WRAPT C5Z06
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- Nov 12, 2009
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I have zero desire to use any of these coatings on paint, only headlights.
Is sealant dead?
- Thread starter Old Tiger
- Start date
Me too Mark!!
My customers get their cars detailed every 3-6 months . I dont want them cutting back on my services! That could put me out of business !
fredcandetail
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- Jan 5, 2011
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Interesting thread ... I was getting a oil change yesterday at the dealer and he noticed my truck and logos and asked if I detailed... I told him yes blah blah blah and then went on to "what do you charge for my wife's car she never washes it blah blah blah" ... I went on to explain what a benefit CQuartz is and we went online here and read up on it and what a benefit it would be and he explained it was a new car and that any permanent coating added to the clear coat would compromise the warranty ... MY JAW DROPPED
So now what!?!?!? What's the comeback? Obviously if this voided the manufactures warranty no one would want this on there cars ....
So again ... Now what?
So now what!?!?!? What's the comeback? Obviously if this voided the manufactures warranty no one would want this on there cars ....
So again ... Now what?
CEE DOG
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I think Chris description is just the basic description while what I wrote tells a little more about it. Hmmm, maybe I'm wrong completely? I'm pretty sure my info is right unless wherever I got it from was wrong.
Well, I cant remember where I got that info originally but I wrote that in my review and extreme testing article on OC. Even though I cant remember I just read through my Q&A with David and saw that in one of the answers he mentions that OC makes ceramic bonds.... Check out that Q&A for the full context. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I either got that description of it's structure from either AG or Optimum.
FUNX650
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- Dec 1, 2010
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:iagree:
Also, in Chris' own words, Opti-Coat/Gard is a type of coating...just not a nano-coating! POST#'s 22 & 31 of this thread.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...s-opti-coat-protect-against-swirls-chips.html
Also: What actually qualifies coatings, sealants, waxes (or for that matter...anything else in this world) to be considered nanotechnolgy? Is it: Speaking of "stuff" only between .2nm and 100nm ? Or, does this include: nano-materials, nano-composites, nano-particles, carbon nano-tubes, nano-hybrids?
I've said this before: "Nanotechnologies are not new. They've been used in producing computer micro-chips for 20 or more years. In fact, Chemists have been making polymers, that are basically large molecules composed of nano-sized complexes, for decades".
Then....Waxes that contain Polymers....Polymer-Based Sealants...Acrylic Polymer Sealants....could these actually be "nanotech" products and somebody forgot to tell us?
Who, or what, determines the qualifications of any particular verbalism to become the latest "Buzz Words"?
Is sealants dead?
Not too many products for the car care industry (and other industries as well) will suffer a 'death' as long as reformulations/re-naming of the "old" products...and the "new" products... have the correct marketing strategy, IMO.
Bob
Pats300zx
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- Mar 7, 2006
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I hear ya Mark. I have to much other stuff I need to use first lol :xyxthumbs:
Setec Astronomy
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- Aug 31, 2010
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I'm not sure that what you quoted from Dr. G "Opti-Coat 2.0 forms ceramic bonds (Si-C)" means that OC 2.0 is a silicon carbide coating. I think this is just another way of describing the covalent bond which has been referred to.
Auto detailing products have been rife with buzz words, misnomers, and fantastic claims...forever. I don't see the coating era being any different, no matter how much better they may be than traditional LSP's. (And no, I'm not lumping Dr. G into this category, he seems to be as straight a shooter as they come...even if I think the only way OCW is going to last 5 months is in the garage
)
triplejumper18
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- Oct 26, 2010
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LOL not a single OEM warranty covers the paint.
CEE DOG
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While it was made possible in the 80's ... Nano tech in commercial applications is relatively new I think....since the early 2000's. It's use in our application is relatively new it's been available overseas for a few years.
If you recall an article I posted on here 2 or 3 years ago it talked about a nano tech spray on glass product that would revolutionize the world. They were using it on the front of bullet trains and theorizing on using it on clothing and just about everything you can imagine. The article said that within a few years when you purchased something it would already be coated with this product. In Europe and Asia they were already using these products.
In testing they found that if you coated your kitchen countertops (or anything else for that matter) a simple microfiber towel with water would remove and bacteria much easier and completely than using the harsh chemicals many people use on regular countertops and surfaces. This nano tech glass layer disables the ability of bacteria to replicate on it's surface so there is much less bacteria and the mf of course easily removes anything that is since the bacteria can not permeate or hold on to the surface.
Of course the huge companies that sell you bleach, pinesol, and every other cleaner that makes BILLIONS per year try's to slow the growth and applications of this technology.
Wikipedia has some info on what is considered nanotechnology in the definition we are discussing.
If you recall an article I posted on here 2 or 3 years ago it talked about a nano tech spray on glass product that would revolutionize the world. They were using it on the front of bullet trains and theorizing on using it on clothing and just about everything you can imagine. The article said that within a few years when you purchased something it would already be coated with this product. In Europe and Asia they were already using these products.
In testing they found that if you coated your kitchen countertops (or anything else for that matter) a simple microfiber towel with water would remove and bacteria much easier and completely than using the harsh chemicals many people use on regular countertops and surfaces. This nano tech glass layer disables the ability of bacteria to replicate on it's surface so there is much less bacteria and the mf of course easily removes anything that is since the bacteria can not permeate or hold on to the surface.
Of course the huge companies that sell you bleach, pinesol, and every other cleaner that makes BILLIONS per year try's to slow the growth and applications of this technology.
Wikipedia has some info on what is considered nanotechnology in the definition we are discussing.
FUNX650
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More and more products will no doubt be introduced in the coming years.
Some products such as PPG, DuPont auto paint systems have been around for a while.....
