Headlight Restoration-new UV sealant idea

lol.. Opti-coat is resistant to acids, Spar is not. I've actually heard that some APC's will kill spar but I haven't tried it.

An yes, you alluded that your spar is clear by saying that the coated/uncoated sides look exactly the same and suggested that my spar was contaminated because of the brownish color. Every spar i've seen in a can was brown, when mixed with MS is caramel color. When applied to clear headlights it has a slight tinted look. In comparison to OC or OLens, it has a cloudy appearance

8558194247_794eb16694_b.jpg


Look at the reflection of the tree and tell me spar looks clear compared to OC. Spar on left/ OC on right
 
Part-timer said:
I have a Griot's 6" orbital (I didn't like their 3") and tried polishing the crap out of a set of Taurus SUV lights last weekend



Doing so many headlights, you should use a rotary..much faster.
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Rotary makes all the difference in the world on headlights and glass.
 
Rsurfer said:
Part-timer said:
I have a Griot's 6" orbital (I didn't like their 3") and tried polishing the crap out of a set of Taurus SUV lights last weekend



Doing so many headlights, you should use a rotary..much faster.
Click to expand...

I've tried Griot's 3" and 6" machines and various angle electric drills in the past..........I've used 400, 500, 320 and 280 3" discs and what works better for me is by hand. I've used the discs dry and wet........used many brands and they all just plug up very quickly and have to keep stopping to clean them...........and its very hard to use a rotary on many lenses because of their shape......not to mention the greater chance of accidentally hitting a painted surface around the taped up lens........wet sanding by hand just seems easier overall........lots of rotaries end up leaving swirl marks too.........................anyway, thats just my experiences......I've posted many pics of my work and am very happy with the results I achieve using my method. I had high hopes for the Opti-lens but it doesn't seem feasable for my application. I'm sure it works great for others, just not my thing.
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Part-timer said:
The only real update I have is that now I am mixing at around 70/30. In my experiences....the higher the concentration of spar.....the longer it seems to last. That being said, I am still plugging away at my two used car lots here in Daytona Beach. I still wet sand everything by hand using different combinations of grits, depending on the degree of deterioration of the lens. Preferably 800, 1500, 3000(or compound) then spar. I have had to dip as low as 220 before though...lol. Most of the restorations I get look brand new except the top 1/5th of the lens....but my dealers want them to look perfect....so they have me do them. It's great! Their whole lots look fantastic. I never understood why the other lots would put one great car next to one with trashed lenses....but they do. To me, it sends the message to any potential buyers that none of their cars are well taken care of....even if just one looks bad...and $40 seems a small price to pay for the reputation of the whole lot. Its been pretty busy right now. They like to load up on vehicles before the tax season rush.
Anyway, thats about it for now.....best of luck to you with your new business. ALWAYS seek out and learn.
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That is so cool that your car lots want their whole lots looking new and perfect! That's the way they ALL should be but last week I figured I'd visit several local used car lots near me to offer my skills and services to them and they wouldn't give me the time of day. I was offering to restore their headlights with clearcoat protection for $40 each car and they said no.

What kills me is that I chose the lots I did because 75% of the cars on their lots had bad looking headlights that needed restoration and would improve their reputation and image while helping sell cars and increasing sale prices...yet they told me they don't need me because THEY restore their own headlights. WHAT!?! How can they be restoring their headlights themselves when 75% of their car headlights look horrible? So I invariably asked them why I see so many old looking foggy headlights on their lots if they're doing them. A few told me that they haven't gotten to all of them yet and do them when they can. And a few told me that they do them when a customer wants to buy the particular car...meaning they wait until AFTER the customer chooses that car to buy which makes no sense because you would think it should be done BEFORE to help the car get sold, and for a higher price! Some of them told me that they only restore the headlights if a buyer specifically asks them to when buying it. Hilarious.

