Labocosmetica 2ph system...Alkaline & ACIDIC, questions

[Klasse Act]

I know several of you either had a thread or a conversation within a thread about these products, maybe even the entire 3ph system but my questions focus mainly on the pre-wash system

I understand the times to use both, for the most part, but here's my questions and yes, I'm a little "thick" here, probably because I'm over thinking it

1. When using either one as a pre-soak, do you simply come back with whatever RW your using and clean the section

1a. Can you pre-treat with whatever RW solution your using to add even more lubrucity and/or act as a rinsing away of the pre-soak product your using

2. These 2 products are NOT to be used as a stand alone RW or WW, correct

I'm about to buy one of them, thinking about both but not sure ACIDIC would get used much by me as I don't get too much water sporting/mineral deposits that I can see...talk me in or out of ACIDIC as an additional weapon in my collection, pretty sure Alkaline is a good

Thoughts....

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[Setec Astronomy]

Just to clarify before things get rolling here, are you talking about the Labo rinseless process, which would be Preludio Alkaline and Preludio Acidic, followed by Idrosave? Or the traditional 3pH system, which is Primus (alkaline), Purifica (acidic), Semper (neutral)?

Just to complicate things I know there are members who have been using the traditional products as a rinseless prewash, but may have been using that as part of a hybrid wash process. And no, as I understand it, Preludio is not intended to be used as a standalone.

I bought the Preludio twins during Black Friday sales, but I haven't used them yet. Following the bottle dilutions seems hugely uneconomical, when I get to using them I intend to start by diluting them a lot more than the directions, I also figure that will contaminate the wash less.

 

[Klasse Act]

Sorry about that, it's the RW products

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[Hobbit]

I know several of you either had a thread or a conversation within a thread about these products, maybe even the entire 3ph system but my questions focus mainly on the pre-wash system

I understand the times to use both, for the most part, but here's my questions and yes, I'm a little "thick" here, probably because I'm over thinking it

1. When using either one as a pre-soak, do you simply come back with whatever RW your using and clean the section

1a. Can you pre-treat with whatever RW solution your using to add even more lubrucity and/or act as a rinsing away of the pre-soak product your using

2. These 2 products are NOT to be used as a stand alone RW or WW, correct

I'm about to buy one of them, thinking about both but not sure ACIDIC would get used much by me as I don't get too much water sporting/mineral deposits that I can see...talk me in or out of ACIDIC as an additional weapon in my collection, pretty sure Alkaline is a good

Thoughts....

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1. Yep.
1a. I've seen guys use just straight APC in that fashion. Rinsing the apc treatment with rinsless wash from a detail keg. I have one but never used it much yet.
2. They have mentioned mixing Irdosave and 10% of Preludio in a spray bottle for a powerful quick detailer that you could take on the road for instance. I never tried it. But i should start to bring something and that's probably what it will be.

For me personally and i think Labocosmetica is trying to explain this to people.

Preludio Alkaline is meant for spot/area cleaning you don't just spray it all over the car. You can but it would be too expensive and unnecessary. This is a special case product i guess you can call it - sounds so important haha. I hope to use it again soon but last time i sprayed down the lower panels rather quickly waited and rinsless washed with idrosave. Easy peasy. Idrosave is stout. 4 weeks stout or more.

it smells very nice too which frankly is a big bonus for me.(Preludio Alkaline) Both do.

I don't think i will be getting Preludio Acidic. I will be getting another bottle of purficia instead i think or even energo. I did have trouble with waterspots but not since i started rinseless washing much more often then dragging all the gear up my basement. I have a 50 foot hose too from cobrajet its too much of a chore. I just use the garden hose.

 

[Klasse Act]

1. Yep.
1a. I've seen guys use just straight APC in that fashion. Rinsing the apc treatment with rinsless wash from a detail keg. I have one but never used it much yet.
2. They have mentioned mixing Irdosave and 10% of Preludio in a spray bottle for a powerful quick detailer that you could take on the road for instance. I never tried it. But i should start to bring something and that's probably what it will be.

