How do you explain paint correction to a customer?

Really hard to "sell" paint correction. Most people that inquire about paint correction already know what is and ask for it by name (eg. buffing, scratches removed, various names).

For someone who doesn't know a swirl from a squirrel, its a hard if not impossible sell. If they haven't noticed the paint defects by now why would they pay hundreds of dollars to have them removed?

I don't ever try to sell paint correction unless people ask about it. If you are going to up-sell it is much easier and more useful to the client to sell something that will really benefit them such as a coating, odor removal, ect..

I also agree with Pureshine. No matter what business you are in, in the long run you will be better off if you never try and sell to someone something they don't need or want.
 
Vue to a kill said:
As far as a test spot, one of the Mikes (either Mike Stoops or Mike Phillips) I believe had one time suggested to do the demonstration spot in an obvious area so the customer's eye would constantly be drawn to how drastic the difference between the corrected and uncorrected sections were.
Click to expand...


That would be me.... :D

It's kind of mean but here's the article....



The Cruel Test Spot - This or that? - Reverse Bait & Switch


The Cruel Test Spot
One thing I've done a lot of in my detailing career that's a little cruel, a little risky but sometimes very effective and that's to do a little test spot on the hood of a potential customer's car to show them what you can do and what can be done for their car's paint.

This can be very effective if the paint is horribly swirled-out or oxidized and of course if they're not ready to hire you after the test spot, then let them get back to you.


Cruel
This is kind of cruel because since most people don't know how to create a totally clear, swirl free finish on their car's paint, by you doing this you'll have created a single spot that will stand out like a Sore Thumb in which their eyes, and all their friends eyes, will be attracted to each time they walk by and look at the car. It can even get you future clients you've never met before.

Risky
It's also kind of risky because it's possible that the person could become annoyed by your artistic work if they decide they don't care if their car's paint looks good or not and want you to "even" out the finish which is another way of saying, "Free Detail". Now that's never happened to me personally but I can see where it's a potential risk. This is why it's very important to Evaluate the Customer before you Evaluate the Car.


Effective
Assuming you make that one little spot look awesome they can either
  • Hire you to finish the car
  • Try to duplicate what you did on their own
  • Try to hire someone that can do what you did
Be sure to point out using the sun or a Brinkman Swirl Finder Light that the results you created are clear, shiny AND swirl-free because any hack detailer can make paint shiny but they can't always make it clear and swirl-free. Using the "Cruel Test Spot Technique" is most effective if you can do on the hood of a car, usually towards the front driver's side, so every time the owner goes to their car they'll see a glimpse or teaser of how the entire car could look.





This or that? Your choice!
My friend Joe aka Superior Shine has a twist on this that's a better marketing approach, what he'll do is two test spots, he'll show a prospective customer what a simple cleaner/wax will do and then he'll do a multiple-step process to a nearby section and then share a little about the difference in complexity, time, labor and materials and let the customer decide which option.

This is a surefire way to get the job because if they don't want the more expensive multi-step show car finish they'll usually want the high quality one-step approach as Joe is very good with any approach and a job is a job. Actually, in some ways, just doing a GREAT one-step is faster and you've already established and grounded their expectations so they're not out of this world.

Genius.




Reverse Bait & Switch
I have yet another well-known detailer buddy that asked to remain anonymous, that has a twist on Joe's approach and that is to offer a very high dollar detail to a prospective customer with a high-end car but then also offer them their very good simple 2-step package that won't remove each and every scratch but will make the car absolutely glow and most of the time the prospective customer will go for the simple 2-step approach which is still in the $400.00 to $600.00 dollar range.

Genius.


Think about it...
Maybe this will spark your imagination to modify one of these techniques or simply incorporate it into your marketing practices.


:bolt:
 
Here's a few comments to add to this thread....

When I'm trying to educate someone that doesn't know anything about the paint on their car, (and that's the stuff we work on), and what it takes to undo damage and restore perfection, I start with letting them know how thin the actual clear layer of paint is and that it is easisly scratched but because it's hard it's both difficult and time consuming to remove the scratches.


