MF Pad System...Devil's Advocate Thread

If I run into a car that I know is going to be difficult and the owner is very demanding, I wouldn't waste my time on neither Surbufs or this new system. I would just go straight for the wool and call it a day :buffing:

But this product is not intended to replace the rotary. It may produce rotary-like results, but it's not a direct replacement. So who is the intended target for this product? The average Joe? If that's the case then he now has a tool that can produce rotary-like results without the dangers of using a rotary. This product also sounds promising for a amateurs, like myself, that mostly do 2-step corrections.



General question: If we don't have access to compressed air, how many pads should we have to do an entire car?
 
This is where you and maybe ALOT of others differ from my workflow. I grab the sandpaper(3000 Trizact usually) and quickly level the finish of all possible defects. I then use my DA/M105 for the win. :buffing: :pc7424: . You can wool til the cows fly but you're not duplicating a sanded finish.

Case in point (prior to DA MF system mind you):

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Rotary = :nomore:

And that's how it's done...
 
But this product is not intended to replace the rotary. It may produce rotary-like results, but it's not a direct replacement. So who is the intended target for this product? The average Joe? If that's the case then he now has a tool that can produce rotary-like results without the dangers of using a rotary. This product also sounds promising for a amateurs, like myself, that mostly do 2-step corrections.



General question: If we don't have access to compressed air, how many pads should we have to do an entire car?

I would just use the pad brush and keep an eye on the polishing results. If you start to see the finish degrading because the pads are becoming to dirty then I'd switch to a new pad. The condition of the paint and size of vehicle would be a factor too.

2-4 would be a good general answer though. ;)
 
But this product is not intended to replace the rotary. It may produce rotary-like results, but it's not a direct replacement. So who is the intended target for this product? The average Joe? If that's the case then he now has a tool that can produce rotary-like results without the dangers of using a rotary. This product also sounds promising for a amateurs, like myself, that mostly do 2-step corrections.

I understand your concerns, but if these pads rank somewhere between foam and Surbufs, then IMO they have no place in my arsenal

Furthermore, I keep hearing ppl state these pads provide a Ratary type finish, but yet, the same posters will later state they are not intended to replace the Ratory. What is it that I'm missing here. Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me
 
I understand your concerns, but if these pads rank somewhere between foam and Surbufs, then IMO they have no place in my arsenal

Furthermore, I keep hearing ppl state these pads provide a Ratary type finish, but yet, the same posters will later state they are not intended to replace the Ratory. What is it that I'm missing here. Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me

Regarding the double talk, I dont get that either.

Which is it and it cannot be both????
 
General question: If we don't have access to compressed air, how many pads should we have to do an entire car?

Good question that I'm not quite sure about? I many times blow out my pad multiple times throughout the buffing cycle (pass), so for me I couldn't live without air. With foam I usually swapped pads every other average sized panel seeing that they tend to load up on product quickly and don't clean as well. With the MF pads, their cleaning characteristics are totally different (better) and I'd take an educated guess that you could stretch that out double by using just a brush if not more.

If you have a leaf blower you can brush and blow at the same time and somewhat duplicate the effect.
 
This is where you and maybe ALOT of others differ from my workflow. I grab the sandpaper(3000 Trizact usually) and quickly level the finish of all possible defects. I then use my DA/M105 for the win. :buffing: :pc7424: . You can wool til the cows fly but you're not duplicating a sanded finish.

Case in point (prior to DA MF system mind you):

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Can you remove deep scratches, orange peel or trash in the clear using 3000 grit?

Are you saying that a Ratory can't remove sanding marks? I'm really confused as to exactly what your point is David

I would love to view your work in person sometime. Pictures really don't impress me
 
I understand your concerns, but if these pads rank somewhere between foam and Surbufs, then IMO they have no place in my arsenal

Furthermore, I keep hearing ppl state these pads provide a Ratary type finish, but yet, the same posters will later state they are not intended to replace the Ratory. What is it that I'm missing here. Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me

Really Flash? Really?


Just because it can achieve rotary like results doesn't mean it's always the best tool for the job.
 
Can you remove deep scratches, orange peel or trash in the clear using 3000 grit?