Has anyone on here experienced these same excuses by used car lots? I understand they don't have much money but it's confusing to me because they could make that money back, and then some, by being able to raise the price of the car after it looks so much newer and well kept. To me it's a great investment because they will make a bigger profit with each car while making their entire lot look newer. Maybe they just don't have any upfront capital for the investment, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
 
I'll try this method on my truck.
Post pics when done.
Thanks for the tip.:dblthumb2:
 
Part-timer said:
Rsurfer said:
I've tried Griot's 3" and 6" machines and various angle electric drills in the past..........I've used 400, 500, 320 and 280 3" discs and what works better for me is by hand. I've used the discs dry and wet........used many brands and they all just plug up very quickly and have to keep stopping to clean them...........and its very hard to use a rotary on many lenses because of their shape......not to mention the greater chance of accidentally hitting a painted surface around the taped up lens........wet sanding by hand just seems easier overall........lots of rotaries end up leaving swirl marks too.........................anyway, thats just my experiences......I've posted many pics of my work and am very happy with the results I achieve using my method. I had high hopes for the Opti-lens but it doesn't seem feasable for my application. I'm sure it works great for others, just not my thing.
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I don't mean sanding by rotary. Polishing with a rotary is so much faster than using a DA.
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taymon said:
That is so cool that your car lots want their whole lots looking new and perfect! That's the way they ALL should be but last week I figured I'd visit several local used car lots near me to offer my skills and services to them and they wouldn't give me the time of day. I was offering to restore their headlights with clearcoat protection for $40 each car and they said no.

What kills me is that I chose the lots I did because 75% of the cars on their lots had bad looking headlights that needed restoration and would improve their reputation and image while helping sell cars and increasing sale prices...yet they told me they don't need me because THEY restore their own headlights. WHAT!?! How can they be restoring their headlights themselves when 75% of their car headlights look horrible? So I invariably asked them why I see so many old looking foggy headlights on their lots if they're doing them. A few told me that they haven't gotten to all of them yet and do them when they can. And a few told me that they do them when a customer wants to buy the particular car...meaning they wait until AFTER the customer chooses that car to buy which makes no sense because you would think it should be done BEFORE to help the car get sold, and for a higher price! Some of them told me that they only restore the headlights if a buyer specifically asks them to when buying it. Hilarious.

Has anyone on here experienced these same excuses by used car lots? I understand they don't have much money but it's confusing to me because they could make that money back, and then some, by being able to raise the price of the car after it looks so much newer and well kept. To me it's a great investment because they will make a bigger profit with each car while making their entire lot look newer. Maybe they just don't have any upfront capital for the investment, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
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I have been trying to get this one dealer near me that has at a minimum of 20,000 cars a day go by his business. SERIOUS I have went to him 3 times questioned him each time about his cars and the looks of his lot. Some cars on his lot has cob webs going from the ground to the bumper. he says to me business isn't good DUH. I finally got him to try me for free on a set that was the worst ever. They came out great. he liked them and said if I give you the whole lot to do would I do them for 15.00 a car. I walked and told him no. These people down here that have most car lots are buy here pay here and their mind set is. Lets jsut say you could hit them with a cinder block and they still wouldn't understand what hit them. I have been trying a spray that is working great for me, one problem is you have to tape off the headlights cause of over spray. It is by upol called Clear 1. You will have a learning curve but it works great. if the lights are real bad you can use 600 and 800 and spray.
 
taymon said:
That is so cool that your car lots want their whole lots looking new and perfect! That's the way they ALL should be but last week I figured I'd visit several local used car lots near me to offer my skills and services to them and they wouldn't give me the time of day. I was offering to restore their headlights with clearcoat protection for $40 each car and they said no.

What kills me is that I chose the lots I did because 75% of the cars on their lots had bad looking headlights that needed restoration and would improve their reputation and image while helping sell cars and increasing sale prices...yet they told me they don't need me because THEY restore their own headlights. WHAT!?! How can they be restoring their headlights themselves when 75% of their car headlights look horrible? So I invariably asked them why I see so many old looking foggy headlights on their lots if they're doing them. A few told me that they haven't gotten to all of them yet and do them when they can. And a few told me that they do them when a customer wants to buy the particular car...meaning they wait until AFTER the customer chooses that car to buy which makes no sense because you would think it should be done BEFORE to help the car get sold, and for a higher price! Some of them told me that they only restore the headlights if a buyer specifically asks them to when buying it. Hilarious.