....Which brings up the health & safety issue of how much/what kind of nano's will a person be exposed to, while performing correction/detailing on a clear-coat paint film that contains nano's?
Also.....Just wanted to interject another source in which nanotechnology can be researched.
Bob
CEE DOG
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Nanotech-enabled Consumer Products Continue to Rise • News Archive • Nanotechnology Project
2006 - (212) consumer products identified as nanotechnology
2011 - (1300+)
2006 - (212) consumer products identified as nanotechnology
2011 - (1300+)
RaskyR1
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- Apr 14, 2008
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I don't feel waxes or sealants are dead at all as they will always have their place, but I do feel there will definitely be a shift in use towards coatings the more people learn about them and realize the benefits they offer.
A quote from a post I made on another forum....
Rasky
A quote from a post I made on another forum....
Rasky
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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I think every product has a place and time for best use...
The "average" person can barely use Turtle Wax or Nu Finish without making a mistake.
Forum People
Car enthusiasts that hang out on detailing discussion forums are the exception but that's because discussion forums are so good at disseminating information and members like you find on AGO are so good at helping others to dial-in their technique to ensure success with any type of product.
Last week we applied CQuartz to a very rare Porsche and one of the reasons I chose this product was to make it easier for the owner to maintain the finish without getting swirls and scratches from normal maintenance,e like wiping the paint with a spray detailer.
Tomorrow night, we're applying Opti-Coat to a custom black paint job on a 1977 Can Am Corvette to again, help the owner to maintain the finish without inflicting swirls and scratches into the paint.
In both examples, I don't believe the owners of these cars posses the knowledge or skills to properly prepare the paint for application of a coating, or actually apply the coating. It's not that they're not "Car Guys" as they are, it's just that detailing their car isn't their hobby, interest or passion.
Driving their cars is what they are into. :cruisin:
Both owners have or are helping with the above projects so they get on the job training, but if it were not for the "Autogeek's Car of the Week" class I'm not sure either person would ever have the opportunity to learn how to machine polish paint and the apply a coating.
So bring on the new technology but there's a segment of the market that's going to continue to use car waxes and synthetic paint sealants a long time into the future.
I don't think the average Joe Consumer has the knowledge level or the skill level to correctly prepare paint for a coating, let along apply and/or remove a coating. This may change as technology improves.
The "average" person can barely use Turtle Wax or Nu Finish without making a mistake.
Forum People
Car enthusiasts that hang out on detailing discussion forums are the exception but that's because discussion forums are so good at disseminating information and members like you find on AGO are so good at helping others to dial-in their technique to ensure success with any type of product.
Last week we applied CQuartz to a very rare Porsche and one of the reasons I chose this product was to make it easier for the owner to maintain the finish without getting swirls and scratches from normal maintenance,e like wiping the paint with a spray detailer.
Tomorrow night, we're applying Opti-Coat to a custom black paint job on a 1977 Can Am Corvette to again, help the owner to maintain the finish without inflicting swirls and scratches into the paint.
In both examples, I don't believe the owners of these cars posses the knowledge or skills to properly prepare the paint for application of a coating, or actually apply the coating. It's not that they're not "Car Guys" as they are, it's just that detailing their car isn't their hobby, interest or passion.
Driving their cars is what they are into. :cruisin:
Both owners have or are helping with the above projects so they get on the job training, but if it were not for the "Autogeek's Car of the Week" class I'm not sure either person would ever have the opportunity to learn how to machine polish paint and the apply a coating.
So bring on the new technology but there's a segment of the market that's going to continue to use car waxes and synthetic paint sealants a long time into the future.
Mike Phillips
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- Dec 5, 2022
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Nice post Chad. :xyxthumbs:
Chad is an example of where coatings are making in-roads to the masses. The masses are not able to utilize these new coatings because of the lack of their knowledge and skill in the craft of car detailing.
The masses can and do rely on professionals like Chad to first, educate them on their options, and then second, do the work for them...
Two kinds of people in this world,
- DIY - Do-it-yourselfer
- DIFM- Do-it-for-me
Right now, coatings technology is in it's infancy and the strongest market is for DIFM customers that rely on people like Chad...
gtechrob
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- Sep 7, 2010
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not been through this tread forensically yet but just to add my 2p.
as identified on this thread we have a strong background in marine - particularly for really big stuff - >130ft yachts through partners in the Mediterranean.
One of the big issues that i would say 90% of sealants and waxes have in marine applications other than poor durability, is staining. if you want a surface to offer great stain resistance you need to make it hard and dense. most sealants and waxes will be softer than the relatively hard polyester urethane paint they are supposed to be protecting (PU paint is significantly harder than acrylic used in the auto industry).
here are a couple of shots illustrating this point:
same too goes for cars but it's going to be less noticeable.
on a side issue both c1 and c2 are 100% clear and will never yellow and are oem paint compatible.
FUNX650
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- Dec 1, 2010
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Now we are getting somewhere
.....I've seen that info just recently. (Post#52 of this thread)Maintenance & Accessories • Automotive • Nanotechnology Project:
"In their consumer products inventory there are currently 1317 products, produced by 587 companies, located in 30 countries".
Bob
CEE DOG
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- Jul 12, 2009
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Lol buddy!
Mike and Chad, you guys make some good points but I would suggest that using something like permanon or c2 that you can mist on and blow off easier than any sealant or wax is easier for any person than applying a wax or sealant. I know these aren't "coatings" in the way we are talking but the line is blurry when discussing a lot of the new tech. They dont offer everything coatings do but they offer the same benefits when it comes to easily cleaning your vehicle and they offer an ease of use that others do not. In fact reload, c2, and permanon, and I am sure others, show less dust adherence, easier washing, and better protection from the elements than the traditional lsp.
If all of those points can be established than it comes down to a matter of education of the masses and cost per application.