How Much Does Wax "Really" Do For Perfect Paint?

[Junkman2008]

The Junkman style "all wax is the same" crowd always seems to think the "conflict" lies in some believing wax will make your bad paint look great. If you put any wax on crappy paint - you just have waxed crappy paint. I don't think anyone who has been on a detailing forum > 5 minutes believes wax is the solution for bad paint. I don't really think anyone believes a certain wax will make bad paint look good - no more than makeup will make an ugly chick look good.

If the paint is perfect - you can see differences in waxes. There are also durability differences, application differences, and different hydrophobic properties.

I think the notion of "all wax is the same" was conjured up by those too cheap (or too broke) to buy nicer waxes. Yes, there are good cheap waxes - there are also good expensive ones as well.

Make a video and PROVE it. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm dying to see your production.

 

[swanicyouth]

Make a video and PROVE it. Put your money where your mouth is. I'm dying to see your production.

Kind of funny. I can't make a video proving any specific wax makes a difference no more than I can make a video that different shampoos, rinseless washes, QDs, or similar grade clays make a difference. But, we all know they can. You know that.

Like those other products - most "work" fairly well if you use them right. That doesn't mean some clays mar less than others, some rinseless washes wipe cleaner than others, some QDs streak less than others, and some shampoos cleane/rinse better than others.

Although these things are quite hard to document - most accept them as true. You could consider the differences subjective - but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It has been documented though that certain waxes can hide some swirls and other color charged waxes can tint the color of the clear coat after layering.

No, nice/glossy defect free paint doesn't come from wax - but that isn't the discussion here.

If you really want to see a difference - wax half a car with a "matte" or frozen paint or wrap. Then you will see wax does add some gloss.

 

[Junkman2008]

Kind of funny. I can't make a video proving any specific wax makes a difference no more than I can make a video that different shampoos, rinseless washes, QDs, or similar grade clays make a difference. But, we all know they can. You know that.

Like those other products - most "work" fairly well if you use them right. That doesn't mean some clays mar less than others, some rinseless washes wipe cleaner than others, some QDs streak less than others, and some shampoos cleane/rinse better than others.

Although these things are quite hard to document - most accept them as true. You could consider the differences subjective - but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It has been documented though that certain waxes can hide some swirls and other color charged waxes can tint the color of the clear coat after layering.

No, nice/glossy defect free paint doesn't come from wax - but that isn't the discussion here.

If you really want to see a difference - wax half a car with a "matte" or frozen paint or wrap. Then you will see wax does add some gloss.

So basically, in all that spill you are saying that when people look at a waxed car, they can't tell who's wax was used, what type of wax was used or how much any given wax cost by just looking at the paint.

I AGREE, which is why the only reason I use wax is to protect my paint. I'm NOT going for any type of LOOK, I am strickly going for protection. ALL of my look comes from the polishing that I do. That where I perfect my shine and get my depth, as I have thoroughly shown in this video.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XGwQDVbOgo]Guess The Wax... - YouTube[/video]

This is exactly why I don't fall for all of the wax hype.

 

[swanicyouth]

JM, let me give you an analogy...When you look at a chick that looks good; can you tell what gym she goes to, what kind of makeup she uses, and who does her nails?

Prolly not...but you know good when you see it....

 

[expdetailing]

I know one thing's for sure--put some BFWD AFPP or 4Star UPP on your paint and you will tell a difference in looks! That's for dam% sure!

 

[expdetailing]

expdetailing,
Last time I used 4Star UPP I could NOT tell a difference. So, I don't think you know what your talking about. You see, some of those people, we'll call'em,"wishful thinkers," just "think" they can see a difference, when in fact---they can't. I know, it is sad. However, scientists are developing a device that can "see" into the brain, to "see,"by measuring brainwave nano-particles if there's an actual difference in the appearance of the paint after a sealant has been applied.

 

[Junkman2008]

JM, let me give you an analogy...When you look at a chick that looks good; can you tell what gym she goes to, what kind of makeup she uses, and who does her nails?

Prolly not...but you know good when you see it....

Not a good analogy at all because if she doesn't go to a gym, removes her fake nails, shoes and makeup and still looks killer, I'm going to realize that the secret to beauty has nothing to do with nails, shoes, makeup and excercise... OR WAX.

... You see, some of those people, we'll call'em,"wishful thinkers," just "think" they can see a difference, when in fact---they can't.

What HE said. Those same people will buy a product like Enzyte and swear up and down that they have grown larger in the lower extremities, when that company was sued for being a fraud.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYuBDIWpvT4]Funny Smiling Bob Commercial - Male Enhancement Reviews - YouTube[/video]

 

[CM8 6MT]

You see, some of those people, we'll call'em,"wishful thinkers," just "think" they can see a difference, when in fact---they can't.

I couldnt agree more. I also respect Junkman's opinion. I may not agree with
everthing he says, but he is a professional detailer and backs up what he says, unlike most.


Its 2014, people are still arguing about car wax? No one on this forum, or any forum for that matter would be able to tell an expensive boutique wax from a cheap OTC wax from a local store, on a perfectly polished panel.


Thats not to take away from people who enjoy boutique car waxes. They offer exotic scents, and a feeling of "prestige". Boutique car waxes are the choice for enthusiast level detailers, and weekend warriors who simply enjoy using a really nice car wax. Will it look that much better than joe schmoes store bought car wax? No. Sorry to burst some of you members dreams, but thats all your paying for is some fruity scent and a name brand when it comes to "high end" carnauba car waxes.


IMO car wax is outdated. Sealants are the way to go in terms of both looks and protection. Although as a professional detailer, neither car wax nor sealants offer the level of protection my clients are looking for. This is why I rely on coatings when working with higher end cars like this Acura NSX thats getting a layer of Gtechniq C1 tomorrow morning.

This clients car has no wax/sealant/coating yet, and it still looks great after FG400/HD Polish. I could put Turtle Wax on it, and it would still look amazing. :dblthumb2:

 

[EVOlved]

I could put Turtle Wax on it, and it would still look amazing. :dblthumb2:

I don't disagree, but I think the real question at hand is do you really believe that the LSP you apply has no change in the way light refracts off the surface of that freshly polished paint??

If not then apply the C1 to say the front quarter panel and not the door on the same side until after you do the rest of the car and see if your eyes can notice any difference between the two panels.. I believe this is what Swanic is saying even if the difference is say only 4% there is some difference to it.

 

[af90]

I don't disagree, but I think the real question at hand is do you really believe that the LSP you apply has no change in the way light refracts off the surface of that freshly polished paint??

If not then apply the C1 to say the front quarter panel and not the door on the same side until after you do the rest of the car and see if your eyes can notice any difference between the two panels.. I believe this is what Swanic is saying even if the difference is say only 4% there is some difference to it.

Here is a study that was actually done on glossiness of different LSP's over 8 weeks using a glossmeter.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

IMO car wax is outdated. Sealants are the way to go in terms of both looks and protection.

I get asked all the time why I choose waxes over sealants and coatings for a lot of my projects, in fact this topic came up last night as we were waxing the Alfa Romeo.

I 100% agree a quality coating will easily outlast and thus out protect a car wax or a synthetic paint sealant. Heck I keep a paint coating on my wife's car and as I've shown numerous times on this forum a simple wash and it looks like I just waxed it.


I don't always choose the LSP based on what it can do but on what the car owner can do.

I buff out a lot of muscle cars, classics and streetrods because these are they types of cars I like to work on. I do a few exotics and new cars too.

So when I pick an LSP... sometimes the choice is based upon what I know or at least think the OWNER can and will use to maintain my work. And because often times the age of the guy that owns the classic, muscle car or streetrod is older, instead of trying to teach an old dog new tricks, like how to chemically strip the paint i order to apply a coating... I use something "they" understand and that is a traditional paste wax.

And because these types of cars are often times NOT daily drivers, longevity just simply isn't an issue.


Detailer's that regularly maintain cars they've already detailed can easily apply anything and then maintain it in the future. And as long as you're charging correctly, I think coatings are the way to go.

This is why I rely on coatings when working with higher end cars like this Acura NSX thats getting a layer of GTechniq C1 tomorrow morning.

This clients car has no wax/sealant/coating yet, and it still looks great after FG400/HD Polish.

You're right... the paint on that NSC looks great! Love those cars!

I could put Turtle Wax on it, and it would still look amazing. :dblthumb2:

That's true too... the magic as it relates to 98% of the results is created in the prep work. I stil would never us TW on something that I spent all day polishing.

I put the GTechniq C1 Crystal Lacquer on a Yellow Scion at least 2 years ago and it still looks great today. The key is she NEVER takes it to any type of car wash except a touchless or washes it herself by hand.