Has anyone on here experienced these same excuses by used car lots? I understand they don't have much money but it's confusing to me because they could make that money back, and then some, by being able to raise the price of the car after it looks so much newer and well kept. To me it's a great investment because they will make a bigger profit with each car while making their entire lot look newer. Maybe they just don't have any upfront capital for the investment, it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
Click to expand...

I have the same thing here. What I've found is that you will never get them to change their minds about doing the lights. Your best bet is to go to other lots (who may be their competition) and try to earn their business. Its sad but true that some of those lots just don't even want to spend $40 for a potential sale and they never will. I also find that most of the BHPH lots all know each other. If you get lucky enough to get one to work with you.....the word could spread. Keep trying.....maybe the lots you least expect would want your services....will!!
 
jrs1418 said:
lol.. Opti-coat is resistant to acids, Spar is not. I've actually heard that some APC's will kill spar but I haven't tried it.

An yes, you alluded that your spar is clear by saying that the coated/uncoated sides look exactly the same and suggested that my spar was contaminated because of the brownish color. Every spar i've seen in a can was brown, when mixed with MS is caramel color. When applied to clear headlights it has a slight tinted look. In comparison to OC or OLens, it has a cloudy appearance

8558194247_794eb16694_b.jpg


Look at the reflection of the tree and tell me spar looks clear compared to OC. Spar on left/ OC on right
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to be argumentative, so I'll just leave it at this. The picture you provided is exactly what I'm talking about. I agree with you that the reflection of the tree looks more crisp on the right (opti) than the left (spar), but I see no discernible color difference between the two as they appear "on the headlight". As to your other claims regarding resistance to acid, I am skeptical as to how either hold up until I see some evidence.
 
Barkeater, I like arguing because it helps me learn. =)

The color difference is one of the reasons why that tree looks hazy.

First, the spar is thicker than OC or Olense. Hence the reason it can fill sanding marks where OC/Olens cannot. OC or Olens disappear shortly after application, they REACT with the substrate instead of just covering it up like the spar does. This extra depth of spar creates a layer that distorts the light being transmitted.

Second, The color. Just like if you are drinking fruit punch, if you have a little bit left in your cup then fill with water, your new water will have a slight hint of reddish color to it. If you spill that mixture next to pure water you probably wont notice the difference, but that doesn't mean its not there. And to those of us who do this for a living, we notice it and it affects the clarity of the lens without doubt.

Now if Spar was optically clear, like CLEAR COAT, I would agree that there is probably a negligble difference between the 2. But it is not clear. You cannot see the bottom of the can from the top by any means. But with clear coat you can, and i bet if you had a can of OC you could as well. The whole purpose of restoring headlights is to restore clarity, so why not use something thats CLEAR? Not just something that appears clear when thinned and spread out.. something that is actually clear!

If you want to see evidence of OC being acid resistant, check out my other thread. I was skeptical too as you can read in this thread, but what happened 1-2 weeks after these pictures has me sold.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/66778-opti-coat-bird-poo-fail.html
 
Trying cleaning Spar with Optimum Power Clean..it will run.
 
Hey guys, I went ahead and used the 3m polishing kit on my headlights. They came out looking almost crystal clear in the daylight, however at night when I turn on the lights when you look closely at the headlamps you can see the abrasion marks from the sandpaper discs. Is this normal? As in even with as good as a technique and sanding you do, will you always be able to tell they have been restored when shining light directly? Thanks for your help guys!
 
jrs1418 said:
Barkeater, I like arguing because it helps me learn. =)

The color difference is one of the reasons why that tree looks hazy.

First, the spar is thicker than OC or Olense. Hence the reason it can fill sanding marks where OC/Olens cannot. OC or Olens disappear shortly after application, they REACT with the substrate instead of just covering it up like the spar does. This extra depth of spar creates a layer that distorts the light being transmitted.

The problem with OC or OLens is that you need to be an auto-body technician to be able to sand it to the point of showing no sanding marks. I tried OLens(for $60) one time and sanded for almost 2 hours and still wasn't able to make it look good. I guess if I charged $100 a set and became an expert at sanding odd shaped lenses for 2 hours it would be great for me too.
I'm not sure if thicker Spar would cause as much or more distortion than several coats of clearcoat, but I'm guessing if you put enough coats of anything on .....there will be some distortion.


