Help! My first detail project, and its a 26ft boat!

[RamAirV1]

That totally makes sense. Based on how I am going to use it, the G9 makes more sense for me. Right now I don't need to do any heavy correction. I still do have my Makita rotary, so there is that should I ever need it. And you already showed me how to use that (on my GTO). I have a new Scat Pack now (Destroyer Grey) and the G9 will be more than enough to handle the few RIDS that it has.

RamAirV1

 

[Dan NZ]

Mike, Aaryn... Thanks again!

My amazing wife has gone through all the pros and cons of the Makita vs Flex and she acutally WANTS me to get the Flex!! Looks like I will be learning the ways of the beast! Thank you both for your input, it has been invaluable helping me navigate the the minefield of options that a novice faces. I only have a one question before I start gathering bits and pieces for my detailing project.

I have found the new Rupes wool pads that you shared with the blue fibers. I have a rotary tool I can borrow, however not for another two weeks due to the COVID lockdown in NZ and restrictions on inter-provincial travel. Mike, I found your article "MEGA pad selection for the FLEX 3401 - From Wool pads to Foam pad and even ABRALON SANDING DISCS" where it looks like you put a wool pad on the Flex. I like the comment that it will "turn and burn anything". Will the Flex spin the blue/white Rupes wool pad effectively enough to cut gel, or should I look for a cheap rotary in the mean time?

Thanks again, and I look forward to sharing some images and feedback on my progress!!

Kind regards
Dan

 

[Aaryn NZ]

Nice one Dan!! Your Wife is awesome!! rops:

Send me a shipping address via PM & I’ll send you up some Menzerna compound to try out. :buffing:

Yes the BEAST will spin a RUPES wool pad or any other wool pad & it will indeed achieve good results, it’ll just be a tad slower than the Rotary/DA double act but hey, if you have time on your side ... all good.

Are you getting the Flex via RA Johnstone? Machine alone or the Malco Kit they have?


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:

 

[Dan NZ]

Wow Aaryn thank you, that is very kind! I will send you a PM

Thanks for info on the flex/wool pad combo... TIME is one thing we all seem to have a little more of at the moment! I have to say there is a little bit of "new project" excitement building over this, or maybe it's just that I get to go shopping for a new power tools?!

In terms of kits, that's a good question. I will probably focus on what I need for the job and not push my luck haha!

Cheers
Dan

 

[Dan NZ]

Made it out of the house with the credit card today, though I would post a picture of the damage...

View attachment 69428

Tools and pads as follows; Flex 3401, 2 Rupes rotary wool pads (will try these on the Flex), 6 Rupes coarse blue pads, 2 Rupes ultrafine pads (to polish the isinglass on the boat), some Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse, and some UV wax (label blanked to respect the forum rules).

I would like to say a HUGE THANK YOU to Aaryn NZ who has gone out of his way to help me locally here in New Zealand. He has even sent me a sample of the product he uses in his detail shop to try, along with making calls to track down a Flex on my behalf. Awesome stuff!

Thank you to Mike Phillips as well for all the product testing and suggestions! This has, without question, cut down on the pain I would have endured trying to figure all this out on my own!

Give me a few days to figure out how all this stuff works and I will be back with an update, and hopefully something others might one day find of use!

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Made it out of the house with the credit card today, though I would post a picture of the damage...


Tools and pads as follows; Flex 3401, 2 Rupes rotary wool pads (will try these on the Flex),

Here's the deal, any traditional wool pad will work on the BEAST - BUT - unlike a rotary polisher that spins in a circle, due to the 8mm oscillation action - you won't be able to get as close to an edge like a rub rail as you could a rotary. So just be aware of this when your sanding.

What I practice and what I teach in my wet sanding classes is,

DON'T sand where you cannot buff


Otherwise- you'll be trying to work your sanding marks out by HAND.


Also - I don't know why, it could just be my fault from PUSHING the BEAST too hard when buffing with wool pads - but when I use these types of pads on the BEAST it seems to generate a LOT of heat at the backing of the pad and this can lead to de-lamination of the adhesive between the velcro on the back of the pad and the pad liner. So don't full mad man when using the FLEX for compounding out sanding marks.

