Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea

[light-bright]

Great info.

1. Have you had any problems with the spar/OMS mixture degrading the plastic bottles? I recently used a red Solo brand cup for mixing, and a couple of hours later, when I went to throw the cup in the dumpster, I found that the mixture had eaten through and destroyed the cup.

2. Have you had any problems with premixing the spar and OMS? I'm wondering if the OMS will degrade the spar when premixed. Any idea on how long you can store the mixture before you need to throw it out and make a fresh batch?

1. I have not had any issues whatsoever with bottle deterioration. I Have reused the same bottles now for close to 3 months.

2. As of yet, I have seen no issues with the premix. I don't mix a lot at a time, it's really only like 4 bottles at 3oz each. To my knowledge the OMS will have no permanent affect on the Spar, it is simply thinning it until the OMS evaporates. If the mixture is unused for long enough and the bottle is...say, half empty, then yes the Spar will start to cure and you have to be aware of this. What I tend to do if I think it may be an issue is either clean it out before it starts to cure, or I simply mix another ounce and add it to the bottle. In a pinch, on the job, I have had it not self level, and I cleaned it off the lens, added just a tiny amount of OMS to the bottle, shook it up and started over. Worked out just fine.


My personal headlights have been done by me last August, and they still look perfect with the exception of a bug or two and maybe a rock chip. AZ has a lot of rocks. I have done no touch up since the initial application. The only thing that is done, is I use a Circle K car wash by my house. (I know....I said that on a DETAILERS forum) I always do the full wash with the Rain-X protectant. I do have customers that have been over a year and I have checked, their cars still look great. Not to mention others on here, so I don't think the Spar method is really only a 1 year coating. I do wish there was an easy to apply non-spray coating that cured in minutes that would absolutely last longer and be cheap enough. I haven't seen one though.

I saw on another post a recipe for stripping headlights using mean green and tire cleaner. Has anyone tried it?

Also, Impalas are becoming an item. Has anyone tried just removing the deteriorated part of the coating then recoating the entire headlight? If the original coating is as tough as it seems, the only problem would be if the coating you're using would stick to the original coating and not chemically interfere. Might be a great time saver.
ray6

From what I read that is the formula used by one of the proprietary companies. I can say it will get the "yellow" out but it won't strip the old UV coating as far as I could tell.

I haven't done an Impala yet, but I had 2 Buicks that sound like they were is big of a PITA as you are talking. That original coating was so hard it nearly killed me to strip it. I have tried partially stripping a headlight and leaving the original "in tact" coating on. What I found was that the Spar would stick just fine on both surfaces. What I didn't like was that you could see a distinct line where the spar only met up with the spar on the original coating. I then stripped the entire lens and have been doing so ever since.

That being said... If anyone does know of a coating that would allow me to only strip partially and re-coat, please let me know. Even if I have to just use it for these cars, it would be worth double my time in gold.

 

[Part-timer]

I've tried to do a partial restore one time also and found the exact same thing. A distinct line between the two coatings which was very noticable to me. I did what you did, re-stripped it all the way down and coated the whole thing.
As for the coatings lifetimes....I suppose that it really depends on who your customer is. Most of my work is from two small used car lots. They don't want to spend an arm and a leg for the service and they are very happy with my work. They often have other people stop by to try to offer them a better deal than me. My guys are loyal to me because I am always there for them when they need me and they like my work. I have followed this and other threads for 3 years now. I have seen the results of side by side tests with Opti-coat and other products. Most do not last as long as they claim. I would love to try many other products myself and compare them(I actually have tried some others).

I tried one that claimed you could do a set of lights in less than 15 minutes. They even sent me three bottles to try with a money back guarantee. I tried it several times in different ways...exactly how they said. They looked like crapola. Sent it back!

I'd love to try out some others but they cost $84 or more and have about 1/2 the quantity of product that I get in a $14 can of Spar. I've also seen posts saying that some of these other products are less forgiving than the spar, so you need to use compound for a finer finish before applying. I've heard that, since they dry so quickly, they are harder to apply without having streaks.

Its hard for me to see how learning and changing my technique will save me time and money. It would be great to know that the lifetime was extended some, just can't afford to keep trying things out.

 

[davidc11291]

I've tried to do a partial restore one time also and found the exact same thing. A distinct line between the two coatings which was very noticable to me. I did what you did, re-stripped it all the way down and coated the whole thing.

When you say you restripped it all the way down, do you mean you stripped off the spar that you had just applied, then you coated the whole lens with spar (not sanding off the OEM clear coat that was in good condition) or did you end up having to sand off the OEM clear coat that was in good condition too?

 

[Part-timer]

When you say you restripped it all the way down, do you mean you stripped off the spar that you had just applied, then you coated the whole lens with spar (not sanding off the OEM clear coat that was in good condition) or did you end up having to sand off the OEM clear coat that was in good condition too?

