Is this DA Haze? Black Acura - How to Fix?

[SirFrederick]

I have a 2018 black Acura TLX. I wanted to do a 1 step correction and start getting it prepared for winter. My LSP was going to be Klasse High Gloss Sealant Glaze. My car did not need claying as it was just done roughly 3 weeks ago. It was squeaky clean to the touch after drying. I did quickly spray an iron remover but did not see any purple run off. I followed up after drying with Optimum Paint Prep wipe down.

Equipment:
Adams Swirl Killer 12mm DA
LC Low Profile Thin Force Pad - Orange
Scholl Concepts S20 Black
Costco Kirkland Microfiber - these were new and washed only twice without use yet
Rag Company Eagle Edgeless Creature Microfiber

I taped off a section just to test out this pad and polish combo. 4 dime sized drops on the pad and not spritz of detail spray or water. I spread it around on low speed then jumped up 5 and did 4 slow passes, then slowed down to 4 and did 1 quicker pass. I wiped off the residue with my costco mf first. From the naked eye it appeared clean and shiny. When I shined my flashlight I could say a clear difference between the section I covered and the rest of the panel. The section I covered was dull and hazy, however I can not see this without shining the light and getting close up. I sprayed my optimum paint prep and wiped off with my eagle edgeless creature. No difference. In the pictures the right side is the dull side I hit and the left side is the untouched side. Also you can see the same thing with the top line as well.

I spend numerous hours researching over the last day and a half and I'm thinking this is possibly DA Haze from using to strong of a pad. I'm a beginner though, so I don't know for sure. From what I can gather I could resolve this by using a black finishing pad with a finer finishing polish. I've also read that the opposite may be true and I may need a stronger pad. I really don't know if I have soft or hard paint. Traditionally Acura paint is soft but who knows. The correction even though hazy showed improvement but not as much as I would have hoped.

Where do I go from here? Black pad and S20 or black pad and finer polish? Which polish if so? Some ideas are Menzerna SF3500 or GG Boss perfecting cream. Or am I totally wrong on what is going on here?

Any guidance is appreciated.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Just to note,

You had two identical threads, my guess is because the thread was "Moderated" automatically by our forum software for suspicion of being a spam post. Just a guess.

I approved both of your "moderated" threads and then moved the duplicate to the Moderator forum group.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I have a 2018 black Acura TLX.

I think a lot of people find the paint on these cars to be soft. I never generalize myself but instead do a Test Spot, but I am throwing this into the equation as soft paint does micr-mar very easily.

LC Low Profile Thin Force Pad - Orange
Scholl Concepts S20 Black

It's been a long time since I used any Scholl Concepts compounds and polishes, we use to sell them on the AG store but due to lack of sales they were discontinued so can't comment on the abrasive technology being the issue.

I can tell you that a Lake Country ThinPro Orange foam cutting pad is sharp enough to EASILY micro-mar paint.

The "normal" process would be, after cutting with a cutting pad, you follow this step with a softer, less aggressive pad and product. Especially if you're seeing micro-marring.

From the naked eye it appeared clean and shiny. When I shined my flashlight I could say a clear difference between the section I covered and the rest of the panel. The section I covered was dull and hazy, however I can not see this without shining the light and getting close up. I sprayed my optimum paint prep and wiped off with my eagle edgeless creature. No difference.

In the pictures the right side is the dull side I hit and the left side is the untouched side. Also you can see the same thing with the top line as well.

The paint on the right side of your tape line is micro-marring. It might be pad haze and it might be micro-marring from the abrasives and it might be micro-marring from both the pad and the product.

Where do I go from here? Black pad and S20 or black pad and finer polish? Which polish if so? Some ideas are Menzerna SF3500 or GG Boss perfecting cream. Or am I totally wrong on what is going on here?

Yes, do a second Test Spot over a PORTION of the micro-marred area that you polished with the LC ThinPro orange pad and the S20 only now switch to a softer foam polishing pad and a less aggressive polish.

Both Menzerna and Griot's use great abrasive technology. You want a fine cut polish for the next step.

In the world there are,

1. Aggressive compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

You want either a fine cut or ultra fine cut polish.

In the Wolfgang line, the abrasive technology is made by Menzerna and the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze would be a great bubba-proof way to go. It's not a "glaze" but a fine cut polish. No sure who named this product back in the day but it should be called a polish.

The Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish would also be a bubba-proof option, different abrasive technology but top notch. For Menzerna, I think their 3800 product is a fine cut, they change their names too often, need to figure out their game and then stick with it.

Any guidance is appreciated.

See the above...

 

[Desertnate]

I'm going to make an assumption Acura paint is very similar, if not the same as Honda paint, but I've not actually worked on an Acura.

When polishing my Honda, I have been able to do all the correcting needed with nothing more than some white Lake Country Thin Pro and Flat pads and a finishing polish. The paint was in horrible condition when the car was purchased, but test spots revealed the paint was so soft you can take it from trashed to like-new with very little effort.

I performed a test spot with both Megulars Ultimate Polish and Blacfire's SRC Finishing Polish and settled on the Blackfire product simply because I liked the way it worked a little better and it finished out a little glossier. Both products would have finished out just fine.

 

[SirFrederick]

Just to note,

You had two identical threads, my guess is because the thread was "Moderated" automatically by our forum software for suspicion of being a spam post. Just a guess.

I approved both of your "moderated" threads and then moved the duplicate to the Moderator forum group.

I appreciate that. I believe it was my fault actually.

 

[SirFrederick]

I can tell you that a Lake Country ThinPro Orange foam cutting pad is sharp enough to EASILY micro-mar paint.

Would I better off going with a different pad? The pads that are available to me for ordering are (I'm in Canada):

1. LC Hybrid Force Pads
2. LC HDO Orbital Pads
3. Buff and Shine Uro-Tec
4. GG Fast Correcting Pads

The paint on the right side of your tape line is micro-marring. It might be pad haze and it might be micro-marring from the abrasives and it might be micro-marring from both the pad and the product.

Yes, do a second Test Spot over a PORTION of the micro-marred area that you polished with the LC ThinPro orange pad and the S20 only now switch to a softer foam polishing pad and a less aggressive polish.

Both Menzerna and Griot's use great abrasive technology. You want a fine cut polish for the next step.

In the world there are,

1. Aggressive compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

You want either a fine cut or ultra fine cut polish.

In the Wolfgang line, the abrasive technology is made by Menzerna and the Wolfgang Finishing Glaze would be a great bubba-proof way to go. It's not a "glaze" but a fine cut polish. No sure who named this product back in the day but it should be called a polish.

The Pinnacle Advanced Finishing Polish would also be a bubba-proof option, different abrasive technology but top notch. For Menzerna, I think their 3800 product is a fine cut, they change their names too often, need to figure out their game and then stick with it.

Thank you for this information. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[SirFrederick]

I'm going to make an assumption Acura paint is very similar, if not the same as Honda paint, but I've not actually worked on an Acura.

When polishing my Honda, I have been able to do all the correcting needed with nothing more than some white Lake Country Thin Pro and Flat pads and a finishing polish. The paint was in horrible condition when the car was purchased, but test spots revealed the paint was so soft you can take it from trashed to like-new with very little effort.

I performed a test spot with both Megulars Ultimate Polish and Blacfire's SRC Finishing Polish and settled on the Blackfire product simply because I liked the way it worked a little better and it finished out a little glossier. Both products would have finished out just fine.

This is good info. I'm hoping that I can still accomplish a 1 step once I find the right product and pad combo.

How many passes did you do per section and did you have to alter anything with your final pass to achieve those results?

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Definitely micro-marring. Generally speaking, S20 finishes very good, even on softer paint. 4 dime sized drops on a 3" pad? Way too much product. Reduce amount of product and try it with a quality polishing pad. You results should improve. If that doesn't work, S30+ is a great option for minor correction on softer paint. Also, I wouldn't use the Kirkland microfiber to remove polish residue. You don't want to deal with towel marring either.

 

[SirFrederick]

Definitely micro-marring. Generally speaking, S20 finishes very good, even on softer paint. 4 dime sized drops on a 3" pad? Way too much product. Reduce amount of product and try it with a quality polishing pad. You results should improve. If that doesn't work, S30+ is a great option for minor correction on softer paint. Also, I wouldn't use the Kirkland microfiber to remove polish residue. You don't want to deal with towel marring either.

It was 5.5" pad that I used. In addition to taking Mike's recommendation and using a fine cut polish with less aggressive pad, I will also test the S20 with a less aggressive pad to see how it works as well. Thanks for your info.

 

[Paul A.]

I had a new black Acura NSX not too long ago with some light marring most likely from the dealer. I used a super fine finishing polish and black 5.5" Thin Pro's on my old, and I mean 20 plus year old, PC 7336 and it finished out beautifully. I had to gently whisper to the paint some sweet nothings here and there to "persuade" correction.

Point being...it may have been the softest paint I have ever encountered.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

It was 5.5" pad that I used. In addition to taking Mike's recommendation and using a fine cut polish with less aggressive pad, I will also test the S20 with a less aggressive pad to see how it works as well. Thanks for your info.

Oh ok, you mentioned a 12mn polisher. As far as I know, Adams does not make a 12mm polisher that uses 5.5” pads. It’s actually 15mm with 5.5” pads.

Anyhow, Sonax Perfect Finish with a Rupes yellow or white pad is an awesome combo for soft black paint.


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[Desertnate]

This is good info. I'm hoping that I can still accomplish a 1 step once I find the right product and pad combo.

How many passes did you do per section and did you have to alter anything with your final pass to achieve those results?

When you dial in the product/pad combo you should easily be able to get great results in one step.

I did 4~5 passes of each section. I define a "pass" as going over the area in one direction. Four passes of an area would entail two horizontal passes and two vertical passes alternating between the two directions. The paint was so easy to polish out I didn't do anything special on the final pass. I simply provided medium pressure across all passes and then wiped of the polish.

Below is a 50/50 picture from the gray Honda I mentioned in my first post. You're Acrura doesn't appear to be anywhere near the sorry state of my Honda, so you should have it looking amazing in no time.

 

[DMW]

The super soft paint might explain why my neighbor's red TSX is now pink on the top. Even though the car sits outside all of the time and we're in AZ, I've never seen a car's paint fade so bad.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

The super soft paint might explain why my neighbor's red TSX is now pink on the top. Even though the car sits outside all of the time and we're in AZ, I've never seen a car's paint fade so bad.

I really don’t think that has to do with the softness of the paint, but rather the intense AZ heat.


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[SirFrederick]

Oh ok, you mentioned a 12mn polisher. As far as I know, Adams does not make a 12mm polisher that uses 5.5” pads. It’s actually 15mm with 5.5” pads.

Anyhow, Sonax Perfect Finish with a Rupes yellow or white pad is an awesome combo for soft black paint.


Sent from my iPhone using Autogeekonline mobile app

Oops, typo on my part there. I meant 15mm. I've heard nothing but good things about perfect finish. Another combo to keep in mind. Thanks

 

[SWETM]

The S20 Black is recommended to use with there honey spiderpad finishing pad on soft asian paints. And the S20 is a compound that finish like a finish polish. As it's seems you have a very soft clearcoat so S20 may be to aggressive. It's a little wrong way but you could combo with a finishing pad and S20 and see where it takes you. Why I say wrong is you start with the least aggressive combo. And with a soft clearcoat a finishing polish with a finishing or a polishing pad is where you start doing your test spot. It's easier to see if you need to go more aggressive when you have a clear test spot. And from there move up in aggressiveness of pad or abrasives. It can be that you have to much of defects to get away with a one step correction. How do you think you corrected the swirls when you look at the swirls you have on the non polished section against the spot you did? If you take the da haze out of the picture. And if you still see swirls you had from the beginning through the DA haze. You don't have an enough aggressive combo. That's why it could be good to use a finishing polish with a finishing pad to clear up the DA haze and see if the correction is enough. If it's enough you still can get away with a less aggressive combo. Otherwise it's a 2 step correction or find the most aggressive combo that don't gets DA haze.

And as someone else noted. Get some quality mf towel to wipe off your polish with. Some soft finicky paints needs a very soft plush mf towel. And if you are the only owner of the car. I would look at your washing method. So you if you get a nice finish after your correction. And after some washes see that your work needs to be done again. It's a very gentle approach to wash soft paints and some gentle wash media and quality wash solutions and also a gentle drying method. To get have a nice finish for as long as possible before polishing it again.

