IS OPC okay to use in place of IPA?

[StuDLei]

Reason I ask is I've been tinkering with some different compounds, polishes and pads the last few days on my black 350z. Just trying some different things out to see what the best and most efficient recipe is, so when I have the time I can knock the whole car out. Surprisingly, I got very good results with 105 on orange CCS followed by 205 on orange CCS. I admit to not yet trying the 205 with white/green/black, but the 205 finished so well on orange I'll probably end up going with that.

Anyways, in reference to my thread title (I talk too much), can I use OPC to check my results? I have applied it after the 205 and my "work" still looked the same. It wasn't until recently that I learned you needed to rid the paint of any oils that might act as fillers with 205. Does OPC do this or do I need IPA or other specific pre-wax cleaner?

I'm a noob that's done probably 20 hrs of reading the last 4-5 nights AT LEAST, so I'm a bit overwhelmed with information overload.

Thanks.

 

[GoldBl4d3]

No. OPC Leaves a residue. IPA dissipates.

 

[Chris Thomas]

It's not a direct replacement. OPC needs to be rinsed. IPA wipedowns are not always effective and may need multiple applications.

 

[StuDLei]

It's not a direct replacement. OPC needs to be rinsed. IPA wipedowns are not always effective and may need multiple applications.

Chris, I know this is an old thread, but I have some more questions relating to the topic. I'm trying to figure out the best way to check my work after polishing and to strip a surface should I ever want to use a coating. I never have up to this point (used a coating), but I want to know!

I've never used IPA, but at this point, I really want nothing to do with it. Most users complain of it being grabby, and that is something that I don't do well with. I have enough of those problems when I ONR, and for the record, I think it's my car, not the ONR. Different paints are just different.

I've been using Eraser to check my work, but the stuff is just so darn expensive and I'm really not sure how great of a job it does. So, I'm wondering, can I use OPC diluted (what ratio should I use if so?) to check my work and strip paint? I know you said it needs to be rinsed. Here's my problem-- I don't like to rinse my car with the hose because it has a tendency to spot FAST. Spot to the point where it requires light polishing to remove. So I'm wondering, can I rinse with ONR? Would a coating adhere effectively after that?

What are the issues if OPC dries? To be honest, I've had it dry on me before without any bad effects. Granted, I always rinsed it or ONRed it quickly afterward, but there were some times where I wasn't quick enough and it dried. Again, nothing bad happened, just wondering what the risks are?

I'm thinking this should suffice (OPC diluted followed by ONR) as I've used that process to clean bugs off my front end. OPC at full strength can require a few "hits" with an ONR soaked sponge, and even then I sometimes wonder if I rinsed it well enough. I suppose it would help if I diluted it for scenarios like this.

Thoughts?

 

[PiPUK]

My 2 cents...

Eraser is fundamentally IPA, water and a lubricant. In my experience, that lubricant can leave a residue. Try over applying, no wiping, and let it dry and you will see what I mean (with IPA, this won't happen unless you dilute with water which contains minerals). It is fine for many waxes and sealants but you do need to take care with the coatings as the coating manufacturers could easily point to that lubricating surfactant if a problem occurs.

IMO, if you want to check your work, you need to make sure you are using something which is 100% volatile. If it contains surfactants, abrasives, lubricants, fragrances (etc) then you probably have some component which will not evaporate away easily. IPA is 100% volatile which is why many like it. Unfortunately it does very little in terms of lubrication (as you have noted). To my mind, the money is on a hydrocarbon solvent which will give you a degree of lubrication (remember that the heavier hydrocarbon solvents are basically lubricants in their own right) whilst, assuming you have a light solvent, maintaining that volatility. In the industry, these products are well known and are called panel wipes. Not only do they lubricate and not leave residues, they are actually far more effective solvents than IPA when it comes to removal of oils, greases, waxes (etc). IPA is great for light oils but it just isn't right once you get to waxes etc. The benefit, however, with IPA is that it can be diluted with water, panel wipes cannot.

 

[poweraid]

lately I've been doing a lot more coatings , eraser is not ideal for wipe down prior to application . I use this , about $12 a gallon

 

[Lowejackson]

Chris, I know this is an old thread, but I have some more questions relating to the topic. I'm trying to figure out the best way to check my work after polishing and to strip a surface should I ever want to use a coating. I never have up to this point (used a coating), but I want to know!.........

I have used IPA diluted with ONR and this seem to work well. Maybe not ideal for some of the very fussy sealants/coatings but not had a problem with normal products. Possible alternative could be to use the Optimum polishes, for cleaning up just use a damp MF cloth

 

[StuDLei]

I have used IPA diluted with ONR and this seem to work well. Maybe not ideal for some of the very fussy sealants/coatings but not had a problem with normal products. Possible alternative could be to use the Optimum polishes, for cleaning up just use a damp MF cloth

I've heard this, but don't really want to be restricted to just Optimum polishes. I love their stuff, in fact it's what has got me into detailing. I've never tried any of their polishes though. Some day.