Second, The color. Just like if you are drinking fruit punch, if you have a little bit left in your cup then fill with water, your new water will have a slight hint of reddish color to it. If you spill that mixture next to pure water you probably wont notice the difference, but that doesn't mean its not there. And to those of us who do this for a living, we notice it and it affects the clarity of the lens without doubt.

Now if Spar was optically clear, like CLEAR COAT, I would agree that there is probably a negligble difference between the 2. But it is not clear. You cannot see the bottom of the can from the top by any means. But with clear coat you can, and i bet if you had a can of OC you could as well. The whole purpose of restoring headlights is to restore clarity, so why not use something thats CLEAR? Not just something that appears clear when thinned and spread out.. something that is actually clear!

As for the color.....Everything I've read and studied said that UV from the sun is the main cause for the lens coating to deteriorate in the first place. The color in the Spar IS the UV protectant. I'm not sure if the UV protection that is added to clearcoat has any color to it, but I would guess that it does.....and if you just use several coats of clear, then compare that to several coats of spar.

I'm not saying that spar is the best thing to use on headlights for long-term results, I'm just saying......each person has to try different things and use what works best for your application.

If you want to see evidence of OC being acid resistant, check out my other thread. I was skeptical too as you can read in this thread, but what happened 1-2 weeks after these pictures has me sold.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/auto-detailing-101/66778-opti-coat-bird-poo-fail.html
Click to expand...
.
 
Is spar still the go to method for most doing dealer cars? I've read a little about other options including the DP system and Opti-Lens as well.

Does the DP system generally speed things up enough to warrant any additional costs? Does it leave a good enough surface for Opti-Lens as a next step? Any ideas on the cost per car of these alternatives, not including labor?

I've also seen people using the purple foamed wool with other things than DP. Would it work well enough with M105 / M205 combo or something like 3M super duty, a polish then IPA and Opti-Lens (or an alternate - please suggest something more cost effective if possible)

I'd like to get away from the wavy lines I could get at the worst possible time.

Thanks
 
Here in the Southeast income for families around here is so low it is hard to get 20.00 out of their pocket. Even if you tell them about the safety hazard of their cloudy oxidized headlights. BUT they will go into wally world and buy a video. The way to do lights right IMHO is to Clear Coat them like the factory. A dealer is different. Still the same money problem though. They don't want to split with 20.00. But when you do get a dealer that sees the need for their high end cars they want to have them looking factory. No one can do that kind of job for even 35.00. Opti lens. is probably the way to go but I'm really tired of trying things and not getting the results that really satisfy the individual and making a profit. I have one guy here Clear Coating lights and he charges 20.00. He also does bumper repairs. How he can justify 20.00 for lights is beyond me.
 
Ok guys, theres a lot of pages here so i couldnt find it right away, but whats the easiest way to remove an existing layer of spar urethane?
 
The easiest way I have found to remove the spar urethane is Simoniz Instant Headlight Restorer. I tried it a long time ago and it didn't work worth a damn on actual cloudy, yellowed headlights. But I tried it on spar urethane that I wanted to remove. Sprayed it on liberally, let it soak for a minute or so. The spar turned brown and softened up enough so a paper towel wet with the stuff took most of it off. I used the edge of a piece of cardboard where necessary to scrape off the stubborn areas. This was on a headlight which had been recoated, with two or three layers of spar.

The bad part about all this? The Simoniz Instant Headlight Restorer is apparently discontinued. I haven't seen it at auto parts stores lately. My bottle came from Big Lots (almost everything they carry is short-dated, in the case of food, or discontinued) for $4 and they don't have it any more, either. I've used up half of it; sure would like to find something else that will do the job, because once the old spar is removed, polishing up the lights so they are ready for a new coat is SO easy!

In an earlier post, "Rsurfer" said, "Trying cleaning Spar with Optimum Power Clean..it will run." Maybe that will work, too. And it is still available.
 
kewldetail said:
Ok guys, theres a lot of pages here so i couldnt find it right away, but whats the easiest way to remove an existing layer of spar urethane?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if the spar urethane could just be sanded off? Has anyone done this?
 
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