For me personally and i think Labocosmetica is trying to explain this to people.

Preludio Alkaline is meant for spot/area cleaning you don't just spray it all over the car. You can but it would be too expensive and unnecessary. This is a special case product i guess you can call it - sounds so important haha. I hope to use it again soon but last time i sprayed down the lower panels rather quickly waited and rinsless washed with idrosave. Easy peasy. Idrosave is stout. 4 weeks stout or more.

it smells very nice too which frankly is a big bonus for me.(Preludio Alkaline) Both do.

I don't think i will be getting Preludio Acidic. I will be getting another bottle of purficia instead i think or even energo. I did have trouble with waterspots but not since i started rinseless washing much more often then dragging all the gear up my basement. I have a 50 foot hose too from cobrajet its too much of a chore. I just use the garden hose.

Thank you Hobbit️

Based on your experience and explanation I was correct in thinking I didn't really need ACIDIC pre-wash RW. So the Alkaline will be used on hard hit areas like the front bumper and lower, side sections, once again...THANK YOU

I watched a video from Labocosmetica themselves and 1 independent, random YouTube video but wanted to double check with my fellow geeks about this as some of you guys are REALLY into both RW and 2BM systems from this company. I've only got experience with Idrosave and I've gotta say it's 10/10, NO DOUBT

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[Hobbit]

Thank you Hobbit️

Based on your experience and explanation I was correct in thinking I didn't really need ACIDIC pre-wash RW. So the Alkaline will be used on hard hit areas like the front bumper and lower, side sections, once again...THANK YOU

I watched a video from Labocosmetica themselves and 1 independent, random YouTube video but wanted to double check with my fellow geeks about this as some of you guys are REALLY into both RW and 2BM systems from this company. I've only got experience with Idrosave and I've gotta say it's 10/10, NO DOUBT

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I'm not sure if your "correct" just because i said it . I have watched a lot of Reggie's video's.

I'm clearly a Labo fanboy.

 

[Klasse Act]

I'm not sure if your "correct" just because i said it . I have watched a lot of Reggie's video's.

I'm clearly a Labo fanboy.

Take a bow, it's a good as I don't have experience with it but you do, plus your a fanboy as you said, so it's one of those times to beat your chest and tell the world about your favorite or one of your favorite products out there

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[Setec Astronomy]

Preludio Alkaline is meant for spot/area cleaning you don't just spray it all over the car. You can but it would be too expensive and unnecessary. This is a special case product i guess you can call it - sounds so important haha. I hope to use it again soon but last time i sprayed down the lower panels rather quickly waited and rinsless washed with idrosave. Easy peasy.

Forget spraying it all over the car, let's just say you spray down the lower panels like you did...how much did you use, a quart? Maybe more? At the 1:10 dilution ratio for "moderate dirt", that means my quart bottle of Preludio Alkaline is going to last only 10 washes, where my quart of Idrosave is going to last for 32 washes (at 2 gallons/wash). They do say you can go to 1:20 for light dirt.

As I noted earlier, when I get around to using Preludio I'm likely to dilute it at least 1:20, probably more, and see how it compares to a regular RW at say 1:128, as a lot of people do for pre-soak.

 

[Uncbrs]

I'm going to bet you can get away with Alkaline at 1:20 only given how well you keep up on your vehicles. Possibly the biggest advantage you might have for Acidic is coating rejuvenation?

I bought both and have only used alkaline for now. I mixed at 1:10, sprayed it where needed and then used ADS Hero as the RW. I may have used another RW on some of the vehicle too while comparing RWs, I can't recall for certain. What I do know is the alkaline definitely acted as a prewash (where applied) and then I used my other RW mixtures to prewash where I didn't use any alkaline. I don't think you would NEED to use alkaline (or acidic), pre-treat with your RW and then use the RW again...but you certainly COULD if you want. I mostly sprayed alkaline on lower panels and front/back areas. Worked very well.

In that other thread, I think it displayed exactly what Labo never expected... everyone had different questions and ideas. The 3ph rinseless system became more complicated than they probably intended but the flexibility it gives during the winter is nice. With the evolution of RW this last year, I'm even starting to feel like I can't screw up a rinseless (famous last words)

Will be curious to see how you buy and apply

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[Klasse Act]

I'm going to bet you can get away with Alkaline at 1:20 only given how well you keep up on your vehicles. Possibly the biggest advantage you might have for Acidic is coating rejuvenation?

I bought both and have only used alkaline for now. I mixed at 1:10, sprayed it where needed and then used ADS Hero as the RW. I may have used another RW on some of the vehicle too while comparing RWs, I can't recall for certain. What I do know is the alkaline definitely acted as a prewash (where applied) and then I used my other RW mixtures to prewash where I didn't use any alkaline. I don't think you would NEED to use alkaline (or acidic), pre-treat with your RW and then use the RW again...but you certainly COULD if you want. I mostly sprayed alkaline on lower panels and front/back areas. Worked very well.

In that other thread, I think it displayed exactly what Labo never expected... everyone had different questions and ideas. The 3ph rinseless system became more complicated than they probably intended but the flexibility it gives during the winter is nice. With the evolution of RW this last year, I'm even starting to feel like I can't screw up a rinseless (famous last words)

Will be curious to see how you buy and apply

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Oh yeah, I'll update the group for sure️

As far as how I'll use it, well, like I said, it's about being safe AND rinsing away the ACIDIC or Alkaline like a pre-wash, the way you do ANY other pre-wash in a 2BM but this is the RW side of it, I'm starting to get it, the density of my head is "getting it"

So you think ACIDIC is really good at resetting a coating, say after winter? If so, maybe I'll get it just for that but then again, I've got 2BM, conventional soaps for that, plus access to a power washer wash 1-3 times a month now, many options but then again, another brand new car to maintain, one I'm REALLY going to to embrace fully

Thank you for the comments, it's really got me thinking, ask more or post more if needed here, I need as much info as possible here

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[Uncbrs]

Oh yeah, I'll update the group for sure️

As far as how I'll use it, well, like I said, it's about being safe AND rinsing away the ACIDIC or Alkaline like a pre-wash, the way you do ANY other pre-wash in a 2BM but this is the RW side of it, I'm starting to get it, the density of my head is "getting it"

So you think ACIDIC is really good at resetting a coating, say after winter? If so, maybe I'll get it just for that but then again, I've got 2BM, conventional soaps for that, plus access to a power washer wash 1-3 times a month now, many options but then again, another brand new car to maintain, one I'm REALLY going to to embrace fully

Thank you for the comments, it's really got me thinking, ask more or post more if needed here, I need as much info as possible here

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I still haven't tried it - makes me think I should give it a go after this cold moves out - but I'm thinking Acid will serve as a good reset to the coating during winter. The Labo website is really pushing it as a rejuvenation step for rinseless/waterless.

Not wanting to start another good/bad YT thread but this guy uses both together - first one I came across that showed it used this way:

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[Coatingsarecrack]

I’d recommend getting the Acidic too. You’re going to get mineral deposits that don’t form in waterspots.

Acidic was also good at melting Tar and tree sap before the rinseless for me.

I mixed up 11oz in a bottle with Talco trigger. You are not going to drench like normal pretreat.

I used maybe 3rd of bottle to get bottle rockers on side and rear side. So 4 oz maybe

Sprayed anything that looked goopy with acidic. Let dwell 5 minutes. Then I used DiY and sprayed pretreat to neutralize and rinseless as normal.

Labo has said it is fine with other rinseless other than Preludio.


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[Klasse Act]

I’d recommend getting the Acidic too. You’re going to get mineral deposits that don’t form in waterspots.

Acidic was also good at melting Tar and tree sap before the rinseless for me.

I mixed up 11oz in a bottle with Talco trigger. You are not going to drench like normal pretreat.

