Help!! Audi A5 Sline Brilliant Black: Swirl Removal

Here's the first red flag.... it's an Audi. Audi has paint all over the spectrum of hard and soft and more specifically, polishable and un-polishable.

In context I was talking about soft paints. I'm not sure where the paint is on "this" Audi A5. Generally speaking Audi's are known for having very hard paints.


Don't know if this is the same type of paint that was on other Audi Q5 I worked on recently but I absolutely hated the paint on the Audi Q5 and would not only not ever offer to detail one, as in remove the swirls out of the paint on one of these cars I would recommend to people that LIKE to do their own car detailing to avoid this car or be ready for a lifetime of misery. Absolutely horrible paint.

Sooo coincidentally I'm doing an '13 A4 Quattro (QUUAAATTTRROOO!) this weekend in "Brilliant Black" that I've had scheduled out a month ago. When you say you "absolutely hated" the paint, does this go along the same lines as the OP? I worry I'm always "thread jacking" (due to the various directions these in-depth convo's tend to go), but what am I getting myself into speficially to make the king of detailing, aka Mike Phillips, never want to detail a specific car ever again?!
 
Here's my take... from the last "finished" picture, it looks like light haze or marring from the pads, abrasives and action of the tool.







Here's the first red flag.... it's an Audi. Audi has paint all over the spectrum of hard and soft and more specifically, polishable and un-polishable.




Assuming, and I hate assuming, but assuming you're finishing out using the least aggressive Menzerna polish in your arsenal, which the accurate name is,

SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)



and you're still getting these kind of results...




Then I'd say the primary problem isn't you or the polish but the paint.

Here's what I would try, I would get my hands on a non-forced dual action polisher and re-try polishing using a soft foam pad like the Lake Country 5.5" black flat pad with the same polish.

Start at highest speed setting, especially if it's the Porter Cable unit and after about 4 section passes, reduce speed just a little and reduce downward pressure.

At least that's what I would "test".


I've never seen a paint system that Menzerna polishes could not finish out perfect on. Sometimes, some paint systems just don't like to be finished out using a forced rotation dual action polisher. I talk about that in this thread, see posts #31 and #32

Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf


In context I was talking about soft paints. I'm not sure where the paint is on "this" Audi A5. Generally speaking Audi's are known for having very hard paints.

But I've documented that they can also have very soft paints, as in soft like butter.

Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness


So give it a try... if you don't have a PC or a knock-off of the PC in your tool arsenal then get one. They're great for machine wetsanding, machine applying waxes and sometimes you just need a tool with a different operating action for some paint systems.

You can't "test" if you don't have a variety of tools to test with.





Vindicated.

I always tell people paint systems are different and this means they react differently.

What works on one paint system doesn't automatically mean the same, pads, tools and products are going to work on different paint system.

For those that might not understand, when I say or type "different paint systems" that's like saying different "cars". Cars, trucks and suvs have "paint systems" on them and they are all different.

Make sense? :dunno:




Don't know if this is the same type of paint that was on other Audi Q5 I worked on recently but I absolutely hated the paint on the Audi Q5 and would not only not ever offer to detail one, as in remove the swirls out of the paint on one of these cars I would recommend to people that LIKE to do their own car detailing to avoid this car or be ready for a lifetime of misery. Absolutely horrible paint.


2014_Black_Audi_Q5_001.jpg




p.s.

Since you included a link to your website I checked it out and noticed you used the definition I wrote for the term Section Pass on your Services page.

In my life I often find it hard to teach someone how to detail a car using a keyboard when it would be so much easier to show them in person. Because years ago, before the Porter Cable dual action polisher and all the knock-offs were so popular I had to find a way to wordsmith a way to describe how to move the polisher over paint to remove swirls and because the crosshatch pattern is a pattern that easy easy to use, easy to teach and effective at UMR, I wrote the definition of a single pass so I could then use this to write and explain a section pass.


I think it's this article where I either first used the terms or at least really dialed them in and also introduced the acronym UMR.

Step-by-Step How-To use the Porter Cable 7424XP


Post #8




Not that it matters but

"Everything comes from somewhere"


The above article was the first article I wrote after coming to Autogeek in 2009 from Meguiar's. I buffed out the 2008 Lexus IS 250 for this article which was so foreign to me as I don't normally buff out daily drivers like this car. It hat horrible paint too by the way.


Keep us updated as to your progress please. What you find out works on this car/paint system will help others into the future.
:)
Very informative info, Mike.
 
When you say you "absolutely hated" the paint, does this go along the same lines as the OP?

Kind of...


I worry I'm always "thread jacking" (due to the various directions these in-depth convo's tend to go), but what am I getting myself into superficially to make the king of detailing, aka Mike Phillips, never want to detail a specific car ever again?!


I'm just a blue collar working class dog like everyone else...


The paint on the Audi Q5 was hard but scratched incredibly easy. The two worst characteristics you don't want in any paint system.

I think I finished the paint out using either the Rupes system or a Flex 3401 but off hand I can't remember.

You really need to have good abrasive technology to tackle some of the paints on the market today.

Keep in mind, paint is continually changing, What was sprayed last year, last month or last week might be different today. So you can't judge this 2013 Quattro on my experience on a 2014 Q5

The best thing to do is a Test Spot and work your system, that is pad, products and tools all the way through to the last machine polishing step and then chemically strip and inspect.

The results you see at this point is what you're going to see all over the entire car so make sure you're getting the results you hope for and dream about in your test spot before buffing out the entire car.

At this point, it would probably be better to start your own dedicated thread for more questions and title it with the year, make and model.