 

[StuDLei]

My 2 cents...

Eraser is fundamentally IPA, water and a lubricant. In my experience, that lubricant can leave a residue. Try over applying, no wiping, and let it dry and you will see what I mean (with IPA, this won't happen unless you dilute with water which contains minerals). It is fine for many waxes and sealants but you do need to take care with the coatings as the coating manufacturers could easily point to that lubricating surfactant if a problem occurs.

IMO, if you want to check your work, you need to make sure you are using something which is 100% volatile. If it contains surfactants, abrasives, lubricants, fragrances (etc) then you probably have some component which will not evaporate away easily. IPA is 100% volatile which is why many like it. Unfortunately it does very little in terms of lubrication (as you have noted). To my mind, the money is on a hydrocarbon solvent which will give you a degree of lubrication (remember that the heavier hydrocarbon solvents are basically lubricants in their own right) whilst, assuming you have a light solvent, maintaining that volatility. In the industry, these products are well known and are called panel wipes. Not only do they lubricate and not leave residues, they are actually far more effective solvents than IPA when it comes to removal of oils, greases, waxes (etc). IPA is great for light oils but it just isn't right once you get to waxes etc. The benefit, however, with IPA is that it can be diluted with water, panel wipes cannot.

Thanks for the informative post.

So you think I should try panel wipes? I've just recently started to hear about these on the site. I'll check the store and see what they have to offer, hoping they're not too expensive.

 

[BradsDetailing]

I'm going to vent here. I just purchased eraser and realized also that it leaves something behind.

I don't know why they would create a product like this and expect someone to keep it.

 

[PiPUK]

Thanks for the informative post.

So you think I should try panel wipes? I've just recently started to hear about these on the site. I'll check the store and see what they have to offer, hoping they're not too expensive.

Panel wipe is what has been used in the general industry for decades. I am not really sure why IPA has become so popular, other than being dilutable. As posted by another member, panel wipe is generally pretty cheap. It tends to be a mix of solvents which aren't a great deal of use for most applications.

I'm going to vent here. I just purchased eraser and realized also that it leaves something behind.

I don't know why they would create a product like this and expect someone to keep it.

It is an extremely popular product.

My opinion, built largely from the information and myth I have found on detailing forums, is that most detailers are ill informed when it comes to surfactants and residues. I am pretty convinced that a lot of detailers who believe their paint is spotless will actually have a vehicle coated in surfactant molecules.

The worst part of it is that I think that the abundance of brands and marketing probably mean that this is notably more of an issue now than it used to be.

 

[BradsDetailing]

What's your recommendation on a final wipe before a coating

 

[StuDLei]

I'm going to vent here. I just purchased eraser and realized also that it leaves something behind.

I don't know why they would create a product like this and expect someone to keep it.

For whatever it's worth, it does allow you to check your work. I can verify this to the absolute fullest extent after last night and tonight. Major swirling showed up after I used 205/orange and sf4500/black. I wiped up the polish twice, very thoroughly, before using Eraser and BAM! I'm pretty astonished right now and don't really know how to rectify the problem. I'm about to create a thread.

Anyways, any doubts I had about it doing its job are now gone. Whether it's okay to use before coatings I don't know.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

My 2 cents...

Eraser is fundamentally IPA, water and a lubricant. In my experience, that lubricant can leave a residue. Try over applying, no wiping, and let it dry and you will see what I mean (with IPA, this won't happen unless you dilute with water which contains minerals). It is fine for many waxes and sealants but you do need to take care with the coatings as the coating manufacturers could easily point to that lubricating surfactant if a problem occurs.

IMO, if you want to check your work, you need to make sure you are using something which is 100% volatile. If it contains surfactants, abrasives, lubricants, fragrances (etc) then you probably have some component which will not evaporate away easily. IPA is 100% volatile which is why many like it. Unfortunately it does very little in terms of lubrication (as you have noted). To my mind, the money is on a hydrocarbon solvent which will give you a degree of lubrication (remember that the heavier hydrocarbon solvents are basically lubricants in their own right) whilst, assuming you have a light solvent, maintaining that volatility. In the industry, these products are well known and are called panel wipes. Not only do they lubricate and not leave residues, they are actually far more effective solvents than IPA when it comes to removal of oils, greases, waxes (etc). IPA is great for light oils but it just isn't right once you get to waxes etc. The benefit, however, with IPA is that it can be diluted with water, panel wipes cannot.

Good info. Is GTechniq Panel Wipe the same type of panel wipe you're referring to? If not, can you give some examples?

Thanks

 

[DetailedByPrecision]

My 2 cents...

Eraser is fundamentally IPA, water and a lubricant. In my experience, that lubricant can leave a residue. Try over applying, no wiping, and let it dry and you will see what I mean (with IPA, this won't happen unless you dilute with water which contains minerals). It is fine for many waxes and sealants but you do need to take care with the coatings as the coating manufacturers could easily point to that lubricating surfactant if a problem occurs.