I hand them a 3M Post-it Note to drive the point home. Like I show in this article,

Clearcoats are Scratch-Sensitive


Clearcoat paints have a characteristic called,


Scratch-Sensitive


This means even though the paints are very hard they still scratch very easily and because there's a colored layer of paint under the clear, the colored layer works to amplify and magnify the surface or topical scratches making them easy for the human eye to see.


This drives car enthusiasts up the wall.


It also confuses people to no end because it's hard for people to wrap their brains around the concept of how a car's paint can be very hard but then scratch so easily.


The hardness factor smacks you upside the head when you're first learning how to either hand or machine polish because you find out real fast removing the swirls out of a clear coat finish is not as easy at it sound like it should be.

Again, this is for people brand new to working on clearcoats, seasoned pros acquire the skills that make removing swirls and scratches for them very easy via experience.


Once a person completely understands and fully grasps how the hardness factor affects the time, energy and resources required to remove swirls and scratches out of a modern clearcoat finish the light bulb in their head turns >on< and then they understand why it's so important to make sure that ANYTHING that TOUCHES the paint needs to be of the highest quality you can obtain and there needs to be some thinking going on as to the way or manner in which you touch the paint.

In other words, once you figure all of the above out and then buff your car's paint out to the point that you're happy with it, now you have to be mindful of,



  • How "you" wash and dry it.
  • How "you" wipe it with any type of spray-on product.
  • How you let "someone else" wash it.
  • How you let "someone else" wipe it with any spray-on product or even touch it at all.


The above 4 things are how a car is "touched" the most for most people and most cars. (think about it).


Make sense?



Clearcoat paints are scratch-sensitive. They are harder than traditional single stage paints but even though they are harder they still scratch very easily and because they are hard it's difficult to get the scratches out.


Abrasive Technology
This leads into the next topic people discover and that is the most important factor that determines if swirls and scratches are removed WITHOUT the product, pad and process simply replacing one type of defect and replacing it with its own type of defects, (holograms or micro-marring), and that factor is the abrasive technology. The stuff inside the bottle.


So be careful how you work on your own car and if you let someone else work on your car make sure they are qualified.

This includes taking your beautiful brand new car to ANY type of car wash, (things touch your car's paint at a car wash).

Or if you take your car to the dealership to have the oil changed because dealerships love you so much they will have your car washed, (touched), by their car wash guys...


See these articles...

How to maintain a freshly waxed car

DON'T WASH CAR !!!!!!!!!!!


Scratch your car for $5.00

The reality of the 100% Hand Car Wash


And the really BIG reason all of this is important?


Because clearcoats are THIN. The factory sprayed clear layer of paint on most new cars averages around 2 mils. That's thinner than the average post-it note.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_01.jpg




The next time you see a post-it note... feel it between your fingers... this is usually all it takes to drive home the point as to how thin the paint is on your beautiful, shiny car.

Clearcoat_Paints_Are_Thin_02.jpg



There you go...


Win/Win
Please feel encouraged to share the link to this article with anyone you think needs to be brought up to speed about the paint on their car.



:xyxthumbs:
 
Then I wipe a section of the paint clean and have them FEEL the paint with their BARE HAND FIRST because this will give them a FALSE IMPRESSION.

Next I have them do the Baggie Test.

This shows them what's really going on with their paint and it also shows them I actually know something about my trade. Moving into the future if they ever talk to any other detailer that DOES NOT explain the paint thinness issue or the contamination issue my guess is they will remember me and then it will hit home that they were talking to a guy that actually knows something about car detailing unlike the guy they are talking to in the present.


the Baggie Test is so simple to do. I shared it twice on "My Classic Car" for the 2014 TV season, once when inspecting glass and once when inspecting paint.

Even had Dennis Gage demonstrate it on a 1955 Ford F100


Candy Apple 1955 Ford F100 with Black Label Diamond Paint Coating

1955_Ford_F150_006.jpg






Here's a tip...

If you're a Detailer, keep a clean microfiber towel with you, some spray detailer a box of sandwich baggies and some 3M Post-it Notes. Call it your "Sales Kit".



