Meguires g110v2

[john b]

I think this is why many just go with the Griot's. It has a warranty to rely on just in case. I still think there is a market for a reliable, well engineered DA for $199 that is designed better than the current non-forced DA's. The extra engineering would offset the need for a lifetime warranty just as the Flex accomplishes.

i totaly agree,given how reliable the porter cables have been there is a whole market out there for them.i dont understand why pc does not jump at the oppurtunuty.theres folks here that have there pc for 14 yrs plus.

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

It seems to me the market won't support that. I think there are two reasons, one is that likely their is some price ceiling that people don't want to exceed for these "entry level" polishers, and second that the manufacturers can't acheive that price without going to the Chinese contract mfg. The basic PC sells a lot more units as a sander than as a polisher, which is how Porter Cable is able to acheive the price point they do.

What I'm trying to say is that for every forum member there are probably 4-5 people who come to the AG site and buy a polisher and perhaps never use it much, and they are not going to pay the $199. I agree it would be great to have that option for a quality DA, but my take is the slice of the market is so small between the other DA's and the Flex it won't support the development and small-lot manufacturing of the machine.

You're always logical. rops:

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I agree. I don't think that production costs are any lower in Germany than here. Any new manufacturing jobs in the US would help all of us!!

I wonder what the market really is? I know AG ran a contest here to guess how many...what were they, Flex's or PC's...that were in a picture of inventory being brought in for Christmas. I think it was about a thousand pieces...but you know how retail is, the market for the whole year might only be 3000 pieces.

Those pictures that Mike took at the Flex plant show a production line, but it seemed more of a batch line than a "mass production" line; maybe he knows how many 3401's they make a year.

 

[DaveT435]

I wonder what the market really is? I know AG ran a contest here to guess how many...what were they, Flex's or PC's...that were in a picture of inventory being brought in for Christmas. I think it was about a thousand pieces...but you know how retail is, the market for the whole year might only be 3000 pieces.

Those pictures that Mike took at the Flex plant show a production line, but it seemed more of a batch line than a "mass production" line; maybe he knows how many 3401's they make a year.

True...but if you take a company like PC I wouldn't think it would be that much of an investment to start producing a direct drive machine. As an added item not as replacement to their current tool. The entry level market is pretty full so margins are limited. Not much competition in the direct drive market. If they could make three times the profit per unit and sell them at 199.00 I would think it would be a worth while venture.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

True...but if you take a company like PC I wouldn't think it would be that much of an investment to start producing a direct drive machine.

Huh?? It would be a subtantial investment to design and tool a style of machine they don't even make now. Porter Cable is owned by Black & Decker, and my guess is they make so many tools in a year that the entire number of tools Flex makes in a year isn't even of any interest to them. If you don't know how big a company B&D/PC is, look here: Contact Us | Stanley Black & Decker .

Today at a company like that, it's all about dollars and sense. If the dollars aren't there, there isn't any sense in doing it.

As was suggested earlier in the thread, if the market was there, Meguiar's/Griot's would have gone to PC for the thing in the first place, I mean heck, Meguiar's used to sell badge-engineered PC's, you think they didn't ask PC first before they went off and had theirs made in China? This is really a niche market which is why you have the players in it the way they are, the Chinese contract-manufactured stuff vs. the expensive German Flex/Festool etc. PC is only in it because they can take their sander and swap the backing plate out for that white pad and put another number on the box. As Mike Phillips suggested somewhere here, it was probably Meguiar's that had the idea to use the 7424 as a car polisher in the first place.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

To get this thread back on topic (sort of), I am disappointed that there still seem to be so many problems with the G110. I had hoped the V2 had corrected them but it doesn't look that way.

 

[DaveT435]

To get this thread back on topic (sort of), I am disappointed that there still seem to be so many problems with the G110. I had hoped the V2 had corrected them but it doesn't look that way.

I didn't realize PC was B&D. Yes that big a company makes a big difference. Yes I guess the cord problem has been going on for a while. The problem with replacing the brushes is going to be a nightmare down the road. Either the manufacturer is betting most of these machines will never get to the point where the brushes need to be replaced...or by the time they need to be replaced they will be out of warranty. I know pennies add up when your talking millions of units...but the way they made that was crazy. A small piece of dowel and some duct tape and people will be able to keep them going. lol But it shouldn't come to that.

 

[umi000]

To get this thread back on topic (sort of), I am disappointed that there still seem to be so many problems with the G110. I had hoped the V2 had corrected them but it doesn't look that way.

Just to add a few more data points, I got my G110v2 this November. I've used it about five or six times, including some compounding of a repainted panel, and I've not had any issues. Same story for a friend who got his last September. So they're not all defective out of the box

 

[Danube]

haven't heard many complaints ... if you ordered here why not call client support on Monday to try and resolve.

Are you serious? :spam4:

Go to MOL and see for yourself what is the percentage of faulty G110V1,2. Peps are replacing them all the time .. until they give up.

Went thru 9 Meguiar's in 2 months. Will never buy another,even though my good friend works for them. They did replace all at no charge,but the last replacement was a pc. I have a 12 year old pc that works great. The new pc does not work well with any pads over 5 1/2 inch. I would go griots or shurhold.wonderfull machines

You are not alone, I've read of other worse scenarios then yours. The pointy is not to get replacement but for Mequiars to produce a better quality polishers then they do at present.

rops:

 

[Old Tiger]

Just to add a few more data points, I got my G110v2 this November. I've used it about five or six times, including some compounding of a repainted panel, and I've not had any issues. Same story for a friend who got his last September. So they're not all defective out of the box

You got V2 of V2. So did I. I have had no prroblems so far. I know this fixed the cord issue. Did it fix anything else?

 

[DaveT435]

I wasn't implying that they are all bad. As I mentioned with any manufactured product there is going to be a certain percentage of defective ones. It sounds like the problem with mine was a cord issue. I can't say that for sure though. Meguires is a name that is associated with quality. I was really surprised when I had problems...especially this early on. The issue with the brush cover screws...I guess time will tell...

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

As was suggested earlier in the thread, if the market was there, Meguiar's/Griot's would have gone to PC for the thing in the first place, I mean heck, Meguiar's used to sell badge-engineered PC's, you think they didn't ask PC first before they went off and had theirs made in China?

I don't know all the behind the scenes activity that took place but really what it came down to is there was no profit in purchasing, reselling and warrantying Porter Cable units. Basically dollars trading dollars.

PC is only in it because they can take their sander and swap the backing plate out for that white pad and put another number on the box.

As Mike Phillips suggested somewhere here, it was probably Meguiar's that had the idea to use the 7424 as a car polisher in the first place.

Correct and part of that was because Meguiar's already made a pad that fit this tool, no other company that I know back to the 1970's was selling a foam pad that fit a air powered DA Sander AND was already calling on body shops selling paint sanding and buffing supplies.

Because there's a lot of people on forums like this that don't know Meguiar's history, they started out manufacturing furniture polish in 1901 but when the automobile thingy started to catch on, someone at the company in the early 1900's saw there was going to be a strong market for automotive polishes, not just furniture polishes and the direction Meguiar's went was towards the professional or industrial side of the market, not the Consumer or even Detailer side of the market, that means body shop tools.

And the W-6000 was just one skew in their Professional Line.


Hang on... I just happen to have a W-6000 from my collection of antique car waxes in my office.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Because there's a lot of people on forums like this that don't know Meguiar's history, they started out manufacturing furniture polish in 1901 but when the automobile thingy started to catch on, someone at the company in the early 1900's saw there was going to be a strong market for automotive polishes, not just furniture polishes

Wasn't some of that because cars frequently had (exterior) wood on them, back in the day?

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Wasn't some of that because cars frequently had (exterior) wood on them, back in the day?

Yes, kind of... the reason Meguiar's was able to transition from making furniture cleaner and polish to making automobile cleaner and polish was because in the early days of car manufacture there were no major car paint manufactures, (car specific), because cars didn't exist.

Horses and trains existed.

When Henry Ford, the Dodge Brothers, Chevrolet etc. started manufacture automobiles, they borrowed the coating technology being used on furniture for their cars. A lot of wood was used in early car bodies, both inside and outside.

Shellac, Varnish and Lacquer were used to keep the wood from rotting and steel from rusting and... to add shine and beauty to the cars themselves.

Here's the deal, since the early car coatings were the same types of coating used on furniture, this means you could take your furniture polish out into the garage or barn and polish the Model T and get the same great results.

That's the nutshell version, I also explain this in the introduction of my how-to book.



Paperback

 

[DaveT435]

Did those early pads use the same DA glue as the sanding discs we used in auto body back in the 70's??

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

As Mike Phillips suggested somewhere here, it was probably Meguiar's that had the idea to use the 7424 as a car polisher in the first place.

Here's a few pics that document that...

In the below picture is a new, never before used W-6000 6" Dual Action Buffing Pad from the late 90's, these were around back to the 1980's and possibly longer, I don't know it's hard to find anyone alive that remembers that you can talk to.

Note the wording states you can turn any dual action sander into a dual action polisher...

For those that might not know, this is an air powered, DA Sander, commonly used on body shops to sand paint, primer and bondo. ALL body shops have these air powered DUAL ACTION sanders that use a 5/16 spindle to hold a backing plate.

The W-6000 has a 5/16" threaded stud affixed to the plastic backing plate...

Here it is attached...

Here it is hooked up to an air line...

And here I am running the DA Sander/Polisher over the trunk lid of a Honda...

Then sometime in the late 1980's or early 1990's someone discovered that the pad Meguiar's sold for air powered DA Sanders would fit and work on a Porter Cable DA Sander.

Note when I typed, fit and work, that's two things, there are lots of electric DA Sanders, but most won't power a foam pad, only a thin sanding disc.

And there you go... Meguiar's, a company already selling and teaching people in the body shop industry how to finish out swirl-free on fresh paint after first using a rotary buffer introduced the same pad to the enthusiast or consumer world using a tool that the average person can plug into an electrical outlet in their garage.

The average person doesn't own an air compressor large enough to power an air powered DA Sander as a polisher around an entire car. See my article below...

Then somewhere along the line Porter Cable included a copy of the Meguiar's W-6000 DA Pad in the box and called their DA Wood Sander a DA Polisher.

Try to find that little tidbit of paint polishing history on any other detailing discussion forum.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

To related articles,

One documents the PC as a Sander....

The Free Floating Spindle Bearing Assembly - The Story Behind The Story...


Enter the Porter Cable DA Sander
That's right, I said sander! The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander is the tool that became the Tipping Point that was the driving force behind the average person switching from working by hand to working by machine.


The Porter Cable Dual Action Sander with Wood Dust Collecting Attachment for Sanding Wood

The other shares the air powered DA Sander as a Paint Polisher...


Can an air-powered DA Sander be used to polish paint?

 

[DaveT435]

Interesting history Mike. I used DA sanders in the late 70's. The ones I used were bigger and bulkier than the one you have there...had the trigger mechanism for allowing the air to flow through (or on off switch)

 

[Bunky]

It seems to me the market won't support that. I think there are two reasons, one is that likely their is some price ceiling that people don't want to exceed for these "entry level" polishers, and second that the manufacturers can't acheive that price without going to the Chinese contract mfg. The basic PC sells a lot more units as a sander than as a polisher, which is how Porter Cable is able to acheive the price point they do.

I believe no one wants to spend the money to engineer one to find out if there is a market since it requires design skills, testing, and associated manufacturing tooling costs. The question is how large if the opportunity so no one is in the mood to risk the expense to engineer a better product.

It is too easy to go to China to get one from a number of places, make some minor tweaks, and then sell it. The problem with buying from China is if you do not get involved in the engineering and manufacturing of the product then you will not likely get the quality you want.

 

[Toy_Cam_Ed]

The Griot's DA these days does not rotate the pad under pressure any better than the PCXP. If I had no other choices, I'd buy the PCXP.

But doesn't a lifetime warranty count for anything?