I decided to sand the entire lens and restore the whole thing. I don't think its possible to do a partial job and have it look right or last long.

 

[davidc11291]

That's the same conclusion I've come to as well.

 

[reggie1967]

I decided to sand the entire lens and restore the whole thing. I don't think its possible to do a partial job and have it look right or last long.

well i got a impala to do it mostly stained up front and the rest of the light is clear, i guess the best thing is to sand the whole light down and recoated some reply with ur answer thxs

 

[davidc11291]

Re: How to prevent runs

This is so much easier in person....lol
Ok, a blue scott's towel measures approx.....10 1/2" X 11".
Fold the towel in half on the 11" side, giving you a towel that measures 10 1/2" X 5 1/2".
I just do this by looking....but to be precise....measure 2 1/2"..down the 10 1/2" side.
Now you have a strip that is 2 1/2" X 5 1/2".
Fold that in half so you then have 2 1/2" X about 2 1/2".
Then just dip the rounded part, that you just folded over, into the spar mixture and let it soak in the length of the fold to about an inch into the dry part of the towel. This should only take a second or two. Then start applying to the lens. (See picture) No re-dipping is needed. For larger lenses....I cut larger pieces than 2 1/2" wide, in order to swipe a wider path. Still no re-dipping needed. I have been doing this in Daytona Beach Florida for almost 3 years now, outside in the heat. I must admit that I schedule my jobs in advance to avoid working in the hottest part of the day, unless you have a canopy. I have learned to taylor my mixture ratios to the weather conditions though...but as of today am mostly using between 70/30 and 60/40. I also use a bigger sized cup, so that I'm not trying to shove a 3" towel in a 1" container of mix. I have tried using those foam applicators, but found that for me, they would run dry of mixture before coating the whole lens....unlike the scott's towels. I do use a different piece of scott towel for each lens.

I tried your application method out today, following your instructions exactly, and it worked PERFECTLY. It was the easiest spar application I've ever done, and it was perfect on the first attempt. The only thing I did differently was that I did not follow up with the horizontal wipes at the end. I made a circle around the outer part of the lens, then just made smaller and smaller circles to cover the middle part. I was able to get complete coverage without the spar flashing, and working in progressively smaller circles meant that while I would overlap just a little, I was never touching a section of spar that had been applied more than 5 or 10 seconds ago. Because of this, I was able to actually slow down and make sure I got perfect coverage. I spent probably 25 seconds applying it.

Thanks!

 

[Part-timer]

David....... Glad to hear that it worked for you. Thats what this forum is for. To get several ideas and methods to try, then experiment and use what method or partial method that works best for your situation.

 

[SameGuy]

For those doing this commercially and serving used car lots and dealerships -- why do you need to warrant the job any longer than the lot warrants the car to a buyer? I would imagine with floor plans, lots and dealerships are trying to turn over stock as quickly as possible, so why would you need to guarantee your work for two years, if the lot turns the car over in a matter of weeks and offers the buyer a 90-day or maybe a six-month warranty?

 

[ray6]

For those doing this commercially and serving used car lots and dealerships -- why do you need to warrant the job any longer than the lot warrants the car to a buyer? I would imagine with floor plans, lots and dealerships are trying to turn over stock as quickly as possible, so why would you need to guarantee your work for two years, if the lot turns the car over in a matter of weeks and offers the buyer a 90-day or maybe a six-month warranty?

Because most headlight restorers do more than used car lots. And some higher end lots (usually new car dealers) don't want an unsatisfied customer coming back in a few months.

There is also a potential liability issue.

Most restorers are always open to new customers such as taxi fleets, government vehicles, etc. Which require longer lifetime.

The bottom line is that the difference between an unwarrantable and warrantable coating is nothing in labor, and maybe a dollar in materials.
ray6

 

[GalKonz]

Ok guys, long time since i visited the thread. I just updated myself from around page 94 - 95 up to 101... My only question right now is about the part where you have to clean the headlights before coating, you all mention alcohol is better than OMS. 100% alcohol/propanol was mentioned... anyone knows any place where i can educate myself in the differences between the variety of alcohol types we have? I mean, like what's the difference between IPA and 100% alcohol/propanol.

Thanks.

 

[spewking]

I saw on another post a recipe for stripping headlights using mean green and tire cleaner. Has anyone tried it?

Also, Impalas are becoming an item. Has anyone tried just removing the deteriorated part of the coating then recoating the entire headlight? If the original coating is as tough as it seems, the only problem would be if the coating you're using would stick to the original coating and not chemically interfere. Might be a great time saver.
ray6

Ray, I used the SG/Bleache white mix on my first spar retoration on a 2002 Toyota Sequoia. It seemed to work great..powerful stuff...scrubbed with a 3m potscrubber (the coarse material found on the back of a sponge)...taped garbage bags below and on sides of headlight to protect paint...then cleaned with IPA, then prepped with min sp and then applied the spar mix.