Here's the Baggies Test,

The Baggie Test - How to inspect for above surface bonded contaminants


After washing and drying your car, the next thing you want to do is to inspect the paint for what we call,

Above Surface Bonded Contaminants

These contaminants can be,

  • Tree Sap Mist
  • Industrial Fallout
  • Overspray Paint
  • Air-borne Dirt and Dust
  • Pollution
  • Road Grime
You can check for above surface bonded contaminants by feeling the horizontal surfaces with your clean, bare hand using your sense of touch to detect what will feel like little bumps or surface texture on the finish. This type of inspection works well and is a good general indicator of above surface bonded contaminants.

The Baggie Test
If you really want to feel what's going on at the surface level of your car's paint or your customer's car's paint, then use "The Baggie Test" when inspecting the paint for above surface bonded contaminants.

Better yet, if you want to share with your customer one of the problems with their car's paint that you're going to correct, let them also do "The Baggie Test" with you. The average car owner doesn't know what detailing clay is, how to use it or the benefits of using detailing clay to clay automotive paint, let alone how to test for above surface bonded contaminants.

Sharing this little tidbit of knowledge with your customer will demonstrate to them that you really know your business and later, after you've finished the job, letting them feel the now smooth and slippery paint will solidify their trust in your expertise. This can help you to retain their business and potentially led to referrals via word-of-mouth advertising.

To do "The Baggie Test", simply use a clean sandwich baggie by placing your hand inside the baggie and then feeling the horizontal surfaces like the hood, roof and trunk lid. The film of plastic acts to intensify the surface texture created by contaminants bonded to the paint making it more dramatic to your sense of touch when you feel the paint through the baggie.


The Baggie Test
PaintCleaningByHand021.jpg



PaintCleaningByHand022.jpg




You can also inspect the vertical panels and if you detect above surface bonded contaminants on these areas then they should be clayed also. Generally speaking, air-borne contaminants will land and settle on the horizontal surfaces but drift past the vertical panels where they will land on the ground. The main exception to this rule is any air-borne contaminant that is sticky, like Tree Sap Mist or Overspray Paint.
 
So once you've educated the owner of some car that the clearcoat finish on their car is thin, easily scratched and probably contaminated.

Then let them know you can undo the damage and restore the paint BUT be sure to

MATCH YOUR SERVICES TO YOUR CUSTOMER

That is, don't get caught up on putting a flawless, swirl free show car finish on some guys Toyota Camry, Honda Accord or Chrysler Town & Country Van. These are called daily drivers and most people just want,

Shiny paint.
Clear glass
Clean interoir
Black tires


If they are driving a Porsche or a Corvette and understand that after you restore the paint that NOW anytime the paint is going to be "touched" that it must be touched carefully or it will become swirled out again, including careful HAND WASHING, then and only then offer to do a multple step process.

Here's my article on this topic,



A few tips on starting a part-time detailing business
Match your services to your customer


First... match your services to your client or market


Over the years here's the normal trend I see on detailing discussion forums...
  • "Car Guy" or "Car Girl" joins car detailing forum reads, asks questions, increases their knowledge.
  • Purchases products, often times moves up to machine polishing because clear coats are too hard and too time consuming to work on by hand.
  • Sees first-hand, phenomenal results from their new found knowledge, skills and abilities.
  • Starts a part-time detailing business.
  • Makes the mistake of offering "Show Car Detailing" to a customer base that knowingly, or unknowingly wants and will only pay for "Production Detailing".
The above two terms for the purpose of this article are generally described as...

Show Car Detailing = Multiple Step Process
Production Detailing = One Step Process


The point is, for most people just starting out the majority of your customers are going to be people with daily drivers and this demographic group are primarily interested in having a shiny car, black tires, clear windows and a vacuumed interior. They won't appreciate a 100% swirl-free finish and generally won't want to pay for it and also won't know how to maintain a swirl free finish after you with all your hard work create these types of results.

This is further explained in this article,

The difference between a swirl and squirrel


Someone just starting a part-time detailing business usually has very noble goals and strives to create show car results for every car they detail and I understand your passion as it is explained here,

The Mindset of a Professional Detailer


That said, you need to match your services to your target market and by this I mean you don't want to offer a multiple step process to the average person with a daily driver that includes,
  1. Car Washing
  2. Claying the paint
  3. Paint Correction - Removing swirls, scratches and water spots
  4. Polishing - Maximizing gloss and clarity by refining the results from the correction step
  5. Sealing or protecting the paint with a car wax or paint sealant

And here's why... the above is a multiple-step approach, it will take you more time than doing a one-step and in most cases you won't be able to charge your demographic market enough money to make enough profit to make it worth your time AND be enjoyable. Working for free is a fast way to take all the fun out of a hobby that's turning into a business.


