Heaviest Cut Compound?

FinishingTouchA

FinishingTouchA

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I feel like the Autopia comparison chart could use an update. I'm looking for a new compound for heavy cutting duty and it's hard to discern similar products.

I've been using Menzerna for a while and I love FG400 and SF4000. I also use SHCC300 on a regular basis (I see some pretty hammered vehicles) and have been looking to try something similar.

What I find interesting is that FG400 and SHCC300 are both a 10 on the chart while I've found the difference in cut is significant. Often I find myself leaving FG400 on the shelf because I would need to compound each section twice to remove all the defects. With SHCC300 and a wool pad nearly every defect comes out with ease.
Also I'm confused as to why M101, M100, and M95 are all in the same column as well. I haven't used them all but from what I've read they offer significant differences in cut as well.

Any suggestions for products similar to SHCC300 (long working time, super heavy cut, low dusting, finishes well enough to 2-step)?
Because I recently became an OC Pro installer I've been looking into the Hyper line but the chart says its only an 8 compared to FG400 at a 10. Am I going to have to stick with SHCC300 for heavy cutting duties or is there something else I should try?

I realize I asked the same question 3 times but whatever haha.
Thanks in advance!
 
Listen SHC300 is why your floors are slippery I'm on to you guy.

(Lmao sorry to funny couldn't pass it up)
 
AGOatemywallet said:
3000 grit foam finishing discs are your next step
Click to expand...

I've seen this in some pictures and videos but haven't actually considered wet sanding the really beat up vehicles. Maybe I'll have to make a thread about that. I'll just threadjack my own thread haha.

Who here does wetsanding regularly as part of the correction process?
Does this take off more or less paint than just compounding?
Does it save time?
Do you get better results because of the reduced orange peel?
 
I'd be very cautions about doing or offering wet sanding for customers with factory paint.

I taught the first public class at Mobile Tech Expo on this topic when Meguiar's introduced their Unigrit Sanding/Finishing Discs back in 2010 and gave this same caution back then.

Factory clearcoats are thin. Here's the deal. Sure you can sand them and buff them and if you're good and do everything right there won't be a whoops!.

It's down the road that can be the problem as now the car will be exposed to the sun, wear-n-tear, wet weather, future detailing and now the factory thin paint is now even thinner.

I know you already know this stuff so this is mostly for all the people that will read this thread into the future.

Be careful.

It's too bad car manufacturers don't spray more clear paint on their cars in the first place.

Now if you're working on a custom paint job that's a whole other story.


:)
 
What mike said, however sometimes there's a must if I'm working on a rock hard clear and getting no results and I'm going to have to do multiple passes.

I am going to wetsand with 3k.

Also I consider it safer , as running with a heavy cut pad and compound can introduce a lot of heat, sometimes I'm more comfortable with sanding then actually going to town with just compound.

3k sand marks are easier to get out then regular scratches and swirls.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/showthread.php?t=98051

There is a thread I wetsanded a oxidized truck it would have taken me forever to buff that junk away.

Also it depends on how much your getting paid, what kind of car it is, and how good you told the client its going to come out.

I wouldn't wetsand a 2013-16 car as its to new unless it is hammered and needs it.

Many variables come into play and just use common sense.

Another thing I wouldn't wet send a whole car for 3-600$ it still takes time to sand.

So make sure your getting paid properly
 
I found that using Lake Country's Thin Foamed
Wool Pads with heavy-cut compounds...even with
some of the ones you mentioned in your OP...
gave excellent paint correction results.

OTOH:
3M has a few heavy-cut compounds
that just might pique your interest.

Here are a couple of them:
•Perfect-It 3000 Extra Cut Compound
•Super Duty Rubbing Compound


Bob
 
I personally have the 3m Perfect It Extra cut in my arsenal. To me it has a very short work time before it begins to dust, however on a wool pad, it works extremely fast. I really only use it whenever I wetsand. I just recently switched over to 101 from 105 and I couldn't be happier. Has a very long work time and very very little dusting. Other than that I use Wolfgang uber compound or Blackfire src.
 
FinishingTouchA said:
Because I recently became an OC Pro installer I've been looking into the Hyper line but the chart says its only an 8 compared to FG400 at a 10. Am I going to have to stick with SHCC300 for heavy cutting duties or is there something else I should try?
Click to expand...

That chart is out of date on the Optimum polishes--the new Hyper (spray) Compound (white) is supposed to be a 10, the old Hyper Compound (orange) has been renamed Intensive Polish and is still an 8, and Hyper Polish is now a 6. Not sure why Ray didn't update the chart, he said he would in this thread: Optimum Rejiggers Its Spray Polish Line Again?

Perhaps it's because they don't have the new formulas in stock here yet...the Hypers seem to move very slowly in the AG/ACC store.

Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'd be very cautions about doing or offering wet sanding for customers with factory paint.