If it were me - I would stick with a rotary buffer to remove sanding marks and use the BEAST to remove holograms and polish to a clear, high gloss. This is a great combo.

6 Rupes coarse blue pads, 2 Rupes ultrafine pads (to polish the isinglass on the boat), some Rupes Zephir Gloss Coarse, and some UV wax (label blanked to respect the forum rules).

Sounds good. And remember - before going full comando on your boat - START WITH A TEST SPOT.

Test the PROCESS you think, hope, dream and pray will work on the boat to one small area all the way through from start to finish and then inspect the results. If you cannot make one small area look good you won't be able to make the entire boat look good.

The good news is - if you can make one small area look GREAT - you can make the entire boat look great. Sometimes you get close and all you need to do is tweak your technique.

I would like to say a HUGE THANK YOU to Aaryn NZ who has gone out of his way to help me locally here in New Zealand. He has even sent me a sample of the product he uses in his detail shop to try, along with making calls to track down a Flex on my behalf. Awesome stuff!

I told you so - he's a great guy and a great resource.

Thank you to Mike Phillips as well for all the product testing and suggestions! This has, without question, cut down on the pain I would have endured trying to figure all this out on my own!

Ah shucks.... I just do what I always do - help the world removes swirls one car at a time and in your case, one boat at a time.

Give me a few days to figure out how all this stuff works and I will be back with an update, and hopefully something others might one day find of use!

I'm already looking forward to you next post.

 

[Dan NZ]

Just a very quick update!

The weather is turning and it may be a week before I can start the polishing of my boat, however I am impatient so I had to power up the flex for a quick go! Cant get a new power tool and not at least turn it on?!

I don't have a rotary yet, so this is the result of the Rupes Zehpir and the Rupes coarse blue pad directly on the oxidized gel, plus some wax.

I guess white/light coloured gel doesn't reflect like the darker gels, however I am very happy the result!

Grady Whites are not white at all, but a slightly cream/tan colour, and the photo doesn't do the restoration of colour justice! It is like night and day in person.

I am sure I will get better results soon as my feel for the tool and pad develops, plus tool control. This was on speed 3 with the tool rested (not pressed hard) against the boat...

I think I can go faster and use more pressure but baby steps first! Also looking forward to another attempt with a rotary and wool pad.

Cheers for now!

View attachment 69444

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Looks good Dan!

Like I tell people, gel-coats DON'T like soft mushy pads for polishing. They like a hard, sharp foam pad and I have not found a pad that works better than the RUPES coarse blue foam pads for the POLISHING step.

This is why I always teach these pads in my boat detailing classes. You can get "show car results" in the finish on a boat.

Also - might go against the average person's thinking - but when polishing gel coat, (after correction), spin those RUPES pads on the highest speed setting and on your last few passes - REDUCE pressure - DON'T maintain pressure.

Polishing anything is an art form.


And getting GREAT results ALWAYS starts with GREAT abrasive technology. So many guys think it's all about THEIR technique. That thinking is EGO-DRIVEN. Sorry to disappoint whole lot of Alpha Male detailers but YOU are NOT touching the surface - the abrasives are.

Abrasive Technology - THE most important factor when it comes to polishing paint



But according to my own poll.... I'm wrong....

POLL - What's the number one most important factor when it comes to polishing paint?





Thanks for sharing!

:dblthumb2:

 

[Dan NZ]

Thanks Mike!

And getting GREAT results ALWAYS starts with GREAT abrasive technology. So many guys think it's all about THEIR technique. That thinking is EGO-DRIVEN. Sorry to disappoint whole lot of Alpha Male detailers but YOU are NOT touching the surface - the abrasives are.

If you ever need proof of this (and I know you don't), then all I can say is look at me. I have almost zero technique having only logged only about 3 hours on the buffer, however the results I have obtained by following the formula have exceeded what I thought possible. With improvement in technique I am sure my results will improve as I put the abrasives to work more efficiently. I have been lucky to get some time in between passing showers of rain, and thought I would post some more progress. I have done about 1/4 of the boat so far, but my progress will slow as I tackle more complex areas of the boat. I am not a shortcut guy, and I will soon start removing and replacing components and opposed to trying to buff around them. I see another 4 full days work ahead and a LOT MORE learning.

I started polishing the hull sides as these already had a wax shine compared to the chalky topsides, and thought this would be a good place to start as I don't have a rotary. In the picture below I have polished from the left side of the frame up to the red line, the right side is in "original" condition. While both sides look reflective from a distance, an up close image reveals the truth!

View attachment 69490

This is the polished area

View attachment 69491

This is the unpolished area which looks shiny from a distance, but dull up close.

View attachment 69492

Taking a photo at a shallow angle is probably cheating, however I have a very narrow work area in places and this is the gap I squeeze through coming from the garage. When I turned back towards the boat after buffing out an area, this is the view I had from the garage and I WAS BLOWN AWAY with the results that the Rupes pad/polish combo had produced! Total time on the Flex at this stage... About 45 minutes!

View attachment 69493

Moving to the topsides I thought I would have a go with 2000 wet and the Flex/Rupes Coarse combo. The Zephir Gloss Coarse says it will remove 1500 grit sanding marks. I don't have the lamps/eye for scratches and defects that many of you here will have, but from what I can see the combination had no issue with the 2000 grit. I will concede that there are a couple of areas that will need a second go, but it would be an understatement to say that I am happy with the results. Left frame is polished, right frame is in original condition.

View attachment 69494View attachment 69495

Now for a question! This was the condition of the pad after about 2 hours of intermittent polishing (with a couple of dabs of new polish added). I polished one more section with it, then put a new pad on. Have I gone past the point where I should have swapped the pad out? (I have 6 pads).

View attachment 69497View attachment 69496

I hear people say that the Rupes Zephir Coarse makes a lot of dust. I didn't notice any dust at first, but once I began to use less compound and more seed (5 on the Flex) I did notice that I created quite a lot of dust. This doesn't bother me, however I wondered if it was a sign that I was starting to use the pad more efficiently? There were a couple of moments where I was finishing a section out and most of the compound had started to 'dust off' leaving more of a shine in the wake of the pad than a trail of wet compound. Is this the sweet spot when finishing a section, or should I be aiming to keep things 'wet' (for lack of a better description)?

Oh, following the advice that Rupe make on cleaning the pads (soak in water until wash time, then machine wash with unscented detergent and 1/4 cup vinegar), all the pads and buffing cloths came out like new! I cannot notice any deterioration in the pads, except for the edges of one were I clipped the fuel vent with the 'ghosting' part of the pad. Do these pads actually ware down, or do they just become dull over time while retaining their volume/shape? How does one determine the service life of such a pad?

Thanks again in advance, and I am already eying up smaller detailing tools for tight nooks and crannies. No one warned this detail thing could become a slippery slope....

Kind regards to all!!

Dan :buffing:

 

[Aaryn NZ]

Dan buddy, you’re killin’ it. rops:

Look at you kicking @$#. It looks like it’s coming up a treat. Great job mate. :buffing:

In regards to your picture of the pad, yeah, I’d say you did good. I’m impressed at the number of pads you picked up, I know “Detailers” that aren’t willing to invest in enough pads, so big props to you. Pads do wear down & you’re going to figure it out when it’s time to bin them ... I haven’t any pictures to display a pad that I would deem expired but someone else may chime in with one so you have a visual reference.

If you take care of them they will last a good while & you’ll definitely get your money’s worth out of them.

Hahaha, it’s sounds like you’re hooked .... we got him guys! Another one on the brink of addiction to detailing. Let me know if I can help you out with your search for more tools too. :buffing:

I’m impressed my friend, keep up the great work & hopefully the weather will play nice. Lots of rain for me today & temperatures have dropped this afternoon & there’s a dusting of snow on the ranges ... time to move to Florida I think ...


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:

 

[Dan NZ]

Thanks Aaryn, beginners luck perhaps?

No that's not fair... Its all the great advice I have been given! Yes feeling the cold up here too! Funnily enough, in the event I lost my job my wife actually suggested we could move to Florida and I could start a boat building apprenticeship! We visited there a few years ago, starting in Fort Lauderdale and working our way north to Daytona Beach and back down through Orlando. We had an amazing time and I would love to do another trip there, and particularly to watch a SpaceX rocket turn money into low frequency sound and smoke!