 

[Junkman2008]

... That's true too... the magic as it relates to 98% of the results is created in the prep work.

Man, I couldn't agree more. And for 99% of the folks out there, those results alone are going to be enough. The question is, do you want to spend hours trying to achieve that 1% more out of your shine or do you want to DRIVE your car? I have yet to have anyone walk up to me and say, "Man, that's some great looking wax!"

I bought mine to drive and although it's clean, I drive the hell out of it. With 150,000 on the odometer, people who don't know still ask me if it's new. It's 13 years old!

 

[CM8 6MT]

I stil would never us TW on something that I spent all day polishing.

I put the GTechniq C1 Crystal Lacquer on a Yellow Scion at least 2 years ago and it still looks great today. The key is she NEVER takes it to any type of car wash except a touchless or washes it herself by hand.

Totally agree with you Mike. Every product has its place, every now and then I like to open a tub of old school M26 and enjoy waxing my personal car just to enjoy my time. Though when you do this for pay, and dealing with other peoples cars and expectations, I look for the latest and most up to date products.

 

[hernandez.art13]

Is it weird that when I read your post Mike, or even. Junkman's post.

As I am reading what you guys posted. I am hearing your voices in my head lol.

For example, I read your post Mike and didn't think to much of it because I am always reading your posts. But then Junkman replied to your post and I read that.

Then the sound in my head changed and it sounded like Junkman's voice lol.

 

[Kamakaz1961]

Excellent Post and great comments from Mike Phillips and the Junkman!! Both your comments are 100% correct. Technique trumps product anytime (as the Junkman or AJ would say). Mike is correct about teaching an old dog new tricks on which way to go with product.

I like to put on a sealant and then a wax because I enjoy doing it. I will wax my car at least 1 time a month regardless if it needs it or not. Henceforth, no need for me to use a coating. Additionally, I am bald old dog!! But chicks still dig me....LOL!

Either way the bottom line is this: When you have the 2 most respected detailers (IMO) in the same thread...it means alot!

 

[swanicyouth]

I don't know why I'm still sticking my hand down this rabbit hole - because I know you can't win these discussions online. However, people are bringing up numerous points like: the prep/polishing is the most important step, waxes are outdated, people use wax because it's easier to use than coatings, I'd rather drive my car than wax it, and their car looks great with no wax on it. All that may be true...

But, none of this is really relevant or answers the question if wax/LSP can add a certain gloss/glow (call it what you will) or affect the appearance of paint to a panel that is perfectly polished or not. Yes, we all know the difference is subtle and wax will not fix bad paint. Yes, we all know polishing will give you most of your results. But - this is not the question.

I have no pictures of how wax can alter the appearance of paint. Quite honestly - I thought it was sort of obvious and never tried to capture any. But, for those that follow Dodo Juice's forum, there have been several pictures of waxed vrs unwaxed areas of the same panel.

I'm stealing these pictures from them, I'm sorry for that...

This one was enhanced a bit to make the differences less subtle for the camera, the looks are darker based on how many layers were applied:

If people still can't see the differences between the waxed and unwaxed areas after seeing those photos - you will just have to keep believing what you will.

 

[Bunky]

Here is a study that was actually done on glossiness of different LSP's over 8 weeks using a glossmeter.

I consider the flaw here in any gloss measurement discussions that one is associating a single optical measurement (light reflected a specific angle off a surface) to quantify what the human eye sees. Plus, a camera does not have the dynamic range of the human eye. I just do not think "gloss" is what people see.

I just accept if you put a film (such as dried was or sealant) on paint (perfect or otherwise) it can alter the appearance. Films absorb/reflect light differently than the base surface. It is up to people to decide if they like the change.

 

[af90]

That's a very interesting post that I have seen before. Now granted over time the intensity of the color change will fade, it would be interesting to see over the course of a few weeks how the hood looked.

 

[expdetailing]

How much UV protection are we getting from our waxes?

 

[Guessless]

I don't know why I'm still sticking my hand down this rabbit hole - because I know you can't win these discussions online.....

Swanicyouth,
Hmmmm, who said " a picture is worth a thousand words...." ?
I just wish Purple Haze, Blue velvet, and better yet Blackfire Black ice were there too to show an even more pronounced difference, but hey the picture suffices.
Thanks.rops: