Looking for Advice on Serious Waterspots

[VictoryRed08]

Looking for Advice on Serious Waterspots


Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've come from the Corvette Forum because I heard this is where to to ask the experts on paint care

So this is my problem...

I recently moved to Vegas. I had my 2008 Corvette shipped in a closed container. It was several days after it was delivered before I could pick it up. During that time it rained. The rain deposited a lot of dirt and sand on the car. It then baked in 110 degree heat for several days. It is now covered with indestructible waterspots. From doing a search on these forums for waterspots, I believe they are Type II. I tried several different non-abrasive techniques to get them out. Nothing worked.

I took the car to a detail shop in town. They performed a test on a small section of the hood. I watched one of the technicians buff it with a power orbital tool for over 15 minutes. He improved the finish, but the spots didn't come out completely. He told me he could get it out with a full paint restoration, which would cost me almost $900. Which I think is kind of pricey. The general consensus on the Corvette Forum was that is a ridiculous amount of money.

I called several paint and body shops, including Count's Kustoms here in Vegas. All of them said they would use a color sand and polish to fix the paint. One of the shops was extremely professional and knowledgeable. They answered my concerns about the process and assured me they would do it right. They quoted me $500. A number of people on the Corvette Forum told me a color sand is not what I should do. Others said they've seen color sanding produce excellent results.

So I'm kind of at a loss. I want this fixed, and I want it fixed properly the first time. The shop that quoted me $500 for a color sand cautioned me in a worst-case scenario, a re-painting may be required. I don't necessarily mind paying a lot to get it fixed, but I want a competitive price and quality work.

I have no experience with using power tools to buff paint, and I'm not going to experiment for the first time on my $50K car that was previously in pristine condition. It is a low-mileage, garage kept vehicle that was never previously exposed to inclement weather.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to provide all of the necessary information so that I could get the best possible advice. I would be very grateful for whatever advice you can give. Thank you in advance. I appreciate your time.

 

[ReflectiveAuto]

I am waiting for Mike to chime in. Im surprised your vette was not covered in the container during the trip.

 

[VictoryRed08]

I am waiting for Mike to chime in. Im surprised your vette was not covered in the container during the trip.

It was covered while it was being transported. Unfortunately I couldn't pick it up for several days after it was delivered. During that time it was parked outside, and that's when it rained.

 

[Anthony Onorato]

I've used Chemical Guys Water Spot Remover with great success! I highly suggest it, it's very safe to use and applied by hand! Check it out for sure.

 

[jackychai]

i like the term indestructible... lol.
i have a bottle of cg waters remove. have not have a chance to try on cars yet. but i try it on glass of my fish tank where there are tones of mineral deposit which most can't be wiped off. the cg waterspot remover did a good enough job.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using AG Online

 

[FUNX650]

It is now covered with indestructible waterspots. From doing a search on these forums for waterspots, I believe they are Type II. I tried several different non-abrasive techniques to get them out. Nothing worked.

-First: Welcome to AGO!

-Secondly: Sorry to hear of this misfortune.


-Since you've stated you've already done the "AGO search-feature", you're probably aware of certain Mike Phillips articles dealing with waterspots.

If your waterspots are indeed Type II, then this information, excerpted from said MP-articles may be of assistance:

In order to remove a Type II water spot you must ABRADE the surrounding paint until the uppers surface of the paint is equal to the lowest depth to the water spot etching you're trying to remove.

Usually everyone wishes and hopes for the easy way out... no one wants to find out they have to compound every affected panel to remove little annoying round etchings.

I took the car to a detail shop in town. They performed a test on a small section of the hood. I watched one of the technicians buff it with a power orbital tool for over 15 minutes. He improved the finish, but the spots didn't come out completely. He told me he could get it out with a full paint restoration, which would cost me almost $900. Which I think is kind of pricey. The general consensus on the Corvette Forum was that is a ridiculous amount of money.

-I truly realize the 'hardness' of Corvette CC, but 15 minutes seems a rather long time period to be buffing on one small section of the hood...IMO.

It was wise to seek out a different "detailer"...Also, IMO.

I called several paint and body shops, including Count's Kustoms here in Vegas. All of them said they would use a color sand and polish to fix the paint. One of the shops was extremely professional and knowledgeable. They answered my concerns about the process and assured me they would do it right. They quoted me $500. A number of people on the Corvette Forum told me a color sand is not what I should do. Others said they've seen color sanding produce excellent results.

So I'm kind of at a loss. I want this fixed, and I want it fixed properly the first time. The shop that quoted me $500 for a color sand cautioned me in a worst-case scenario, a re-painting may be required. I don't necessarily mind paying a lot to get it fixed, but I want a competitive price and quality work.

-The: "Price-of-Quality" may not always be determinate of a person's Professionalism.
Be wary that you're a "new kid in town"...Just saying.

-Also...Ever price a Corvette re-spray?!?!

I have no experience with using power tools to buff paint, and I'm not going to experiment for the first time on my $50K car that was previously in pristine condition. It is a low-mileage, garage kept vehicle that was never previously exposed to inclement weather.

-Staying tuned to the AGO forum more than likely will relieve your power-tools anxiety!!


-Now...I could speculate the resolution to your waterspot-issue
'til Kingdom come; but if you have the time...

Give AGO forum member Joe@Superior Shine a PM...
If he's readily available, it'd be well worth the effort to drive down to Covina, California.
[It's only 4 hours away (around 3 hrs. in your Corvette )].

-Good Luck in bringing your Corvette back to a pristine condition!



Bob

As a foot-note: S.E.M.A. is in Las Vegas pretty soon.
AGO (including Mike Phillips) has a booth...A PM to Mr. Phillips may prove to be beneficial.

 

[vet]

Welcome! I'm sure you'll find some answers to your problem here. I have zero experience with Corvettes, so I can't give you advice.

 

[tuscarora dave]

Those who would scoff at a $900 price tag to remedy an "over the entire car" type 2 water spot etching situation on super hard Corvette paint Have likely never gone through the necessary repair procedure themselves, and really don't understand the work involved in doing such a job correctly.

Having done several Corvettes now for Corvettes at Carlisle, I am in the know. I'd be at more than $1000 to do a job like that on a later model Corvette.

I'd personally suggest steering clear of anyone offering to do it for $500 as it leads me to believe they don't really know what they are getting into.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[VictoryRed08]

Thanks for the feedback. Much appreciated. As far as spray-on/wipe-off solutions go, believe me when I tell you these waterspots are well etched into the paint. As I said, I tried several non-abrasive techniques--many of which I was told would get results--and they didn't work. This is beyond my skills to fix, and I need professional help.

-I truly realize the 'hardness' of Corvette CC, but 15 minutes seems a rather long time period to be buffing on one small section of the hood...IMO.

It was wise to seek out a different "detailer"...Also, IMO.


-Also...Ever price a Corvette re-spray?!?!



-Staying tuned to the AGO forum more than likely will relieve your power-tools anxiety!!


-Good Luck in bringing your Corvette back to a pristine condition!



Bob

As a foot-note: S.E.M.A. is in Las Vegas pretty soon.
AGO (including Mike Phillips) has a booth...A PM to Mr. Phillips may prove to be beneficial.

It may not have been fifteen minutes that he worked on it. But it was a good length of time. And even then it didn't completely fix the problem.

I have not priced a re-spray. I'd like to avoid getting it completely re-painted if I can. And maybe at some point (after lurking on this forum for a while) I may give the power tools a hand myself. Right now I just want to get this fixed. I will try giving Mr Phillips a buzz. Thanks so much for the advice.

What I'm really looking for right now is what technique should be used to correct this? I know the simply easy stuff is not going to work. It's been tried. The shops I've spoken to have all said they'd use a color sand. But when I mentioned this on the Corvette Forum a number of people sand I shouldn't do that.

In addition to what technique should be used, I'd also like to know roughly what I should be paying. Thanks again!

 

[FUNX650]

This is beyond my skills to fix, and I need professional help.

Then I'm in total agreement with Dave's below posting:

to remedy an "over the entire car" type 2 water spot etching situation on super hard Corvette paint Have likely never gone through the necessary repair procedure themselves, and really don't understand the work involved in doing such a job correctly.

The shops I've spoken to have all said they'd use a color sand. But when I mentioned this on the Corvette Forum a number of people sand I shouldn't do that.


Color-sanding/wet-sanding ...is...IMHO...a "very aggressive-method" that may remove more CC than you desire---or your vehicle even needs;
but that will be the call of a professional detailer---after he/she has tried other less-aggressive methods/steps...
such as compounding/polishing...first and foremost.

In addition to what technique should be used, I'd also like to know roughly what I should be paying.
Thanks again!

Again from Dave's posting:

Having done several Corvettes now for Corvettes at Carlisle, I am in the know. I'd be at more than $1000 to do a job like that on a later model Corvette.

Have you considered this?:

Give AGO forum member Joe@Superior Shine a PM...

Bob

 

[VictoryRed08]

Have you considered this?:




Bob

Okay good stuff. It's kind of hard to determine what to do on this problem. Because all the professionals at the shops I've talked to have said color sand. But that's why I'm trying to do the research

I sent Joe@Superior Shine a message. Thanks!

 

[wangotango]

I recently posted about a guy who wants to remove hard water spots from his 2011 Accord, not a 'vette, but it's a very nice car (red) and his wife baby's it.
Not as the same situation but this may help somewhere:

She washes it probly twice a week and randomly they throw some over-the-counter wax product on it. Where she parks at work sprinklers hit it sometimes and bang, here come the spots. They have now waxed over the spots repeatedly.
They brough it to me and I used Griot's Garage Paint Prep to remove any protection froam a small area. I worked it in with my fingers and rinsed off (see my post on GG Paint Prep observations). Now you have only the paint and whatever is on the paint in front of you. I used a couple polishing compounds (going from least to more agressive) until I found one that would remove the spots. Ok now I have one that will remove the spots. Now what????

The paint must be completely cleaned of any built up products (wax, sealants, etc.) that are covering the spots. The paint is then polished/compounded to remove spots. The paint is then polished to retrieve gloss and shine. Then a proper protection applied.

Not the exact scenario but maybe some help.

It's interesting how customers tell me "yeah, go ahead and polish it up, remove all the scratches, and wax it like a mofo". They have just paid for a simple exterior one-step polish seal but they are expecting me to spend the entire day on it. Oh and did I mention it's 9:30 and they'll be coming to pick it up at noon. The way they've brought it in means I'll have to take an hour just to get it clean enough to try to start making it look good.

I wish you luck with your Corvette and I think you'll find a price you can live with but it will be time consuming to do it right.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Hi VictoryRed08,

I feel your pain t....


Just like to first point out what a great forum community this is! New guy joins, has a dilemma and gets a real warm welcome, with incredibly detailed and helpful replies in a friendly environment reflecting the character of our forum members.

:dblthumb2:



Back on topic, I feel your pain. Type II Water Spots are the worst or in the top 3 for worst problems to have with paint.

I'll type some more on this later but real quick I want to post two things,

1. The problem with wetsanding a factory finish is that factory paint is already thin. That's a fact. So here's the problem with wetsanding factory paint,

1. Sanding removes a measurable layer of paint
2. Compounding removes a measurable layer of paint
3. Using any of these will remove something off the surface; Medium Cut Polish, Fine Cut Polish, Ultra Fine Cut Polish

Assuming the person doing the work is experienced, skilled AND talented, you know, actually good at this, (it's a lot of hard work), and everything goes right, that is no burn-throughs. Even if everything goes right and no mistakes are made, you will now have thinner paint. How thin? Who knows for sure but the point is factory paint is thin to start with and even thinner after a wetsanding "process".

You need the clear layer to last over the service life of the car and thicker is better.

That said, if it bugs you it's going to take all the fun out of owning a Vette then wetsanding or even just a thorough compounding is an option. Just let us help you to get the right person using the right products.

Those who would scoff at a $900 price tag to remedy an "over the entire car" type 2 water spot etching situation on super hard Corvette paint Have likely never gone through the necessary repair procedure themselves, and really don't understand the work involved in doing such a job correctly.

I agree.

To have a true professional with a online history of proving themselves and documenting it is worth it's weight in gold. The price for doing it wrong is even higher, (for someone).

Having done several Corvettes now for Corvettes at Carlisle, I am in the know. I'd be at more than $1000 to do a job like that on a later model Corvette.

That's a good price for the owner, not only is it physically hard work but it's not at the same time mindless. The guy doing the work, if he's doing it right, has adopted the car as his own and isn't merely buffing out another car, he's buffing out something just as important as his own car and he's treating it like his own car. That just means he's focusing on the task at hand. Doing it right means looking and focusing 100% of the time when doing aggressive steps over entire cars like someone's pride and joy.

I'd personally suggest steering clear of anyone offering to do it for $500 as it leads me to believe they don't really know what they are getting into.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree.

Either they have know idea of what they're doing or getting into, (that's actually two things), or they do and they're probably not going to do it the same way that someone's that's qualified would do it.


For example, a very safe approach using the least aggressive products for the job would be to machine dampsand it using 3M #5000 discs and they're not the least expensive option, just the best.


3M Trizact 3 Inch 5000 Grit Foam Disc 30362, sanding discs, 3m spot repair discs

3M Trizact 5 Inch 5000 Grit Foam Disc 30562, 3m spot repair discs, 3m sanding discs

3M Trizact 6 Inch 5000 Grit Foam Discs 30662, 3m spot repair discs, sanding discs


Plus a "quality" compound, plus quality wool pads and then quality polishes and foam pads plus multiple tools for applying these things plus the LSP to seal the paint.

Plus the basics, quality microfiber towels for example and some kind of though and care put into them especially as the person doing the work gets to the last machine step and the application of wax, a sealant or a coating.


Yeah, there's a couple of different ways to buff out a Corvette to remove Type II Water Spots and because factory paint is thin, you really want to make sure it's done right the first time by whoever does the work.


Here on the forum we can do two things,

1. Help you to do it yourself.

2. Help you to find someone that can do it for you and do it right the first time.



Welcome to Autogeek Online!


:welcome:

 

[RoadRageDetail]

I've dealt with my fair share of water spots. Back when I was a trainer for a large used car retail chain, I came across an HHR that I thought would be important to document. It took about four hours for a new guy I was training to clear up the hood by itself. We only stopped for specific directions and technique guidece.

We used 3m's perfect it series Rubbing Compound w/ braided wool pads, Machine Polish w/ yellow foam pads and Ultrafine Machine Polish w/ black foam pads paired with a Makita 9227c rotary.

Before:

After compound and first polish (we backed up and knocked out a couple areas that still needed help but it was looking good so far.

Done.

No sanding needed. Keep talking to people. If they suggest wet sanding or sit back scratching their heads, move along. I second talking to Joe at Superior Shine, I'm confident that he can help. Most importantly, if he can't, he will be up front and honest with you about it.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Actually, a person could tackle this themselves using only a PC style DA Polisher and a compound like M105. This would be a slower way to do it but a very safe way to do it while keeping paint temperatures down.

Like RoadRageDetail, I've compounded out Type II water spots before and just about any quality compound with a wool pad on a rotary buffer will remove them. You just want to be sure that the follow-up steps don't leave swirls in the paint.

Kind of working backwards to remove water spots but then leave rotary buffer swirls in their place. That's why you want to make sure the person doing the work "really" knows what they are doing.

We have a number of forum members that live in Las Vegas, one that comes to mind is Vegas Transplant that could probably lend a helping hand.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/members/vegas-transplant.html


If you can get Joe aka Superior Shine to buff out your car you can rest assured it will be done correctly.


Check your PM's too...

 

[FUNX650]

We have a number of forum members that live in Las Vegas, one that comes to mind is Vegas Transplant that could probably lend a helping hand.

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/members/vegas-transplant.html

I may be mistaken, Mike...But I believe Vegas Transplant (VT) now lives in the
D.C. Metro area...But I'd bet he'd know which "Vegas-Detailer" to recommend, if any.



Bob

 

[VictoryRed08]

Thanks so much for all the advice. There's obviously a lot of very knowledgeable people on these forums, which is what I was looking for. At this point I need to find a pro in the Vegas area that can take care of this for me. I'll go out of town if absolutely necessary but I'd like to keep it local if I can.

 

[VictoryRed08]

I sent a PM to Vegas Transplant. Maybe he can point me in the right direction.

 

[Vegas Transplant]

Sorry for my absence VR08 - busy tying up some loose ends here in Md. Saw your message on yahoo mail.

*The only advice that I can give is that much of Vegas soil is comprised of calcite - the stuff that makes the cliff walls around Hoover Dam white.

* I have seen the effects of rain/dust and the waterpots that occur in Clark County.. They are a PITA, but readily removed with polishing...even hard CC.

My guess is if a hand buffed for 15 minutes with no discernable difference...the vehicle was in the proximity of landscape sprinklers and wind...Pics would be ideal...and someone is passing the buck. Examine closely to see if the spots are raised, rather than etched.

If the original story of rain and dust is true, then look around at other vehicles...especially black limos, which can be found everywhere.

There is a forum member from North Town...Nellis area...BMW avatar, but no name comes to mind. I will look at the whats your real name thread and see if I can point him out.
He is a body shop guy I do believe.

All the detailers that I know in Vegas are either production, or hack...sorry! Either way they'll take you for a ride as they always reach for the Megs WSR first, then acid, then compound/wool...seems to be the norm for my old circles.

Happy detailing...:autowash:

BTW: I agree with not only pricing as mentioned by TD, but also RoadRage, and the time involved...aint no walk in the park.

EDIT: As FUNX725 mentioned...+1 on Joe@SuperiorShine.

[video=youtube_share;RA4c4Ml2DbE"]A week with Superior Shine Auto Detailing! - YouTube[/video]

 

[VictoryRed08]

It's not sounding like I've got a lot of options here. I don't seem to be any closer to finding an answer to this problem...

I'll see if I can snap some pix.