I'd recommend.

David

 

[ray6]

Ok guys, long time since i visited the thread. I just updated myself from around page 94 - 95 up to 101... My only question right now is about the part where you have to clean the headlights before coating, you all mention alcohol is better than OMS. 100% alcohol/propanol was mentioned... anyone knows any place where i can educate myself in the differences between the variety of alcohol types we have? I mean, like what's the difference between IPA and 100% alcohol/propanol.

Thanks.

With respect to headlight restoration, the differences between different types of alcohol doesn't matter. As a solvent, alcohol is alcohol.

A good alcohol to use would be denatured alcohol from Home Depot or Lowes. It is 99.5% with the addition of a substance added to make it taste bad, thus denatured. Without this addition, it would be considered drinkable and be taxed the same as gin or vodka.

Mineral spirits (paint thinner) can also be used, but is not hygroscopic (combines and captures water) and evaporates slower.

The most efficient use of alcohol is to clean off any moisture from the headlight before applying your coating.

We always recommend wiping a headlight with alcohol before quoting a restoration job to a customer to determine if there is any internal deterioration (cloudiness on the inside of the headlight which is rare, and water droplets, not so rare). In this situation mineral spirits would also work, and actually give you more time to inspect the headlight because it evaporates slower.

So, denatured alcohol, methanol, propanol, methyl alcohol, ethanol, methylated spirits, etc. is all the same for our purposes.

The one exception is rubbing alcohol, which is typically 30% water. This alcohol will not adsorb moisture as well as 100%, although it will still work.

In bulk, denatured alcohol is less than 15 cents per ounce.

Mineral spirits, also known as paint thinner, is derived from passing steam through coal, then removing the water. Odor free mineral spirits is a higher grade because it is distilled again to remove the stink. Usually means a higher quality product, but I've never seen any difference as far as solvent capability. We routinely use straight paint thinner to flush out our bottling machines between product runs.

Home Depot/Lowes is probably a good source. Expect to pay about the same as alcohol. I would stay away from bargain brands at lower prices. Woludn't want to take a chance to save a few cents.

Whenever you find any brand that works for you, stick with it. Don't substitute to save money or a trip across town. You don't want to have a problem six months after a restoration.
ray6

 

[GP49]

Good summary, Ray.

But note that the denaturants used in denatured alcohol can vary. I ran across a brand several years back that etched plastic. It may have had toluene in it, or some other solvent. The manufacturers can use just about anything and don't disclose the formula because they consider it "proprietary."

 

[davidc11291]

That's scary. What are some brands that have worked good for you? Something easily found at Home Depot.

 

[GP49]

I've got three gallons of Klean-Strip "S-L-X Denatured Alcohol" in the garage right now. It seemed to be OK when I tried it, so I bought a couple more cans.

It could have been some variation in the plastic that made it vulnerable, too; but the Klean-Strip stuff didn't fog it.

 

[ray6]

Good summary, Ray.

But note that the denaturants used in denatured alcohol can vary. I ran across a brand several years back that etched plastic. It may have had toluene in it, or some other solvent. The manufacturers can use just about anything and don't disclose the formula because they consider it "proprietary."

We buy 55 gallons at a time from a wholesaler, but many of our dealers use SLX from Home Depot and haven't had problems, but who knows what they might use to denature in the future. Even though, the time the alcohol is on bare polycarbonate is probably safe enough.
ray6

 

[ray6]

Good summary, Ray.

But note that the denaturants used in denatured alcohol can vary. I ran across a brand several years back that etched plastic. It may have had toluene in it, or some other solvent. The manufacturers can use just about anything and don't disclose the formula because they consider it "proprietary."

Good point. They might also use MEK or acetone.
ray6

 

[ray6]

Ray, I used the SG/Bleache white mix on my first spar retoration on a 2002 Toyota Sequoia. It seemed to work great..powerful stuff...scrubbed with a 3m potscrubber (the coarse material found on the back of a sponge)...taped garbage bags below and on sides of headlight to protect paint...then cleaned with IPA, then prepped with min sp and then applied the spar mix.

I'd recommend.

David

Thanks for the heads up David. I'll check it out (competition?). Another way of masking instead of garbage bags is kitchen wrap. You can get it up to 24" wide by 2000 feet and it is dirt cheap. Spray a little water on the surface and it will stick like a magnet.
ray6

 

[Always Learning]

I've noticed on the last couple restores I've done that they look great in the daylight with the lights off, but if the lights are turned on I can see some fogginess. Its more noticeable at night.

Is this something I'm doing wrong?

Method:
girot with a foam interface pad,
400, 600, 800 dry
1500 first dry then damp
3000 damp (tried both just using girot only and girot followed up by 3000 on cordless drill)
Cleaned with Odorless Mineral Spirits
Cleaned again with proponal

Waited a moment to be sure fully dry
Applied Spar mixture approx 50/50

Thanks