 

[SirFrederick]

I tried WGFG3.0 with a LC black thin profile pad. It took care of the haze/micro-marring.

I tested the trunk area with a 3 different combo's. The spaces I tested were smaller so I used 3 small drops of polish on the pad.
1) WGFG3.0 + black pad, speed 4, 4 passes - this did a minor correction and left no haze/marring
2) S20 + BnS Eurotec white pad, speed 4, 4 passes - this did a minor correction and left no haze/marring
3) S20 + BnS Eurotec burgundy 3" pad, speed 4, 4 passes - My wife just bought me a mini polisher with some BnS Eurotec burgundy pads so I thought I'd give it a try.

1 and 2 were pretty much similar. The S20 possibly had a slightly better correction, but barely if any. The S20 seemed to dust more though. I only have one pad so I couldn't test using same pad but I believe those two pads will achieve the same results with both products. 3 left a slight haze/marring and the correction appeared to be better.

With the WGFG3.0 and black pad I'm not entirely happy with the results. I hoped for a little more correction. I'm not expecting perfect for only doing a one step, but thought maybe I'd get more out of it. Should I be going up to speed 5? Am I most likely going to need to do a full two step correction to achieve better results? I'm also aware that my lack of experience and probably technique may be playing a role here as well.

What kind of impact does the thickness of a pad have on it's performance? The LC pad is thinner than the BnS pad I have. They both seemed to perform basically the same so I'm wondering why there is such difference in pad thickness with all companies not just the two I have. I am going to order another 5 pads for the one I decide to go with so any input regarding that would be great.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

With the WGFG3.0 and black pad I'm not entirely happy with the results. I hoped for a little more correction.

I'm not expecting perfect for only doing a one step, but thought maybe I'd get more out of it.

Should I be going up to speed 5?

Just to bring this back into context, here's what I wrote in post #3 of this thread,

I You want a fine cut polish for the next step.

In the world there are,

1. Aggressive compound
2. Medium cut polish
3. Fine cut polish
4. Ultra fine cut polish

You want either a fine cut or ultra fine cut polish.

If in fact the paint is soft, then to finish out you need a fine cut polish. Anything more aggressive will tend to leave micro-marring. It's a case of more correction means micro-marring. So yeah, for this paint to remove the deeper defects and also finishing out to zero micro-marring you might have to do 2 steps.

Pad type is also a huge factor when working on any paint but more importantly - softer paints because by their very nature they scratch easy.

Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is a top notch fine cut polish, I trust it 100% on soft paints.

 

[SirFrederick]

Just to bring this back into context, here's what I wrote in post #3 of this thread,

If in fact the paint is soft, then to finish out you need a fine cut polish. Anything more aggressive will tend to leave micro-marring. It's a case of more correction means micro-marring. So yeah, for this paint to remove the deeper defects and also finishing out to zero micro-marring you might have to do 2 steps.

Pad type is also a huge factor when working on any paint but more importantly - softer paints because by their very nature they scratch easy.

Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is a top notch fine cut polish, I trust it 100% on soft paints.

Thanks Mike. A two step is probably the way to go. It's funny because 99% of the swirl marks I have were from the dealership. I'm pretty meticulous with my washing techniques and routine. It's probably worth it to do a two step now and then I will probably only need to go with a one step polish every spring afterwards.

The WG total swirl remover is probably a good compound to pair with the finishing glaze. Would I need to go to anything heavier than an orange pad? How is the Meguiars Ultimate Compound to work with? Only reason I ask is I can actually buy that locally for pretty cheap. Would this be fine for soft black paint compared to more expensive compounds from WG or Menzerna?

 

[SirFrederick]

Just an update here. I was going to post a picture of a test section I did but it looks there are some issue's with picture/gallery right now. I'll add the pic later once the issue is fixed, but I'll ask my questions anyways.

On my test section I used GG correcting cream with orange pad as a first step. Then I taped that section into two halves and did one side with WGFG3.0 and a black pad. The results are really nice. Obviously the side that I finished has no haze and is much glossier. My understanding is the WGFG3.0 is equivalent to the Menzerna SF3500. I was thinking that since I'm doing a two step correction anyways should I go up to an ultra fine finishing polish like SF3800? Would there be noticeable difference? If going to an ultra fine finishing polish do I need a different pad instead of the black LC pad?