Instead when first starting out you should be doing a one-step processes or one-step detail jobs.
  1. Wash
  2. Clay
  3. One-Step Cleaner/Wax by hand or machine
This is what's called a One-Step Process, it's actually 3 steps but washing and claying are accepted normal procedures in this day and age for detailing cars whether you're doing Show Car Detailing or Production Detailing.

If you want to do show car work, that is a multiple step processes, then I would recommend to first evaluate your customer and make sure you're matching your services at a profitable price point to customers that actually want show care results.


Production Detailing
Don't do show car detailing for someone that is going to run the car through a car wash as a normal maintenance procedure. It won't be good for you and it won't be good for your potential customer. You should target show car work to people that will appreciate your hard work and that will appreciate the results as well as be knowledgeable enough to understand that clear coat paints are scratch-sensitive and require proper care to stay swirl free.

Since the majority of people that will pay to have their car washed and waxed, (so they don't have to do it themselves), will fall into people that own Daily Drivers, and this larger target market will fall into the category of Production Detailing or in other words, doing one-step procedures to the paint.

The general goal of this type of work isn't to remove ALL the swirls, but to simply make the paint shiny again. Most people don't know what swirls are, they see paint that is either shiny or it's not shiny.

KISS - Keep it Simple Simon
Here's the good news... it's easy to make paint shiny! Show Car Detailing has been historically time and labor intensive with a measured amount of risk. Production Detailing or doing One-Steps is a lot faster, requires a lot less work and there's very little to zero risk. You just follow the basics,
1. Wash and dry car to remove loose surface dirt.

2. Use detailing clay to remove above surface bonded contaminants and restore smoothness to the paint. This is key because gloss comes from smoothness and restored gloss is a powerful visible before-and-after result that your customer will notice.

3. Use a quality one-step cleaner/wax to clean, polish and protect the paint. A quality cleaner/wax will remove surface oxidation, staining and minor surface imperfections. S cleaner/waxes will even remove and/or reduce minor or shallow swirls and scratches. A quality cleaner/wax or cleaner/paint sealant will restore clarity to clear coats and increase shine. Again, these are dramatic before-and-after visible differences that your customer will notice and appreciate.

And just to add, claying the paint with detailing clay also enables your choice of wax or paint sealant to bond better to the paint thus last longer and thus protect longer. These are benefits your customer wants but may not understand very well the reasons why claying helps wax to last longer so this is where you have the opportunity to educate them and set yourself apart from the average detailer with your knowledge.
(Use this to get referrals)

4. Apply some tire dressing to restore a deep, dark black appearance to the tires, clean the windows, vacuum and clean the interior and make sure it smells clean with a fresh scent and that's your basic service package and for the majority of car owners that's what they want, knowingly or unknowingly.​
When first starting out, try to keep things simple, for example offer 4 plans each with it's own price point.
  1. Simple Car Wash - Wash and dry car. (Up-sell dressing tires, cleaning inside of windows)
  2. Interior Detail
  3. Exterior Detail
  4. Interior and Exterior Package

Create a consistent monthly income
Also offer a Monthly Maintenance Program with monthly billing. For an agreed price, once a week or twice a month or even once a month provide one of your services to maintain your customer's car so it always looks great. Once you do the initial detail maintaining their car into the future will be fast and easy and by setting them up on a regular schedule with monthly billing you will insure a consistent income at the beginning of each month for your business. Most of the detailers I know that have been successful offer monthly maintenance programs and make this the focus of their business. Keep it simple so you keep if fast and always be prepared to pick up a new customer at the location you do the work.

Monthly Maintenance Program
  • Wash once a week
  • Wash and wax every other week
For both of the above you will also include vacuuming and cleaning the windows but keep in mind, after the initial detail where you do the brunt of the work, these follow-up maintenance sessions will be very fast and easy. What your customer will appreciate is that there car is meticulously clean each time the see it and all the time they are in it, and a lot of professionals in any industry appreciate this kind of luxury and are willing to pay to have someone else maintain their vehicle.


Show Car Detailing
Go for the show car work if that's what you're interested in but target the Corvette owner, BMW, Lexus, Cadillac or any owner of what you think of as "Special Interest" cars. Keep in mind that what you think is "Special Interest" may not be the same as your customer, so be sensitive to other's preferences.

For example, I'm not trying to pick on PT Cruiser owners but just as an example, some people would view these cars as just a normal car while the owner may view their PT Cruiser as a "Special Interest Car" and marketing a multi-step process to an owner that will appreciate and take care of your hard work can be a profitable win/win deal.

Of course, show car detailing requires more skill and experience than most people just starting out have so don't run before you can walk. If you're just starting out get experience doing production detailing on daily drivers and continue gaining knowledge by reading discussion forums like AutogeekOnline.net and try to attend as many detailing classes as you can, always be open to learning about new products and procedures, this is something I practice myself.


Also, look at the websites of some of our regular pro detailers, (that have websites listing their services), to get an idea of what they charge for their packages. Don't try to re-invent the wheel but also don't copy other people's work word for word.


I just wrote an new article on how to put up a website for about $20.00 a year, here you go...

How to put up a website for about $20.00 a year

Be sure to read these articles before purchasing a domain name...
:)
 
The "reverse bait and switch" is an absolutely disgusting practice.

Yes, evaluate the customer and the car, and Mike your clients may be more likely willing/able to pay for a correction after that than most; but it's a horrible way of "embarassing" them into paying for a correction. Feels like blackmail.

The only way to make the car look "even" again is to pay the detailer. That's predatory and abusive.

Not arguing the success of this, I can see why it would work - but that doesn't make it right.
 
And if you're serious about having a detailing business then have 3-4 packages.

Have a package for every car, every customer and every budget. If you don't have a copy of my VIF then get one and if nothing else study it to help you form your own packages so can build your customer base but build it by matching the right and best package for the type of customer and the type of car.


Mike Phillips VIF or Vehicle Inspection Form



:xyxthumbs:
 
I point at their paint and say "See all those circles in your paint? I can remove them or at least greatly reduce them by using a machine polisher. After they are gone (and wax is applied) your paint will have much more clarity then traditional hand waxing. Would you like to have this process done, or do you want me to hand wax over all those circles?"


Kyle_Elantra said:
Do NOT do a test spot without asking.

That's the worst idea on AG.
Click to expand...

:iagree:

I've always thought that was a good way to set yourself up into doing a FREE Paint Correction
 
And when it comes to doing production work, protect your reputation and do everything you can to upsell any owner of a dark or black colored car your package that offers TWO STEPS.

Anytime I talk about "STEPS" on this forum as it relates to buffing out a car it means the things you do to the paint AFTER the normal steps.

The normal steps for ANY detail are,

  • Washing and drying
  • Mechanically decontaminating the paint - Detailing Clay/Nanoskin products etc.
  • Chemically decontaminating the paint (optional - be sure to upsell) = Iron X etc.
Those are normal "steps" When talking about how many steps you're going to offer in a detailing package it's the steps you do after these normal steps.



One-Step = using a one-step cleaner/wax.

Two Step = Using a dedicated polish followed by a dedicated LSP.

Three Step = Using a dedicated compound, dedicated polish and dedicated LSP.

Four Step = Dedicated compound, dedicated polish, dedicated polish dedicated LSP.




So for dark or black colored cars you really to try to do a two step, that is a dedicated polish step followed by the wax.

I explain why and how here,


High quality production detailing by Mike Phillips




:xyxthumbs:
 
Kyle_Elantra said:
The "reverse bait and switch" is an absolutely disgusting practice.
Click to expand...

The words sound bad that is "bait and switch" but the practice is completely fine and if I shared the name of the guy that shared this with me you would probably be surprised. And he's a very famous detailer.



Doing a two step is actually one of the best packages you can offer because it gets you out of having to create a totally show car finish, which is very time consuming and most people won't pay for but it also allows you to still do VERY GOOD work and get paid for it.

So be careful abut your judgment and don't take the words so literal, it's the package and marketing that is win/win for both you and your customer.



