In regards to least aggressive polishes/pads first...

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JetBlackBMW

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I used the Flex 3401 with a LC green very light cutting pad and Wolf Gang Total Swirl Remover on soft jet black clear coat. I was not able to remove all swirls and scratches so I need something stronger.

I just ordered LC orange pads and both Meguiars Ultimate Compound and Meguiars 105.

Keeping in mind that I need something stronger than what I mentioned above for BMW soft jet black paint...my question is: should I try the LC orange pad with the Wolf Gang Total Swirl Remover next or should I try the Meguiars UC with same LC green very light cutting pad next? Im not sure which would be the least aggressive next step - a stonger polish with the same pad or the same polish with a stronger pad...Feed back please
 
It's very tough to say what works on what paint. The best suggestion is to do test areas with different product/pad combos untill you find your level of correction desired. But if it were me, I would try the pad first in this instance Unless there are a good amount of swirls remaining, then ai'd up the product.
 
UC compound is stronger than 105
so don't use the UC on the soft paint
just my 2 c..
 
I thought I read that 105 was stronger than UC. Thanks for letting me know, I will use 105 first.
 
Dr Oldz said:
It's very tough to say what works on what paint. The best suggestion is to do test areas with different product/pad combos untill you find your level of correction desired. But if it were me, I would try the pad first in this instance Unless there are a good amount of swirls remaining, then ai'd up the product.
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i second that-try a different pad before a different product
 
If it is soft your going to need to do at least a 2 step. Use the TSR with a white pad first, then orange. After that you will need to use a gray pad with a finishing polish.
 
loudog2 said:
If it is soft your going to need to do at least a 2 step. Use the TSR with a white pad first, then orange. After that you will need to use a gray pad with a finishing polish.
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does that work good of soft paint white then orange?
 
I mean if the white doesn't work then try orange. I just did my car with soft black paint. I had to use power finish on a white pad to get the bigger stuff out, but that combo left marring. So I followed up with 106FA on a gray pad and all was good.
 
I thought I read that 105 was stronger than UC. Thanks for letting me know, I will use 105 first.
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You are correct. M105 is way more aggressive than Ultimate Compound. UC is a consumer product. UC is still rated as aggressive so if you have it you can try it, but if it doesn't remove the defects then M105 will.

The LC green is their lightest polishing pad. Next is white and then orange. Just take it a step at a time by changing the pad on a couple of test spots. If your swirls are deep you'll probably end up needing M105 on orange, but there is no need to rush it. Common sense and experience says that you'll probably need M105/Orange, but you don't learn anything if you don't step through the full range of pads/products to find the least aggressive combo.

Don't get too carried away about soft paint. Not all BM blacks are soft, so don't just assume yours is. If the Wolfgang polish is a swirl remover and it is not removing the swirls then it would suggest that your paint is not so soft. I presume you are using a DA, what speed (5-6) and pressure (enough to just allow the pad to spin, which is a lot - the pad will be really compressed)

Get rid of the swirls and defects first and then refine your process. The best polishes for BMs are Menzerna, but if you already have Megs, go with M105 followed by M205 (which is way less agressive than UC) after the defects are removed on a white or green pad and that will probably do it for you. Finally get some Menzerna P085RD to finish up with on a black or blue pad.

I can't comment on Wolfgang because I've never used it.
 
mbkite said:
UC compound is stronger than 105
so don't use the UC on the soft paint
just my 2 c..
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I just looked at a chart from Meguiars saying that 105 has more cut than UC. What has been your experience with this? You mentioned not to use UC on soft paint...did it not workout for you and you like 105 better on soft paint? Please let me know - thanks
 
If it's Jet Black then it's pretty much going to be soft. The painting process is different from other BMW paint colors. The Jet Black BMW paint is very popular for this.
 
gmck said:
You are correct. M105 is way more aggressive than Ultimate Compound. UC is a consumer product. UC is still rated as aggressive so if you have it you can try it, but if it doesn't remove the defects then M105 will.

The LC green is their lightest polishing pad. Next is white and then orange. Just take it a step at a time by changing the pad on a couple of test spots. If your swirls are deep you'll probably end up needing M105 on orange, but there is no need to rush it. Common sense and experience says that you'll probably need M105/Orange, but you don't learn anything if you don't step through the full range of pads/products to find the least aggressive combo.

Don't get too carried away about soft paint. Not all BM blacks are soft, so don't just assume yours is. If the Wolfgang polish is a swirl remover and it is not removing the swirls then it would suggest that your paint is not so soft. I presume you are using a DA, what speed (5-6) and pressure (enough to just allow the pad to spin, which is a lot - the pad will be really compressed)

Get rid of the swirls and defects first and then refine your process. The best polishes for BMs are Menzerna, but if you already have Megs, go with M105 followed by M205 (which is way less agressive than UC) after the defects are removed on a white or green pad and that will probably do it for you. Finally get some Menzerna P085RD to finish up with on a black or blue pad.

