I am questionning my technique or my patience

Calendyr

Calendyr

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Hey guys,

I just spent the day working on a BMW 323i. I did a paint correction using Meguiar's DA Polisher (V2), orange buff&shine pad, M105.

After doing 8 slow passes with M105, I polished using same DA, Buff&shine green pad and M205.

After all that there were still swirls left. I have yet to manage to correct paint where no swirls are left.

So what do you think is my problem? Do I expect too much from DA correction? Should I make 16 passes to correct paint? All the guides I read say 6-8 passes. I have tried in the past to use a Microfiber Cutting pad instead of an orange pad but the result was the same, a few swirls left.

Would really like to figure this out, it really bugs me.
 
Slow down your arm speed (1" per second) and 15lbs. of pressure.
 
what he said, also what speed do you set your DA at while correcting?
 
Rsurfer said:
Slow down your arm speed (1" per second) and 15lbs. of pressure.
Click to expand...

:iagree: And shrink down your work area too. Try doing a 10"x 10" area. Once you start getting the correction you are looking for, try increasing the size of your work area until you find the perfect size area for your technique.
 
If you haven't done so watch the video all about M105, M101 and M100

Mike Phillips Jason Rose and Mike Pennington do a great job of explaining each application and how each should be used.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugl35QexkkQ]Meguiar's M105, M101 and M100 Compounds Round Table Discussion at Autogeek with Mike Phillips - YouTube[/video]
 
Are you priming the pad correctly?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AG Online
 
It sounds like your not being consistent with arm speed and pressure. You should be between 9 and 15 pounds of pressure ideally. Put a pad on your polisher and grab a scale and push down until it hits 15 so you have a feel for it.
Speed should be no more then 5 on the DA. Practice on one spot on the car. One area, do 12x12. Get that right then do the rest of the car.
If you can get a hood from a car in the junk yard. Try and get it off of the car so you have make/model/year and maybe the paint code. Practice on it.
 
Ok from what you are saying it seems speed might be the issue. 1 inch per second seems very slow compared to all the videos I have watched. But I will try it. From doing quick math you are talking about taking 12 minutes to do a 2 foot by 2 foot area right? Will product last that long? Seems to me M105 flashes after about 2 minutes.
 
I did my dads 2011 white corolla yesterday and had the same problem. I couldn't get it to swirl free gloss on the trunk when I did a test panel.

I first tried Menz SF1500 with a yellow B&S pad with my GG polisher on speed 5 with 4 passes. Then I stepped up to Menz PG1000 with an orange pad with 6 passes and still didn't get that perfect swirl free shine.

I
 
Calendyr said:
Ok from what you are saying it seems speed might be the issue. 1 inch per second seems very slow compared to all the videos I have watched. But I will try it. From doing quick math you are talking about taking 12 minutes to do a 2 foot by 2 foot area right? Will product last that long? Seems to me M105 flashes after about 2 minutes.
Click to expand...
Try working a smaller area.
 
In addition, take it one step at a time and perfect the technique needed for that car on a test spot before doing the rest of the car. From your post, it sounds like you did the whole car.

Compound, then inspect. If you are getting the results you're looking for, then move on to your next pad/product on that same test spot. Otherwise, consider another application of product, a different pad, a different combination, or a different strategy altogether, such as wet sanding (which I'm not recommending you do, it's just an example of a different strategy).

Hopefully this helps. Hang in there!!
 
Just to give you an idea of what speed I work at... this is an Alpine White BMW 335i that I am working on. Area: approx. 2'x2' section of the trunk. Machine: Rupes LHR21ES with 5.5" LC Flat Pads Product: Menzerna PF2500

... if I need more or less correction I may decrease arm speed, decrease working area, and of course change pads/products.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzWOFJH2ZEA]Paint Correction BMW 335i - Rupes LHR21ES - Menzerna PF2500 - YouTube[/video]
 
I went through the same thing a few years ago. You just have to get a feel for making the polisher do it's work. 1" per second is very slow, It's more like 1-2" a second. Also, you have to put weight and force down on the polisher if your using a regular DA. Using too much or too little polish can be another issue.

My guess is, your working in the heat or a warm area, and the product is drying up quick. so you are adding more product, and the pads are gumming up. Once they gum up, they wont cut worth anything.