Be careful.
Click to expand...

Since apparently some people aren't going to listen to you anyway, Mike--what do you think about the 5000 grit Trizact discs as an option to compounding? Same advice--don't do it?
 
FUNX650 said:
I found that using Lake Country's Thin Foamed
Wool Pads with heavy-cut compounds...even with
some of the ones you mentioned in your OP...
gave excellent paint correction results.


Bob
Click to expand...

Interested to see the results with this combo.

Please post some 50/50's or Before & Afters.
 
Meguiar's M100 + Lake Country Thin Purple Foamed Wool pads on a large stroke DA like a Rupes 21 or 15 (I like them best on the 15) are AMAZING for those ultra-hammered cars with rock-hard OEM clear. Once you dial in a technique you can get this combo to finish out very well. You could almost one-step this on a silver vehicle (if absolute perfection is not the goal). And the DA haze is easily removed with a quick finishing polish session.
 
Nicholas@Autowerx said:
Meguiar's M100 + Lake Country Thin Purple Foamed Wool pads on a large stroke DA like a Rupes 21 or 15 (I like them best on the 15) are AMAZING for those ultra-hammered cars with rock-hard OEM clear. Once you dial in a technique you can get this combo to finish out very well. You could almost one-step this on a silver vehicle (if absolute perfection is not the goal). And the DA haze is easily removed with a quick finishing polish session.
Click to expand...

M100 on Meguair's microfiber cutting pads has some serious correction as well.
 
I am a long time Menzerna user also. I think you'll be hard pressed to find more cut that SHC300 that still finishes out well. I have been very impressed with the Scholl S3 Gold XXL. They also have the S0 Extreme Cut Matting Compound which scares me. They knick named it 'Liquid Sandpaper'
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
I'd be very cautions about doing or offering wet sanding for customers with factory paint.

I taught the first public class at Mobile Tech Expo on this topic when Meguiar's introduced their Unigrit Sanding/Finishing Discs back in 2010 and gave this same caution back then.

Factory clearcoats are thin. Here's the deal. Sure you can sand them and buff them and if you're good and do everything right there won't be a whoops!.

It's down the road that can be the problem as now the car will be exposed to the sun, wear-n-tear, wet weather, future detailing and now the factory thin paint is now even thinner.

I know you already know this stuff so this is mostly for all the people that will read this thread into the future.

Be careful.

It's too bad car manufacturers don't spray more clear paint on their cars in the first place.

Now if you're working on a custom paint job that's a whole other story.


:)
Click to expand...

It depends on manufacturers. I have seen some pretty thick factory clearcoat on vehicles from Jeep and other manufacturers.

I would advise to apply the same rule as for compounding, take a paint thickness reading and decide if it should be done or not.

I don't know how much paint a 3000 grit sanding would take away but it's probably in the 40 micron range after compounding and polishing... So on factory paints that have over 240 micron thickness I would not be worried about it.

On the other hand, japaneese and corean cars often have thickness of 100 microns or less, so these cars should not even be compounded.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Since apparently some people aren't going to listen to you anyway, Mike--what do you think about the 5000 grit Trizact discs as an option to compounding?

Same advice--don't do it?
Click to expand...


That's a judgment call for each person to make but I do believe that if done correctly, machine sanding with #3000, #4000 and #5000 are safe alternatives to doing a heavy compounding step.

First - You're in essence doing the same thing, that is removing paint via compounding or sanding the benefit to sanding is you keep surface temperatures low. With heavy compounding, especially if you're using a rotary buffer, you're going to heat up the paint and that's never a good thing for the paint.


Second - When done correctly doing the correction step using 2 steps instead of one step takes about the same time and is easier on you.


I would highly recommend using some 3M blue vinyl tape to protect any raised body lines or edges so you don't sand over them. Not only will the blue vinyl tape protect these sections of paint they also create a VISUAL reminder of where these areas are at so you sand up to them and don't sand over them.

I show this here,


Damp-Sanding Tools, Tips and Techniques by Mike Phillips

The above link goes to a VERY in-depth article on how to machine wet sand or damp sand.

Here's the picture I'm referring to....

Mike Phillips said:
If you look carefully you can see some thin tape lines running down the center of the hood and the middle of each half-sections of the hood, these are raised body lines as a part of the styling of the hood. They are not very high off the surface and when sanding, the entire area will become white with water slurry. By taping them off I could see where they were at and if I accidentally run the sander too close to them, no worries...

Thin tape on top of raised body lines on the hood
DampSanding39.jpg
Click to expand...



By the way.... this El Camino had a "custom paint job" so there was more paint to work with than a "factory paint job".



To your question Mike, YES - machine sanding with the fine grit discs from Meguiar's, 3M and Mirka is a safe option to heavy compounding if done correctly.


:)


:)
 
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