Help with wax/wash process- about to give up!

Go pick up a chenille mitt at your local auto parts store. See how that goes

I just got the green one that Junkman used in his videos.

But want to invest in a different one in the future, ones that AG sells (jus cause lol)

As far as the water, I have no idea. But anything is always possible. (But who knows...)
 
manman said:
That sounds about right. I don't use 2 bucket wash ever since I got the foam cannon. I usually re-foam a bit directly after the initial pass (like I do a really quick second pass) but not after the 5 min wait. I do rinse the mitt roughly once every panel, using the grit guard in a 5 gal bucket. I don't know if my mitt is just bad or it has something caught in it that isn't washing out, but it's crazy how it's like the /instant/ it touches the paint, no pressure, and there are the streaks. Do you think I should still do a 2 bucket wash? Might it be too little lubrication from not enough soap?

About drying methods- I'm sure it has nothing to do with the way I'm drying since I checked the paint right after the mitt and before drying. For drying I just pat dry with a WW- I didn't see any further marring from that step.

Like I said- this also happened when I used an ONR rinseless wash mixture as well. Is it also possible it's the water? I'm not using distilled water or anything, just regular hose.
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I never had luck with just ONR on any BMW Jet Black. This stupid paint system would scratch if I sneeze on it too hard.

I generally rinse with the power washer after pre-soak. I would foam it up again (panel by panel). Wash with the mitt and hose the panel off immediately. I also rinse the mitt in a bucket after every panel. A 2 buckets wash system could be use here instead of foam but it just seems like an extra step.

Lubrication is the key to all of this. For drying, it is the "Master Blaster".....there is no substitute. Like Junkman said....It has 2 settings. A "Yeah" and a "Hell Yeah".
 
There will also be a sponge version coming soon.
 
hernandez.art13 said:
I checked it out, another member had that mitt at the SoCal meet up.

Looked really nice. So will be going with this one.

Thank You af90

Here's a picture for others to see

View attachment 21140
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I got one of those as well as their towels (yellow fellow, Crazy Pile). They are the cats meow....

I wish we could do something like what you guys did up in North Ca. I would have joined you guys if it was closer to me.
 
af90 said:
There will also be a sponge version coming soon.
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You have more info on that? I am not going to buy another mitt until after October. Flex will come first :) (maybe another Pep Boys mitt in the meantime)

I'll start a thread on my next purchase around that time. Looks like I'll be getting an AG banner with that purchase lol
 
That's all I know as of now, it'll be the exact same mitt just in sponge form. Hopefully within a month or so? I don't particularly use mitts and sponges often since I do mostly rinseless. But from what I've heard is that it is definitely coming so just keep an eye over on CarPro for it. If I see it I'll post up.
 
hernandez.art13 said:
You have more info on that? I am not going to buy another mitt until after October. Flex will come first :) (maybe another Pep Boys mitt in the meantime)

I'll start a thread on my next purchase around that time. Looks like I'll be getting an AG banner with that purchase lol
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It will be in stock in about 2 weeks from what I heard.:props:
 
The thing is, while Jet Black shows every little thing, but the clear coat is the same as every other BMW color. That's what you are actually washing, not Jet Black paint.

Can you show us a picture of these defects so we can see if they look washed induced?

I have a funny feeling your polishing is only masking the defects (WG polishes will do that), and then when you wash it, your washing off the "oils" or "fillers" from the polishes.

Getting JB paint to look defect free in the polishing stage is rather difficult. I'm thinking that maybe the "marring" is left over from your polishing, and your not seeing it until you wash off the fillers.
 
swanicyouth said:
The thing is, while Jet Black shows every little thing, but the clear coat is the same as every other BMW color. That's what you are actually washing, not Jet Black paint.

Can you show us a picture of these defects so we can see if they look washed induced?

I have a funny feeling your polishing is only masking the defects (WG polishes will do that), and then when you wash it, your washing off the "oils" or "fillers" from the polishes.

Getting JB paint to look defect free in the polishing stage is rather difficult. I'm thinking that maybe the "marring" is left over from your polishing, and your not seeing it until you wash off the fillers.
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Thanks for the heads up there. I guess that's a possibility, but I highly doubt it for a few reasons. The main reason is that I've used IPA wipedown after my polishing steps before to get rid of the polish streaks (and reveal any concealment due to fillers like you mentioned). I never saw any marring like this revealed after that step, so I'm pretty sure the product/process is actually removing the swirls and not just hiding them. Also- since I put sealant/wax on top, wouldn't that prevent a regular soap wash from wiping away any concealment from the polish anyway?