Kyle_Elantra said:
Yes, evaluate the customer and the car, and Mike your clients may be more likely willing/able to pay for a correction after that than most; but it's a horrible way of "embarrassing" them into paying for a correction. Feels like blackmail.
Click to expand...

Kyle, did you see this paragraph?


Risky
It's also kind of risky because it's possible that the person could become annoyed by your artistic work if they decide they don't care if their car's paint looks good or not and want you to "even" out the finish which is another way of saying, "Free Detail". Now that's never happened to me personally but I can see where it's a potential risk. This is why it's very important to Evaluate the Customer before you Evaluate the Car.



This isn't my first rodeo. I write very carefully on forums. And I wrote that paragraph to to teach and warn others to not get themselves into trouble.

Ive done thousands of test spots on cars and some I've gone on to detail and some I have not but always with the owner's blessing.

I know another famous detailer that does the Good, Better Best on the hood and then lets the customer decide. He starts by evaluating the customer and doesn't get himself into trouble and if I said his name you would all recognize it.




Kyle_Elantra said:
The only way to make the car look "even" again is to pay the detailer. That's predatory and abusive.
Click to expand...

Of course I hope everyone has some common sense and uses it when talking to customers and anytime they are going to do a test or showcase what they can do to anyone's car.

If you read through my posting history on this forum or any forum for the past 12 years you do NOT find a history or pattern of me leading people down the wrong road and in fact just the opposite.




Kyle_Elantra said:
Not arguing the success of this, I can see why it would work - but that doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...

Good discussion....


:dblthumb2:
 
Thank You Lord for putting me in a position where I don't have to trick people into using my services
 
If it's a woman I tell them machine polishing is like getting a face scrub. Most can relate to that and will at least go for a 1 step polish

:)
 
Kyle_Elantra said:
The "reverse bait and switch" is an absolutely disgusting practice.



Yes, evaluate the customer and the car, and Mike your clients may be more likely willing/able to pay for a correction after that than most; but it's a horrible way of "embarassing" them into paying for a correction. Feels like blackmail.



The only way to make the car look "even" again is to pay the detailer. That's predatory and abusive.



Not arguing the success of this, I can see why it would work - but that doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...


I disagree with this. As long as you are upfront with the client and tell them what the corrected spot will look like and that it will stand out like a sore thumb, if they are still curious to see what you can do to fix their paint, then you have given them the information they need to make an informed decision. If you evaluate the client properly then you will know when to not even bother offering to do this.

If you just do a test spot without telling them what you are doing, that's a different story and I agree with you that that is highly unethical. That's like shoveling someone's driveway then ringing their doorbell and telling them they owe you 50 bucks.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
By the way, next Thursday we're buffing out a car here at Autogeek that I only did a test spot on.

That was back on April 12th. The owner of the car has been driving his car around for a month with one spot on the car looking swirl free.

I told hime AHEAD of time that we couldn't get to the entire car till May becuase my schedule is too busy. He was perfectly fine with this and I've met him and talked with him at our local car show for the last month on Tuesday nights and he's always showing everyone the swirl-free section compared to the rest of the paint.

It's been a great demonstration car to show others what their car can look like and after next Thursday when he goes to the car shows he can show them the final results. My guess is he's educated hundreds of people what a swirled out show car looks like and next he'll show hundreds of people what a show car finish looks like.


Sign-up: 1966 Nova Race Car- Thursday, May 15th, 2014


I met the owner Thom at our first Cars & Coffee, pictures here,

Pictures: 1st Cars & Coffee at Autogeek



We used his sweet 1966 Orange Nova Race Car for a demo on how to remove swirls.

Part of the deal for letting me use his car was to invite him back to buff out the rest of the car as I only fixed a section about 16" square on the passenger side of the hood.

Well next week we're set to go! Here's the car...


Thom's 1966 Nova Race Car

1966_Orange_Nova_001.jpg




:buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing: :buffing:
 
Simple, test spott and show em', takes the over explaining out of it!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
 
To the OP...

I hope some of the info I posted will help you despite the way the thread went off-topic....


Showtime said:
By this, I mean, how do you tell them that their paint is in really bad shape but in order to fix it, its going to cost a couple hundred dollars or more?
Click to expand...