Back on topic, I managed to finish the starboard side of the hull today (compound and wax), along with wet sanding the top sides of the cabin for another polishing mission tomorrow. It was slightly harder going in the cold southerly which was blasting the starboard side of the boat. I have a funny feeling the cold blast was working against me, drying the compound faster than a couple of days before, which then created more friction and thus more heat... Kind of ironic! I also threw caution to said wind and dialed it up to 11 (I mean 6 on the flex)! Aside from nearly falling off the ladder when the Beast decided to go for a walk, things certainly seemed to polish out a little glossier. I could feel some heat in the gel at speed 6, can't say I noticed any at speed 5. I guess getting some heat into the cut is good? Or am I running before I can walk?

I can't imagine you need a gym membership! Working the polisher at chest height is ok, but once you start polishing above shoulder height and slightly upside down (like under the flare of the bow), your core and upper body really go to work! Not complaining though, I am getting faster results that I saw at the gym (well, on the boat anyway!). And as for results, I will pop a few more picture in as they are the only evidence of any progress, the finished hull side:

View attachment 69530

And this is a before and after showing the increased clarity and depth that has come back to the bow, an area that really didn't look that bad at first glance. I got a little more technical and made sure these images were taken with the same exposure, though not quite at the same time of the day obviously!

View attachment 69528View attachment 69529

And last but not least, a courier arrived just as I was tidying up for the afternoon. What did he have? A care package from Aaryn NZ. Aaryn buddy... I was expecting a little Ziploc bag with some compound to test, not TWO WHOLE FULL BOTTLES of polish to try out!?! WAY WAY WAY above and beyond, and I am a little lost for words on how kindly you have helped a stranger. I am really excited to try these out, and to compare the results using two steps (two compounds) and will do so on Friday when I take on the port side of the hull. The decals are bonus too! I feel somewhat of a fraud for having an Autogeek decal after just a few weeks on the forum! I look forward to adding your decal to something shiny too. Please extend my thanks to your wife as well!

View attachment 69531

That's enough from me... Beer and snacks are calling!

 

[Aaryn NZ]

Thanks Aaryn, beginners luck perhaps?

No that's not fair... Its all the great advice I have been given! Yes feeling the cold up here too! Funnily enough, in the event I lost my job my wife actually suggested we could move to Florida and I could start a boat building apprenticeship! We visited there a few years ago, starting in Fort Lauderdale and working our way north to Daytona Beach and back down through Orlando. We had an amazing time and I would love to do another trip there, and particularly to watch a SpaceX rocket turn money into low frequency sound and smoke!

Yeah mate, I think you nailed it - Great advice & you’ve taken it on board. (pardon the pun) You’re doing a fantastic job for sure. :xyxthumbs:

Awh man, I would love to live in Florida - If I was younger I’d be all over it. We have only seen a tiny bit of it in total but something about Florida makes us feel good. We love being in Stuart (Where Autogeek is) & we are sure thanking our lucky stars we had our family vacation over the Christmas break in Orlando, Stuart & West Palm Beach, who knows when we will be able to get back. I guess any travel restrictions just gives us more time to save to go back. rops:

Funny you mention SpaceX - we could see a SpaceX launch from the parking lot of the Marriott Hotel in Stuart when we were there - fellow Autogeek, Jerry O’Brian put us onto it, told us where to look etc! Very cool.

I had a customer come into the shop not that long after our first trip to Stuart for one of Mikes Boot Camp Classes back in 2015, & she was having the family vehicle detailed for sale because they had purchased a boat in Florida & Alan, (the Husband) was over there working on it & they were going to live on it for a couple of years & sail around Florida & the Caribbean. Turns out the boat was in Stuart & we struck up a conversation, became FB friends & I followed the families journey ... sadly last year while they were preparing to travel through the Panama Canal, they were boarded by three men trying to steal the outboard of their tender ... Alan locked his Wife & two children below & went to try & scare them away. Alan was fatally shot, a truely sad ending to an incredible journey.

And last but not least, a courier arrived just as I was tidying up for the afternoon. What did he have? A care package from Aaryn NZ. Aaryn buddy... I was expecting a little Ziploc bag with some compound to test, not TWO WHOLE FULL BOTTLES of polish to try out!?! WAY WAY WAY above and beyond, and I am a little lost for words on how kindly you have helped a stranger. I am really excited to try these out, and to compare the results using two steps (two compounds) and will do so on Friday when I take on the port side of the hull. The decals are bonus too! I feel somewhat of a fraud for having an Autogeek decal after just a few weeks on the forum! I look forward to adding your decal to something shiny too. Please extend my thanks to your wife as well!

View attachment 69531

That's enough from me... Beer and snacks are calling!

You’re more than welcome Dan. Enjoy the beer & snacks buddy. Keep up the good work. :buffing:


Aaryn NZ. :dblthumb2:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Back on topic, I managed to finish the starboard side of the hull today (compound and wax), along with wet sanding the top sides of the cabin for another polishing mission tomorrow.

And this is a before and after showing the increased clarity and depth that has come back to the bow, an area that really didn't look that bad at first glance. I got a little more technical and made sure these images were taken with the same exposure, though not quite at the same time of the day obviously!

Looks Great! And capturing reflections and clarity in white gel-coat is tricky!


BEFORE

AFTER

And last but not least, a courier arrived just as I was tidying up for the afternoon. What did he have? A care package from Aaryn NZ. Aaryn buddy... I was expecting a little Ziploc bag with some compound to test, not TWO WHOLE FULL BOTTLES of polish to try out!?! WAY WAY WAY above and beyond, and I am a little lost for words on how kindly you have helped a stranger.

I am really excited to try these out, and to compare the results using two steps (two compounds) and will do so on Friday when I take on the port side of the hull. The decals are bonus too! I feel somewhat of a fraud for having an Autogeek decal after just a few weeks on the forum! I look forward to adding your decal to something shiny too. Please extend my thanks to your wife as well!

View attachment 69531

That's enough from me... Beer and snacks are calling!

I told you he was a great guy and a great resource.


Try to coordinate a trip to Aaryn's shop some weekend. I'm sure it would be a blast and you'll learn a TON!



:dblthumb2:

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

And getting GREAT results ALWAYS starts with GREAT abrasive technology. So many guys think it's all about THEIR technique. That thinking is EGO-DRIVEN. Sorry to disappoint whole lot of Alpha Male detailers but YOU are NOT touching the surface - the abrasives are.

If you ever need proof of this (and I know you don't), then all I can say is look at me. I have almost zero technique having only logged only about 3 hours on the buffer, however the results I have obtained by following the formula have exceeded what I thought possible.

Thanks for sharing this. I tell people all the time - great results START with the stuff touching the surface, be it gel-coat or paint. It's all about the abrasive technology.

Now for a question! This was the condition of the pad after about 2 hours of intermittent polishing (with a couple of dabs of new polish added). I polished one more section with it, then put a new pad on. Have I gone past the point where I should have swapped the pad out? (I have 6 pads).

View attachment 69497View attachment 69496

In my opinion, it's time to switch to a clean, dry pad.

Here's a real simple test, run your hand over a clean dry RUPES Blue Coarse Foam Pad and feel how SHARP the foam feels.

Now feel these wet pads? Very little sharpness left.

You will get better results faster by swapping out to clean, dry pads as you work around the boat. And yeah, that means having a lot of pads. But the nice thing about these pads is because of the very large, open pore design - they wash out really well.

I just throw them in the washing machine and then the dryer and they come out looking just as clean as when they were new. You will see them wear-out. This style of foam tends to shred or tear easy. That's goes with the "type" of foam they are but it's this "type" of foam that works so well to create gloss on gel-coat.

I use these pads until they are completely chewed up. I don't waste anything here at the AG garage. Of course BRAND NEW pads are the best but you can squeeze a LOT of use out of these pads regardless.



Nice work on the boat and I really appreciate you taking the time to stop working - take pictures of your project and then sharing them on this forum for the world to see.


:bow: :bow: :bow:



Also - it's kind of tricky to get pictures into the gallery, but in-case you want to try, here's the link to your free gallery here on AGO where I put your pictures so they can be "inserted" using the tags as then they show up full size.


[url=https://www.autogeekonline.net/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/117953]Dan NZ Gallery - AutogeekOnline Gallery[/url]



:)

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

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