If you run into problems, shoot me a PM so I don't miss your thread. Going to be real busy this year.




How To Do a Test Spot
(and why it's so important)



:)
 
Thank you Mike, and thank you OP for lettin me jump in on this.
 
Here's my take... from the last "finished" picture, it looks like light haze or marring from the pads, abrasives and action of the tool.







Here's the first red flag.... it's an Audi. Audi has paint all over the spectrum of hard and soft and more specifically, polishable and un-polishable.




Assuming, and I hate assuming, but assuming you're finishing out using the least aggressive Menzerna polish in your arsenal, which the accurate name is,

SF 4000 – Super Finish Polish (PO106FA)



and you're still getting these kind of results...




Then I'd say the primary problem isn't you or the polish but the paint.

Here's what I would try, I would get my hands on a non-forced dual action polisher and re-try polishing using a soft foam pad like the Lake Country 5.5" black flat pad with the same polish.

Start at highest speed setting, especially if it's the Porter Cable unit and after about 4 section passes, reduce speed just a little and reduce downward pressure.

At least that's what I would "test".


I've never seen a paint system that Menzerna polishes could not finish out perfect on. Sometimes, some paint systems just don't like to be finished out using a forced rotation dual action polisher. I talk about that in this thread, see posts #31 and #32

Christmas Detail - Ferrari P4 - Move over Rudolf


In context I was talking about soft paints. I'm not sure where the paint is on "this" Audi A5. Generally speaking Audi's are known for having very hard paints.

But I've documented that they can also have very soft paints, as in soft like butter.

Audi Soft Paint - Making Generalizations about Hardness and Softness


So give it a try... if you don't have a PC or a knock-off of the PC in your tool arsenal then get one. They're great for machine wetsanding, machine applying waxes and sometimes you just need a tool with a different operating action for some paint systems.

You can't "test" if you don't have a variety of tools to test with.





Vindicated.

I always tell people paint systems are different and this means they react differently.

What works on one paint system doesn't automatically mean the same, pads, tools and products are going to work on different paint system.

For those that might not understand, when I say or type "different paint systems" that's like saying different "cars". Cars, trucks and suvs have "paint systems" on them and they are all different.

Make sense? :dunno:




Don't know if this is the same type of paint that was on other Audi Q5 I worked on recently but I absolutely hated the paint on the Audi Q5 and would not only not ever offer to detail one, as in remove the swirls out of the paint on one of these cars I would recommend to people that LIKE to do their own car detailing to avoid this car or be ready for a lifetime of misery. Absolutely horrible paint.


2014_Black_Audi_Q5_001.jpg




p.s.

Since you included a link to your website I checked it out and noticed you used the definition I wrote for the term Section Pass on your Services page.

In my life I often find it hard to teach someone how to detail a car using a keyboard when it would be so much easier to show them in person. Because years ago, before the Porter Cable dual action polisher and all the knock-offs were so popular I had to find a way to wordsmith a way to describe how to move the polisher over paint to remove swirls and because the crosshatch pattern is a pattern that easy easy to use, easy to teach and effective at UMR, I wrote the definition of a single pass so I could then use this to write and explain a section pass.


I think it's this article where I either first used the terms or at least really dialed them in and also introduced the acronym UMR.

Step-by-Step How-To use the Porter Cable 7424XP


Post #8




Not that it matters but

"Everything comes from somewhere"


The above article was the first article I wrote after coming to Autogeek in 2009 from Meguiar's. I buffed out the 2008 Lexus IS 250 for this article which was so foreign to me as I don't normally buff out daily drivers like this car. It hat horrible paint too by the way.


Keep us updated as to your progress please. What you find out works on this car/paint system will help others into the future.
:)


thank you for all the info pointers and tips ill for sure keep you guys updated :dblthumb2:
 
What pads do you have for the Griot's 3" DA?


Me?


I have access to everything in the warehouse. I usually use the 3.5" pads like I talk about in this thread because they are THIN and when it comes to any dual action polisher....


Thin is in....


How to detail a 2014 Corvette Stingray


2014_Stingray_028.jpg


2014_Stingray_029.jpg




Microfiber pads work well too on the Griot's 3" mini polisher as they are very thin but foam to finish for the win.


:)
 
Update!!!
So all I did was change my compound went with the FG400 and it pretty much solved my problems..

50/50 After it was hit with the FG400







 
Thank you for the update,

I would really appreciate if you could elaborate a bit on what you think was the issue in your process.

Was it that the sanding marks were not removed during your compounding stage ? And FG400 was more effective that the previous compound ?

Or that your finishing step was not dialed in correctly and you could not finish swirl free.

To me it seems that you compounded again with FG400 and then refinish with SF 4000 ?

I would appreciate your response cause as soon as spring kicks in and the (-41 C ) goes away I will be polishing and opti coating my Audi Q7.

Theo
 
I can't imagine being THAT much difference going from Uber compound to FG400. Maybe so...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thank you for the update,

I would really appreciate if you could elaborate a bit on what you think was the issue in your process.

Was it that the sanding marks were not removed during your compounding stage ? And FG400 was more effective that the previous compound ?

Or that your finishing step was not dialed in correctly and you could not finish swirl free.

To me it seems that you compounded again with FG400 and then refinish with SF 4000 ?

I would appreciate your response cause as soon as spring kicks in and the (-41 C ) goes away I will be polishing and opti coating my Audi Q7.

Theo

I can't imagine being THAT much difference going from Uber compound to FG400. Maybe so...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes the FG400 was more effective then Uber Compound.. I used the same process as before just switched to the FG400..
FG400
SI1500 (PO83)
SF4000 (PO106)
 
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