You start by evaluating the person. Find out if having a nicer looking finish is even important to them. If it is then explain what it takes to undo the damage and just as important explain to them that after you undo the damage that moving forward the car must be washed and dried carefully of the damage will just come back.

This means they must take ownership of washing their own car and offer to share some tips on how to do it carefully. It also means they cannot take to any type of automatic car wash.

If this is a no-go for them then they really are not a good candidate for removing the swirls and that's the point of doing production detailing. You don't promise to remove all the swirls. Promise to clean up the paint and make it look better and make it look shiny. Under promise and over deliver.

As for the money part, one thing I always tell people is that the job cannot be done faster simply by moving the buffer faster. When removing swirls, and you experienced detailers all know this, you move the buffer slowly over the surface and only tackle small sections at a time.

This is why a quality job takes more time.


Hope that helps...

:)
 
Klasse Act said:
Simple, test spott and show em', takes the over explaining out of it!

Sent from my SPH-M930 using AG Online
Click to expand...

What about the jerk customer who says:

"Hey, I didn't want that done !!! Now my swirled up paint doesn't match !!! Fix it or I'll sue you !!!"
 
This is a superb post, even with some interesting counterpoints to discuss and debate. Differing approaches to the business owner/client relationship is always a tough discussion but AG members can do it without too much drama and always return to the "professional" perspective. Not only is this a wonderful technical exchange but is also a very good business philosophy discussion. There are many different views and i remain open to all of them. I might not agree with some but that's ok...they get me to think broader sometimes.

With regard to client "education", i have always simply pursued what that particular customer wants done. While i understand how us AG'ers know so much more about what would get that paint to look the best it can be, i read the client as accurately as i can and then deliver what they want. I have dropped my approach i had some years ago of going way above what they wanted.

Having said that, every once in a while a customer comes along that knows a little more than most or simply yearns to understand more of the science of what we can do. Those clients are treated differently with regard to education and i will exhaust everything i know to teach them many of the sound, tried and true methods i have picked up here. That knowledge plus my experience works...on a willing customer...to sell them what they want...a mirror like finish and the knowledge of how to avoid destroying it. Whether they return to let me maintain it or try to maintain it themselves is up to them. But they know what it takes to get it to that condition and then how to maintain it.

Again, i am not that aggressive at educating someone who isn't willing to learn it but i will bend over backwards with a willing customer. And with the willing customers i attempt to negotiate a test spot but only after a pretty good feel they will most likely want that done to the entire vehicle. The customer willingly agrees to it and it displays my skill at exactly proving my techniques. The walk supports the talk!
 
Flash Gordon said:
What about the jerk customer who says:
Click to expand...

First, that's your job to become good at evaluating people.

Second, that's a hypothetical that is from my experienced in this trade the exception, not the rule.

But here's the fix Flash... for you... don't do it.

For most people, unless you really know what you're doing and you're willing to take the risk that it's possible you might have to do a detail for free, don't do it.

My VIF form actually states don't touch anyone's car until they have signed the VIF form.




:dunno:
 
Puckman said:
This is a superb post, even with some interesting counterpoints to discuss and debate. Differing approaches to the business owner/client relationship is always a tough discussion but AG members can do it without too much drama and always return to the "professional" perspective. Not only is this a wonderful technical exchange but is also a very good business philosophy discussion. There are many different views and i remain open to all of them. I might not agree with some but that's ok...they get me to think broader sometimes.

With regard to client "education", i have always simply pursued what that particular customer wants done. While i understand how us AG'ers know so much more about what would get that paint to look the best it can be, i read the client as accurately as i can and then deliver what they want. I have dropped my approach i had some years ago of going way above what they wanted.

Having said that, every once in a while a customer comes along that knows a little more than most or simply yearns to understand more of the science of what we can do. Those clients are treated differently with regard to education and i will exhaust everything i know to teach them many of the sound, tried and true methods i have picked up here. That knowledge plus my experience works...on a willing customer...to sell them what they want...a mirror like finish and the knowledge of how to avoid destroying it. Whether they return to let me maintain it or try to maintain it themselves is up to them. But they know what it takes to get it to that condition and then how to maintain it.

Again, i am not that aggressive at educating someone who isn't willing to learn it but i will bend over backwards with a willing customer.
Click to expand...


Great post...


:dblthumb2:
 
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