My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

My technique concerning the 3401, Menzerna products, and Hybrid pads



Hey fellow Geekaroonies, I recently wrote out my technique when using my favorite setup. Seeing a few recent threads concerning the use of the Flex or Menzerna products prompted me to bring this in to view of others. I have copied this from my word document and pasted it here.

If you would like my word document emailed to you so you have this on file for easy reference, just send me a PM and I will send it over.


My methods when using Menzerna products, Hybrid pads, driven by the Flex XC 3401 VRG
FG400 and cutting pad speed 3-4
S4000 and polishing pad speed 4-5

When starting with a fresh new pad regardless of color choice or Menzerna selection is to first prime the pad with one mist of a pad conditioner or equivalent and then 4-6 dime sized dots of product depending on the size of the pad and area to be worked.

With the pad primed and ready to work with I set the speed dial accordingly to my options above, gently pull the trigger enough to activate the machine (basically speed 1) and do one brisk full coverage section pass in the section that I am going to work to spread the product out with only the weight of the machine.

Once the product has been spread out I squeeze the trigger fully to operate the polisher at the selected speed on the dial and start my normal routine of compounding or polishing with moderate to heavy pressure depending on what’s needed.

I also like to work Menzerna products longer such as 6-8 passes instead of the normal 4-6. When I get to the last 2 passes I ease up and only use the weight of the machine to finish.

When I am finished with the section that was just worked there should only be a very thin and clear residue left to wipe up which is a breeze to remove.

After the section was compounded or polished my method to cleaning the pad “on the fly” is to brush the face of the pad with a pad brush or mf towel while the pad is at rest. I don’t hold the brush and spin the pad against it as I feel this accelerates the wear of the pad.

When I am ready for the next section to be polished I will simply add the dimed sized drops of product without the pad conditioner as the pad has been in use and is seasoned.

Doing it this way will get me through half of a hood, a fender, a door, or trunk lid depending on panel size. After I have completed polishing half of the hood or the fender with multiple section passes I will then clean my pad in a pad washer and spin them dry on my rotary and set it aside face down on a mf towel to dry and will grab a fresh dry pad and condition it for use for the next panel.

I rotate 2-3 pads this way of the same color per compounding or polishing step to allow the others to dry while each pad is in use. This way after each panel I always have a fresh clean pad to use.

Alas, questions, comments, critiques welcomed.

 

[rms64]

Hey Mike - nice!

Thanks for making this available and sure, send it over - never can have too much info.

I hope all is well in Germany!

 

[FUNX650]

Hi Mike...

Thanks for sharing your well-devised, and well-advised, technique for these tools and products!
Takes the guesswork out of the equation.

:xyxthumbs:

Bob

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Super nice how-to article Mike....

I also like to work Menzerna products longer such as 6-8 passes instead of the normal 4-6.

When I get to the last 2 passes I ease up and only use the weight of the machine to finish.

I couldn't agree more.

In fact, this is what I do myself and share in my how-to book for all tools. I know guys that say to maintain constant firm downward pressure all the way to the end but to me that just never feels right.

Polishing paint is a craft but it's also an art form because anyone passionate about creating a truly flawless finish has to bring more to the table than just,

Step 1
Step 2
Step 3​

An artist or craftsman bring to the table the human elements of care and passion.

Caring about what you're doing and a passion to do everything just right, focusing on the task at hand and paying attention to the little things. Pouring your heart and soul into your work.

Pressing down on the polisher with firm pressure from start to finish for each pass always feels more like grinding to me than polishing paint.

I know guys can and will make an argument for never easing up on the downward pressure and if that works for them then I say go for it but it's not for me.

Anytime your abrading the paint you have two things building up on the face of the pad,

1. