through 3-4 sanding steps. I've done all cordless, all by hand, and right now I'm doing mostly 110v tools. I will do it by hand if power isn't easily available.