I can't comment on Wolfgang because I've never used it.
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thanks man - according to reviews on autogeek - Wolf Gang is made by Menzerna and it is supposed to be more user friendly than Menzerna so thats why I went with it. The total swirl remover is similar to Menzerna SIP/IP and the Wolf Ganf Finishing Glaze is similar to 106f. I used the LC green corse pad (which is in between the orange and white) with the total swirl remover and need something stronger so thats why I ordered the Meguiars UC and 105. I used the Flex 3401 on speed 6 and used firm pressure....maybe I need to work it in longer??? I did about 12 passes and it looked like it was getting dry so should I have kept going??

I did go with a Menzerna for the final polishing....I got the Menzerna FP II to finish on blue pad
 
maximus20895 said:
If it's Jet Black then it's pretty much going to be soft. The painting process is different from other BMW paint colors. The Jet Black BMW paint is very popular for this.
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What would you recommend that I try next? I used the Wolf Gang total swirl remover (which is equivalent to Menzerna SIP/IP in power) with a LC green coarse pad (in between the orange and white pad) on the Flex 3401 on speed 6 with firm pressure and I still have a few swirls and scratches??? thanks
 
I would try UC on an orange pad or maybe even 105 on an orange pad. if that doesn't work I would get some surbuf pads and use 105 with it. These must be some really bad swirls.
 
If seems like you have plenty of correction. Your problem could be with technique. Things like size of work area, arm speed and pressure can have a huge influence on the the results

Tips and Techniques
 
First try swapping pads with the same product, then move up from there, and cut down your passes to 4-5 with pretty slow arm speed
 
dougaross said:
If seems like you have plenty of correction. Your problem could be with technique. Things like size of work area, arm speed and pressure can have a huge influence on the the results

Tips and Techniques
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Perfections said:
First try swapping pads with the same product, then move up from there, and cut down your passes to 4-5 with pretty slow arm speed
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I may have been moving too fast...I will try a slower arm speed next time. I guess its okay to go over the same spot again with the same polish and pad?

One other thing I thought of is that there was not enough polish on the pad as I only did that one test spot and the pad might not have had enough polish on it...because I made another pass with a somewhat wet pad (had washed it and it was not completely dry) and made another several passes and noticed an improvement from the first try. So for some reason it seemed to work better with a very damp almost wet pad.
 
thanks man - according to reviews on autogeek - Wolf Gang is made by Menzerna and it is supposed to be more user friendly than Menzerna so thats why I went with it.
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I had heard that Wolfgang was meant to similar to Menzerna. Sort of begs the question why – for there is nothing un user friendly about Menz polishes. What was meant to be wrong with Menzerna in the first place? Seems more an American company marketing ploy than anything else. This chart might help you out some, to understand the Menzerna 1 - 5 cut ratings - Menzerna Polishing Compounds Products, menzerna polishes, menzerna car polish, menzerna nano polish, menzerna final polish, menzerna compound,

If SIP (P083Q – not available where I am) and IP (P091C) have failed to remove the swirls then I would guess the next step is M105/Orange as M105 is more aggressive than those two. You could try Power Gloss P0S34A which is their most aggressive, but it will leave a haze, which will have to be removed later. I prefer to use M105 on BMs because M105 will finish down far better than P0S34A. I’m sorry, but I also assumed your green pad was the polishing pad not the compounding pad. What I normally do with BMs is use M105 (orange) followed (after the swirls have been removed) by PO203S (orange or white) and then either P0106FF white or green (polishing) and/or 85RD using the green, black or blue pads. I’m a little loath to say it here, but I think there is far too much misinformation flying around about so called super soft black BM paint.

I’ve not used your Flex, but I would assume at 6 and firm pressure, it would virtually rip through anything as compared to the more gutless DAs going around. The only other thing I can suggest is very slow arm speed especially if you go with M105. Make sure you fully prime your orange pad (KBM method) when using M105. If you are hammering the one test spot, I’d also suggest a new test spot – say boot lid or bonnet, not a vertical panel. Are the swirls bad washing induced swirls or are they from the “swirlamatic” washing machine? Or are the swirls really scratches and not swirls? Are the defects consistent all over the vehicle or just confined to one area? Do you have any pictures of the defects to post?

Is there any improvement in the area that you have already compounded? What sort of experience have you had with your Flex? Have you successfully eliminated swirls in other vehicles? How large is the area of your test spot? Try reducing it to about 12" x 12".

Do you also have smaller pads available? My apologies for all the questions, but the more feedback we have the more likely we can help you.
 
also make sure you have good lighting-if you got halogen light keep them on the paint when doing your test spot that will help you see the differences with your arm speed and pad
 
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