People always recommend M105, but then others (seems many) have problems with it drying out and dusting quickly - likely amplified if it's very hot where you are at. I can't comment on that, because I don't use that product. I've found Wolfgang TSR and Optimum Polishes/Compound work well on BMW paint for me with LC pads.

I choose those products because they are very user friendly. The "M" series Meg's polishes are part of their "Professional Line" or "Mirror Glaze" line. They are designed for professionals with experience in using these type of machines. They may not be the best for learning with or working in hot weather/area with. I'm not a professional who needs products that cut very fast, so I chose products that may have a little more work time and be a little more forgiving.

Yes, you should be able to get almost the worse defects out, even with a DA. If you doubt it, I've buffed through clear coat before. It's all in how aggressive your products and technique are. Also, expect it to take a long time, a very long time to remove defects with a "regular DA". To get an idea how long, watch Junkman's polishing series on YouTube and get his take on it.

I have no idea how guys wash, clean wheels, clean / protect interior and carpets, clay, do a 2 step polish, dress trim and tires, and apply LSP to a car in 6-8 hours with a regular DA. I just have no idea. That's 2 or 3 long days for me to do that work so it's right. Using a different machine and MF pads may speed up the process - which is important if your doing it for cash. I hope you are not trying to learn how to do this on a customer's car.

Good Luck.
 
Im guessing you are using too much product. Also go until the product flashes not till you do 8 passes.
 
I am using pretty much the same speed you are Zmcgovern45. The main difference between your technique and mine is that I do a 50% overlap with the previous pass on every pass.

I tap the pad all over the work area, then use speed 1 to spread it around. Then I go to speed 5 to work. My DA is capable of speed 6 but I read somewhere that it was a bad idea to use speed 6, it can damage the pads. So I never use it.

I work outside. Yesterday was a cool day. Temperature was around 22 celcius, so I doubt it's a heat thing. I worked in shaded area so no direct sunlight on the spot I am working.

For amount of products, I use 4 dime size peas on a 5.5 inch pad. Yesterday I started using a 1 squirt of water after about 3 section passes to re-liquify the product. Otherwise by that time it is usually too dry to keep working. Seems to work well, I can get an other 3 or 4 passes before it dries again.

So to resume, my speed is good, my section size is good. I will check my pressure next time I work on a car. 15 pounds of pressure is not much at all and I am almost certain I use about that but I will check nonetheless.

So that brings me back to my original question... am I expecting too much out of a DA? Do you guys have deep swirls left after that complete section work? As I said it doesn't matter what combo I use, even if I go to my most agressive combo (M105+MF Cutting pad) I still have defects left. All the light swirls are gone, all the medium swirls are gone but I have RIDS and Random Swirls left and it drives me crazy.
 
4 dime size drops seems like too much product to me... I use 2, and an occasional spritz of QD spray on the face of the pad to keep it moist.
 
Speed 6 won't damage your pads. Heat will damage your pads.

As long as you monitor the heat of your pads during your correction & polishing steps you will be fine. The easiest way to tell that your pad is too hot is the top of your polisher will be hotter than normal. This is because heat is transferred up from the paint>pad>backing plate>spindle>polisher>casing. The polisher should never be too hot to hold comfortably during use.
 
One way to get good technique is to mark off an area with blue painters tape in a 12x12 area. Nextbtakeva sharpie and put 1" hash marks on a verticle and horizontal line. As you move for every inch you count 1 second. Pressure should no be a big concern until you get the timing. The pressure should be around 10 lbs. once you do a couple of areas your arm speed will be what will do the correction. You need muscle memory.

Ed

:autowash: :buffing:
 
Leaving rids behind after polishing out swirls is fairly common. When the car is swirled its hard to differentiate the depth of all the scratches. That gets revealed as you Polish. You have to decide if the rids are worth going after or if taking away more paint it too risky. Also you might be expecting too much from 105. Try following with a lighter polish, like 205 on a white pad and see if it cleans up the marring.

Sent from my Transformer using AG Online
 
for me, i like Menz polishes on BMW ceramic clears...

also when you say 6 section passes...make sure your meeting the definition of a section pass...

one pass back and forth in your 12 x 12 area PLUS one pass up and down in that same 12 x 12 area is ONE section pass...
 
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