I used maybe 3rd of bottle to get bottle rockers on side and rear side. So 4 oz maybe

Sprayed anything that looked goopy with acidic. Let dwell 5 minutes. Then I used DiY and sprayed pretreat to neutralize and rinseless as normal.

Labo has said it is fine with other rinseless other than Preludio.


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Sounds like you use it the way I'll be using it. From the sounds of it ACIDIC will be used less often and in my case a coating reset from a RW standpoint, never thought I'd be doing this other than using Bilt-Hamber Touchless

When using ACIDIC imagine this combo:

1. ACIDIC pre-treat for a couple minutes

2. Feynlab RW v3 as the finishing product

3. Complete reset of my coated finish️

Step #2 could even be "toned down" a bit as well, so like 1 oz instead of 1.5 to 3.5 gallons

Can't believe I stepped into THIS arena but then again another new vehicle can do this to yah! So Crack, have you just used ACIDIC or Alkaline as a NORMAL RW, i.e. how we use others in a 2BM or GD method

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[Coatingsarecrack]

Sounds like you use it the way I'll be using it. From the sounds of it ACIDIC will be used less often and in my case a coating reset from a RW standpoint, never thought I'd be doing this other than using Bilt-Hamber Touchless

When using ACIDIC imagine this combo:

1. ACIDIC pre-treat for a couple minutes

2. Feynlab RW v3 as the finishing product

3. Complete reset of my coated finish️

Step #2 could even be "toned down" a bit as well, so like 1 oz instead of 1.5 to 3.5 gallons

Can't believe I stepped into THIS arena but then again another new vehicle can do this to yah! So Crack, have you just used ACIDIC or Alkaline as a NORMAL RW, i.e. how we use others in a 2BM or GD method

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Not sure what you mean normal but I have used it twice in this way.
I use acidic where ever I would see coating degradation or thicker contaminants.

Alkaline on really dirty area like lowers rockers and rear. Let dwell. Pretreat after dwell (3-5 mins) and rinseless with sponge on cleaner areas. I use MF on dirty area’s GD method.


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[Klasse Act]

Not sure what you mean normal but I have used it twice in this way.
I use acidic where ever I would see coating degradation or thicker contaminants.

Alkaline on really dirty area like lowers rockers and rear. Let dwell. Pretreat after dwell (3-5 mins) and rinseless with sponge on cleaner areas. I use MF on dirty area’s GD method.


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Here's what I mean by "normal", can I use it as a normal RW? If so, what ratio

I really see myself using this as the pre-treat it's meant to be, so the front end, lower panels and rear end. With my fresh ADS Quartz Coating I'm going to try a lighter ratio at first, then use one of my dozen RW's to finish it off like I normally do

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[Coatingsarecrack]

Here's what I mean by "normal", can I use it as a normal RW? If so, what ratio

I really see myself using this as the pre-treat it's meant to be, so the front end, lower panels and rear end. With my fresh ADS Quartz Coating I'm going to try a lighter ratio at first, then use one of my dozen RW's to finish it off like I normally do

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I don’t think Preludio can be used as a rinseless by itself. My understanding is a pretreat for rinsless where the ph neutral wash will neutralize it.


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[Hobbit]

About 4min in he uses preludio acidic on PPF.

 

[Hobbit]

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I didn't realize Reggy had his own channel.

 

[CleanIT]

The only Labo product I tried was Primus 2.0. I loved it. Smelled great, cleaned well in both bucket and as a pre-wash. Love that it's very safe too.

I'm out of Reset and only have Descale on hand and Ech20. I'm considering jumping to something else. Can Coat has fallen off the last few weeks.

I've thought about trying some Adam's or Labo products this time. Just to change things up a bit. Not sure I will.

If I went the Labo route I'd get Primus 2.0 which would cover bucket and pre-wash. I'd then get an acidic wash and Idrosave. I could clean car then use Idrosave as a QD/drying aid and be good to go and always have protection.

Other products I've considered are Collinte Beadcoat and the Adam's Graphene Spray.