I've never heard of washing with a regular car wash soap (i.e. not something that would strip chemicals like dawn/IPA) washing away fillers- if that was the case wouldn't those products be totally worthless? (I mean, maybe they still kind of are, but... lol)

I'll see if I can get some pictures, but from paying careful attention to every step, I'm pretty much positive the marring was introduced from the wash/mitt step.
 
manman said:
Thanks for the heads up there. I guess that's a possibility, but I highly doubt it for a few reasons. The main reason is that I've used IPA wipedown after my polishing steps before to get rid of the polish streaks (and reveal any concealment due to fillers like you mentioned). I never saw any marring like this revealed after that step, so I'm pretty sure the product/process is actually removing the swirls and not just hiding them. Also- since I put sealant/wax on top, wouldn't that prevent a regular soap wash from wiping away any concealment from the polish anyway?

I've never heard of washing with a regular car wash soap (i.e. not something that would strip chemicals like dawn/IPA) washing away fillers- if that was the case wouldn't those products be totally worthless? (I mean, maybe they still kind of are, but... lol)

I'll see if I can get some pictures, but from paying careful attention to every step, I'm pretty much positive the marring was introduced from the wash/mitt step.
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You have some interesting questions in this post and I hope a regular chimes in here.

swanicyouth brought up my first thoughts as well. Are you sure you actually got that paint perfect and it's not the oils masking anything?

You said you used IPA. I've never used it myself. I HAVE used CarPro Eraser to check my work however and I'm not sure just how capable the stuff is at actually removing polish residue, or stripping wax or sealants for that matter.

I feel your pain. I own a black car myself. Maybe you should try IPAing a section on your car that is FLAWLESS. IPA it three or four times and really check and see if you actually corrected the paint flawlessly or if there is possibly some oils/fillers masking it.

Just a thought.
 
I ONR my black car, have you tried that? The water where I live spots and ONR is basically magic in my opinion. My black car will swirl over time a little bit, but Menz SF 4500 is enough to bring it back and that stuff supposedly has very, very little cut. I guess my question is, when you say your washing is putting swirls back in, what are we talking about here? How many swirls? You're probably going to see a few super fine scratches after you wash on a black car. Are you critiquing the paint a lot harder after you wash compared to after you polish? Just trying to throw some more stuff out there.

Slow down, think about things carefully, and come up with some hypotheses and then test them. Again, I feel your pain, please don't let my posts come off as anything more than trying to be helpful. Hopefully you figure out what's what here; I'm almost as anxious as you I think.
 
StuDLei said:
You have some interesting questions in this post and I hope a regular chimes in here.

swanicyouth brought up my first thoughts as well. Are you sure you actually got that paint perfect and it's not the oils masking anything?

You said you used IPA. I've never used it myself. I HAVE used CarPro Eraser to check my work however and I'm not sure just how capable the stuff is at actually removing polish residue, or stripping wax or sealants for that matter.

I feel your pain. I own a black car myself. Maybe you should try IPAing a section on your car that is FLAWLESS. IPA it three or four times and really check and see if you actually corrected the paint flawlessly or if there is possibly some oils/fillers masking it.

Just a thought.
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Yeah- I pretty much did do that. I really bathed it in IPA + wiped down a few times, and then did a QD wipedown and fully dried before putting on the sealant/wax. At every step this time I was hitting it with the brinkman light to make sure no scratches were showing since my first experience sucked (2 step polishing the whole car and realizing at the end I wasn't doing it right!)

Also, are WG products really known for containing a lot of fillers? I actually went with WG because I thought it was known for being high quality stuff and didn't use fillers. I thought about going with menzerna as well, but I read some things that WG was a little more user friendly, and since I didn't have any experience I thought that would be better.
 
manman said:
Yeah- I pretty much did do that. I really bathed it in IPA + wiped down a few times, and then did a QD wipedown and fully dried before putting on the sealant/wax. At every step this time I was hitting it with the brinkman light to make sure no scratches were showing since my first experience sucked (2 step polishing the whole car and realizing at the end I wasn't doing it right!)

Also, are WG products really known for containing a lot of fillers? I actually went with WG because I thought it was known for being high quality stuff and didn't use fillers. I thought about going with menzerna as well, but I read some things that WG was a little more user friendly, and since I didn't have any experience I thought that would be better.
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I'm not the right guy to ask about WG polishes, I've never used them.

When you say you're getting swirls when you wash, what are we talking about here?
 
StuDLei said:
I'm not the right guy to ask about WG polishes, I've never used them.

When you say you're getting swirls when you wash, what are we talking about here?
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Oh, that question was a response to swanicyouth. He said WG polishes do mask defects, but I had heard (and so far, experienced) differently.

I guess I shouldn't call them 'swirls' since that implies a certain pattern- I meant that I was getting very fine, but visible scratches, in the direction that I was scrubbing with the mitt. Very hard to see outside of direct sunslight or with a swirlfinder light like the brinkman- but definitely not there before the mitt touched- there after.

I'm still also wondering why the sealant and high carnuba content wax didn't give me any protection whatsoever here... I thought carnuba waxes were really hard. The beading I saw indicates that the product was there and working I would imagine, so that part of things really confuses me as well.
 
manman said:
That sounds about right. I don't use 2 bucket wash ever since I got the foam cannon. I usually re-foam a bit directly after the initial pass (like I do a really quick second pass) but not after the 5 min wait. I do rinse the mitt roughly once every panel, using the grit guard in a 5 gal bucket. I don't know if my mitt is just bad or it has something caught in it that isn't washing out, but it's crazy how it's like the /instant/ it touches the paint, no pressure, and there are the streaks. Do you think I should still do a 2 bucket wash? Might it be too little lubrication from not enough soap?

About drying methods- I'm sure it has nothing to do with the way I'm drying since I checked the paint right after the mitt and before drying. For drying I just pat dry with a WW- I didn't see any further marring from that step.

Like I said- this also happened when I used an ONR rinseless wash mixture as well. Is it also possible it's the water? I'm not using distilled water or anything, just regular hose.
Click to expand...

That would be a factor I'd consider - the foam from a foam cannon (versus that from a foam gun) is a lot drier, and thus, as you mention, might not provide as much lubrication. That's why I feel that a foam gun, with it's more watery output, is actually a better wash solution bucket replacement than a foam cannon.
 
manman said:
Oh, that question was a response to swanicyouth. He said WG polishes do mask defects, but I had heard (and so far, experienced) differently.

I guess I shouldn't call them 'swirls' since that implies a certain pattern- I meant that I was getting very fine, but visible scratches, in the direction that I was scrubbing with the mitt. Very hard to see outside of direct sunslight or with a swirlfinder light like the brinkman- but definitely not there before the mitt touched- there after.

I'm still also wondering why the sealant and high carnuba content wax didn't give me any protection whatsoever here... I thought carnuba waxes were really hard. The beading I saw indicates that the product was there and working I would imagine, so that part of things really confuses me as well.
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WG Swirl Remover is made by Menzerna and is very similar to SI 1500 (PO 83). Most polishes contain some type of agent/oil in them to promote a longer work cycle. It is this agent that could mask minor defects.

A sealant or a wax generally don't do much to prevent fine scratches IMO. Their main goal is to protect the paint from the elements ( a sacrificial layer of sort). If you are looking for a product that would give your paint a little extra hardness, look into a coating like Opti-coat, CQuartz, and Gtechnig C1. Be-warn...even these products could still be scratched since they are not a force field. It just takes a lot more effort to do so.
 
psnt1ol said:
WG Swirl Remover is made by Menzerna and is very similar to SI 1500 (PO 83). Most polishes contain some type of agent/oil in them to promote a longer work cycle. It is this agent that could mask minor defects.

A sealant or a wax generally don't do much to prevent fine scratches IMO. Their main goal is to protect the paint from the elements ( a sacrificial layer of sort). If you are looking for a product that would give your paint a little extra hardness, look into a coating like Opti-coat, CQuartz, and Gtechnig C1. Be-warn...even these products could still be scratched since they are not a force field. It just takes a lot more effort to do so.
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Do coatings really offer some level of scratch resistance? I have never used one and I'd love to try one at some point, but it's probably going to be awhile. It would be interesting if manman tested this on one of his panels to see if it helped prevent these tiny scratches.

Manman-- yesterday I polished about half of my car with Menzerna sf4500, just to clean it up a bit. It had some water spots and light scratches from ONRing the past year. Well, the rear of my car (the bumper) is plastic, so are the rear quater panels. Both have been repainted. Last night I went out to my garage, after reading this thread. I used Eraser in one spot several times to check my work and everything was good. Well, I wanted to throw some protection on the areas I had polished so I used some OCW. Everything was fine, EXCEPT for the plastic, repainted parts. They immediately had light swirls in them and to be honest, they were pretty bad. Not near as bad as the plastic pieces that had not been polished, but something definitely changed. I don't know if the OCW got rid of some fillers in that part of the paint, or if the paint is just that soft there or what, but the swirls were coming back in a hurry. I don't think it has anything to do with being repainted, as all of the parts of my car that are plastic have swirled up much more over the last year (since 105/205) than the metal parts.

I don't get it either. So anyways, we're in somewhat of the same boat.


Oh and for you guys that use coatings, what does it take to become a pro installer of the coatings that require it? How do you go about it? Just curious.
 
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