IMO, if you want to check your work, you need to make sure you are using something which is 100% volatile. If it contains surfactants, abrasives, lubricants, fragrances (etc) then you probably have some component which will not evaporate away easily. IPA is 100% volatile which is why many like it. Unfortunately it does very little in terms of lubrication (as you have noted). To my mind, the money is on a hydrocarbon solvent which will give you a degree of lubrication (remember that the heavier hydrocarbon solvents are basically lubricants in their own right) whilst, assuming you have a light solvent, maintaining that volatility. In the industry, these products are well known and are called panel wipes. Not only do they lubricate and not leave residues, they are actually far more effective solvents than IPA when it comes to removal of oils, greases, waxes (etc). IPA is great for light oils but it just isn't right once you get to waxes etc. The benefit, however, with IPA is that it can be diluted with water, panel wipes cannot.

Thank you for the informative post. But I do have a question that's lingering in the back of my mind since you mentioned Eraser leaves something behind used for a wipe down prior a coating. If that is the case, why aren't there people making threads about having weird issues with coatings after using Eraser? Many reputable detailers on this forum use Eraser before any coating, and so far they all seem to enjoy using it and not having any issues with the product in general. From my experience, I have used Eraser at full dilution ratio and cut it at a 1:1 ratio to strip scrap panels I polished out to test with. I tested Eraser with compounds, polishes, and finishing polishes, and the end result is always the same, it either shows a product is hiding swirls, or I removed all the swirls.

Now I am not stating that it doesn't leave anything behind because I do not have scientific knowledge, or the chemical background regarding Eraser, but what I am trying to say is, how can coatings that require the absolutely cleanest paint be able to "bond" to a surface with lubricants as mentioned and have no negative effects to the application?

 

[StuDLei]

Thank you for the informative post. But I do have a question that's lingering in the back of my mind since you mentioned Eraser leaves something behind used for a wipe down prior a coating. If that is the case, why aren't there people making threads about having weird issues with coatings after using Eraser? Many reputable detailers on this forum use Eraser before any coating, and so far they all seem to enjoy using it and not having any issues with the product in general. From my experience, I have used Eraser at full dilution ratio and cut it at a 1:1 ratio to strip scrap panels I polished out to test with. I tested Eraser with compounds, polishes, and finishing polishes, and the end result is always the same, it either shows a product is hiding swirls, or I removed all the swirls.

Now I am not stating that it doesn't leave anything behind because I do not have scientific knowledge, or the chemical background regarding Eraser, but what I am trying to say is, how can coatings that require the absolutely cleanest paint be able to "bond" to a surface with lubricants as mentioned and have no negative effects to the application?

The reason I asked is because personally, I recall a couple threads where guys' coatings didn't last very long. Eraser came up as one of the possible explanations. However, there seems to be quite a few who have used it successfully, so who freaking knows man! I wish guys like Dr G would post here more often.

 

[PiPUK]

I don't believe that there is really such a need for absolute cleanliness. I think there is an obsession over this which serves limited purpose in most instances. I read about people using Eraser, I read about people stripping LSPs with Dawn or heavy surfactant products and they just fire LSPs over the top. Eraser we will leave out but I know for absolute fact that other solutions leave residues and that, on the whole, no one really has problems after.

The argument is, of course, that the cleaner the surface, the less chance you have of issue. We do see and hear of occasional problems and it is possible that these come down to ultimate cleanliness. It is also possible that, with durablility being 6 months or a year (or similar) that users do not realise that they have compromised performance (i.e. maybe the product could have lasted 18 months, but most are content that it lasts 12 and thus don't question).

Panel wipe - I have heard good things about the Gtech product but there are any number of alternatives and you should be able to find something at any half decent motor shop (you certainly can in the UK!).

 

[StuDLei]

I don't believe that there is really such a need for absolute cleanliness. I think there is an obsession over this which serves limited purpose in most instances. I read about people using Eraser, I read about people stripping LSPs with Dawn or heavy surfactant products and they just fire LSPs over the top. Eraser we will leave out but I know for absolute fact that other solutions leave residues and that, on the whole, no one really has problems after.

The argument is, of course, that the cleaner the surface, the less chance you have of issue. We do see and hear of occasional problems and it is possible that these come down to ultimate cleanliness. It is also possible that, with durablility being 6 months or a year (or similar) that users do not realise that they have compromised performance (i.e. maybe the product could have lasted 18 months, but most are content that it lasts 12 and thus don't question).

Panel wipe - I have heard good things about the Gtech product but there are any number of alternatives and you should be able to find something at any half decent motor shop (you certainly can in the UK!).

This post describes what my gut has been telling me, at least as far as how far you need to go to properly prepare a surface for a coating. Great post.

TBH though, should I ever use a coating, I'll probably end up doing some sort of wipedown, just for the simple fact that I've never applied one before and they're quite expensive. Maybe I won't on one panel just to experiment.