How often can a car be buffed before you run out of clear?

There ya go Tom! The more the customer pays, hopefully they are getting a professional approach and paying someone here who understands that concept! Great question and good discussion.

Then there's the whole thing about not chasing some RIDS and recognizing the surrender point just by looking at it...
 
My plan for my DD's is to do a light polish once a year with something like Meguiars Ultimate Polish or Wolfgang Total Swirl Remover and a Lake Country flat white pad and leave it at that. No chasing scratches.

Hopefully that's good enough to keep a shine and not so much to accelerate paint failure too much.


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Did some checking around trying to get a visual on just how thin a mil is.

We covered this in the class and it's all my how-to books. And probably one of my most enlightening articles is this one....


Clearcoats are thin by Mike Phillips


The majority of cars being manufactured today and starting since the 1980's use what's called a basecoat/clearcoat paint system. With this system, a clear layer of paint is sprayed over the top of the basecoat which is also the color coat or the layer of paint that has pigment in it. If the car has a metallic finish then the metallic flakes are also in the basecoat.

The basecoat doesn't offer any gloss or shine and in fact it's dull or matte looking after it's sprayed. The basecoat gets it's gloss, shine, depth and reflectivity by the spraying of the clearcoat layer of paint over the top of it. This is why if a person removes too much clearcoat when buffing and they expose the basecoat it will appear to be a dull round or oval spot on a body panel. The part of the paint system that adds beauty has been removed revealing the dull or matte basecoat layer of paint.



Just how thin is the clear layer of paint on a factory paint job?

The factory clearcoat on a new or modern car measures approximately 2 mils thin.

The average post-it not is around 3 mils thin.

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What does this mean?

This means the factory clearcoat on a new or modern car is thinner than a post-it note.

The next time you have a post-it note in front of you, feel a single post-it note between your fingers. Like this...

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This experience will drive home the point as to just how thin the clear layer of paint is on modern car with a factory paint job.

It should also drive home the importance of using the least aggressive pad, product and even tools to get the job done.

When I say, get the job done, the context of this usually means someone is buffing out a car to remove paint defects like swirls, scratches, water spots and oxidation to make the paint and thus the car look better.

By using the least aggressive products you "get the job done" while leaving the most paint on the car to it will last over the mechanical service life of the car.

If you're working on your own cars and you're reading this you're already ahead of the game by reading the AGO forum and probably being a member so you can ask questions and get help.

If you're working on customer's cars take a professional approach as a service to your customers.


If you're reading this and you're going to do the work yourself or hire a detailer then do some research and make sure you hire a detailer that knows this type of stuff because the factory clearcoat on your car is thin.




Now, I do appreciate just how thin, thin the clear is now!


How in the world can anyone cut and polish something thinner than 2 mils?

Tom


Preaching to the choir.

Once a person gets the knowledge you have and everyone reading this thread, then the obvious question is?

Why don't car manufacturers' spray more clear on their vehicles?

A: It costs more money
B: The masses i.e. car buyers don't know anything about all this stuff we're talking about.
C: They don't care.



Here's another article I wrote that ties in....

Detailers that hang out on discussion forums know more than detailers that don't...


:)
 
If you know what you're doing, compounding doesn't remove much clear. Yes, clear is thin, but you can compound a lot more than people think, IF you know what you're doing.


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...

Preaching to the choir.

Once a person gets the knowledge you have and everyone reading this thread, then the obvious question is?

Why don't car manufacturers' spray more clear on their vehicles?

A: It costs more money
B: The masses i.e. car buyers don't know anything about all this stuff we're talking about.
C: They don't care.

...

Another reason that manufacturers don't load up on the clear coat that I have never seen mentioned on this forum is this...

Thicker is not necessarily better. In fact, in many environments it is quite the contrary. Thicker instances of the clear coats used are more prone to chipping, cracking, loss of adhesion, or other failure modes when subjected to certain environmental conditions.

Automobiles are subjected to many environments. A vehicle in the upper Midwest is subjected to environmental conditions much different than a vehicle in the Southwest. Whereas a vehicle in Ohio is subjected to snow, ice, salt or other road chemicals, temperature extremes - hot and cold, excessive humidity levels, moderate UV levels, etc., now take that same vehicle to Southern California and of those conditions identified, the UV levels (which are much higher) are the primary concern and the remaining conditions are much less relevant.

So the vehicle manufacturer, with input from the paint manufacturer(s), must engineer the vehicle with consideration of all of the expected environments that it will encounter. Compromise (for the greater good) is part of that engineering effort and paint thickness is one of those compromises.
 
The blue Honda hood that I perform my tests with has seen well over 100 polishes with M205 on a black Buff and Shine finishing pad with the DA polisher. This paint has been soft and sticky from the very start, so a rotary will skip all across the paint and leave marring even with the lightest polish and pad combo. I do not have before readings from the front test sections, however the areas of the car that I have not used abrasives average around 120 microns. The hood is now averaging around the 96 micron range. As the others have said, how much you can polish is going to depend on how hard or soft your paint is, how thick it is, and how aggressive you are with your pad and polish combo. But you should be able to perform a significant amount of light maintenance polishes with a finishing polish over the lifetime of the car without worrying much about it.
 
Another reason that manufacturers don't load up on the clear coat that I have never seen mentioned on this forum is this...

Thicker is not necessarily better.


Agreed. There must be balance.


But I do believe just like a lot of the custom cars I work on that have thicker clears than factory clears, that a "little" extra clear could be added at the OEM level and still remain "balanced".

I know all the guys that have posted here how they've burned through their car's clearcoat feel the same way.


:cheers:
 
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