Scratches and trash in the clear=Easily. Orange peel=Sure, with just a little more effort. But seeing that you are able to perform difficult corrections for demanding customers then you already know this. Right? ;)

Are you saying that a Ratory can't remove sanding marks? I'm really confused as to exactly what your point is David

I never said that nor will I ever elude to that. My point is there's more than 1 way to correct a finish. You don't need to do it with a rotary/wool like you stated.

I would love to view your work in person sometime. Pictures really don't impress me

Come a day early to DF and I'll see if I can line up a car for us to do together. Heck, you might even impress me....
 
Hopefully AG will have the new MF system available for Detail Fest goers to try out and see for themselves! :buffing:
 
I understand your concerns, but if these pads rank somewhere between foam and Surbufs, then IMO they have no place in my arsenal

That's just it though, they're supposed to cut almost as well as Surbuffs and finish almost as well as the best foam pads. All from a single pad. That is their biggest strength. Is that what you were implying? Your saying because they don't cut as well as wool, surbuff, etc., and don't finish as well as finishing pad, they have no use in your arsenal?


Furthermore, I keep hearing ppl state these pads provide a Ratary type finish, but yet, the same posters will later state they are not intended to replace the Ratory. What is it that I'm missing here. Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me

Not if you misunderstand their meaning. Rotary-like is just that, similar, not the same. Nobody has said they produce equivalent results, but instead they produce results so close to it, they are rotary-like. I see them as another tool in my arsenal, for now. However once I try them, if I can make them produce the kinds of results I like, they may become my go to pad. Compound with them, finish with whatever else works best with the paint-type I'm working with.
 
Flash,

I don't think anyone is going to give you adequate info on anything Meguiar's. You've got a hate on for them and that is fine to have your opinion. I myself will give it a whirl since they aren't that expensive. If it sucks, I go back to what I used before, if it doesn't, well then I have a new weapon in my arsenal. I will reserve my opinion on the product until I use it myself, but since the rest of my Meguiars stuff has worked great so far, I'm hoping for the best.

(by the way I had the trigger issue, just transferred to another bottle, I've had to do that on countless products from a bunch of different manufacturers, the bottles are made as cheap as possible, so I don't have much faith in original containers and sprayers anyways)
 
General question: If we don't have access to compressed air, how many pads should we have to do an entire car?

Was the recommendation earlier to clean each MF pad (w/air) between each panel?

If that's so, then you would need a minimum of eight pads, if my math is correct.

1 - Hood
1 - Trunk
4 - Fenders
2 - Two Doors
 
Was the recommendation earlier to clean each MF pad (w/air) between each panel?

If that's so, then you would need a minimum of eight pads, if my math is correct.

1 - Hood
1 - Trunk
4 - Fenders
2 - Two Doors

Rasky told me you have to only use 1 pad for the whole car with compressed air and if you use a brush then it will be more like 2-3 if I am recalling correctly.

They keep saying to make sure your pads are clean but 8 pads for one car is pretty high.
 
Spicy - thank you for starting this thread, there has been some good dialogue exchanged.

David and Chad - I respect both of your abilities, and think very highly of your work, as you always provide ample shots of the full correction process. So thank you both very much for providing your opinions on this.

Also - David, glad to see you posting here.

DLB
 
Rasky told me you have to only use 1 pad for the whole car with compressed air and if you use a brush then it will be more like 2-3 if I am recalling correctly.

They keep saying to make sure your pads are clean but 8 pads for one car is pretty high.

My pad calculations were based on not cleaning the pad (with air) but instead reaching for a clean pad for each panel.
 
OK, so I'll be the one to step in here and make some sense of everything that's going on. For the record, I am not employed by Meguiar's, or get any compensation for doing what I do with them. Nothing at all! It's no secret that I am a Meguiar's "Fanboy", but I'm also a Menzerna "Fanboy", Lake Country "fanboy", and quite a few other manufactures "Fanboy". But in the end, I use what works best for me.

#1, seems to be one of the most discussed topics, you do not NEED compressed air to clean these pads out. This is just the preferred method. You can use a towel, or a brush, or even a combination of techniques to clean out these pads on the fly. I personally have completed an entire vehicle without once using compressed air to clean the pads, just to see if the average Joe 6 pack could provide the same results. And my determination is yes, it works well. Not as good as compressed air, but they do work well enough to complete a vehicle, and provide exceptional results! So you will not need 8 pads to complete a car. That is complete nonsense!

#2, this system does not replace the rotary! Yes on some paints, it will provide rotary like results, but it will not work on every single car you work on. There is no such thing as a magical tool or product that is the answer for every single vehicle. If that was the case, there would be only one tool/product to ever buy, and 90% of the detailing companies would be out of business. Not once have I seen any tester, or anyone from Meguiar's themselves state that this is some magical product that replaces the need for a rotary. That just never happened, so please let it go for God's sake! LOL! I know he's probably tired of hearing the same thing over and over also LMAO! ;) j/k!

#3, as for the delay in production, I can't really comment on that too much. I know that I've been a member of the testing team for these pads for about 4 years now, and yes there were some failures throughout the years. There is with almost any product out there. But I know for a fact that the people responsible were out to provide the best product possible, and have(in my eyes) succeeded with that in every way! I remember one piece of the puzzle for the original pad was outstanding at paint correction, but there was just no way to make it work without a pad failure. They(Meguiar's) did everything in their power to try every combination, manufacture, and element to make that piece of the puzzle work, but it just wouldn't without having pad failures, so they had to make some changes. This in itself took quite a bit of time. But they followed up with that for so long because it worked incredible, till it failed. The new pads(production pads), are right on par with those original pads that failed. But it took some time to find a suitable replacement. This is just one of the delays that I'm aware of. Things happen guys. It's just the nature of the beast in business. Maybe Meguiar's had some failures in the past, and are doing everything possible not to have that happen again? Maybe they wanted to make sure that this new product was as perfect as they could possibly produce, before introducing it to the masses? None of us know what their thinking was, and it's foolish to guess and post publicly about what you know or would have done, because you don't know. Simple as that!



And finally, for Flash, Man you do not know me. I've never met you and aside from online discussions, I don't know you from Adam. So why is it that you have to talk down about me on an open public forum like that? There is probably a logical reason why I don't or can't be on every single forum out there, and it's probably a pretty good reason also! Maybe like I work a full time job, plus my detailing business. Maybe I work a minimum of 12-14 hour days, and just flat out don't have time to surf every single site. I shouldn't have to have my name dragged through the mud by someone like you just because I don't post here. I think that's childish on your part, and completely uncalled for. I'm almost 40 years old, don't have time for stuff like this. No where in anything I posted does it say this replaces the rotary! No where!
But I do think it's pretty funny that in your first response to this thread, you state that "I sincerely hope this thread stays on a mature enough level " and "Everyone just try to refrain from calling another posters "Yo Momma So Fat" jokes and I am confident we can get through this thing and it will prove to be a very insightfull thread", yet you are the first person to start throwing stones(at me). I don't follow your posts recently, but in years past, I've often seen that you are a very defensive person without being provoked. This being one of those times. Chill out man! We're all on the same team here, and there's absolutely no reason to be like this. We all have the same goals, and needs with our businesses, quality products that provide us with an option to give our customers(or our own vehicles) the best possible finish.
I'm not a bad guy Flash, and if you'd get to know me you'd probably figure that out. I'll do anything in the world to help someone else out. Maybe I'm taking your comments all wrong, and if I am, I apologize.

So in closing, for all you guys commenting negatively about this system, and haven't tried it yet, why don't you give it a shot and see how it works for you first, then if it doesn't work, bash away. But, you have zero evidence that this product can't or doesn't work, so give it a shot and go from there. If you don't want to give it a shot, then don't. But I have yet to meet or talk to anyone that has tried this system and not fell in love with it! It simply works, and works very well! Not on every vehicle, but it does work.


Guess that's my $0.02 worth :xyxthumbs:

Nick Chapman
 
Wow...this thread really stirred the pot. The MF pad system received as much negativity as the Lake Country 1-Pad system. It should be really interesting when people start using this system and post reviews/results.
 
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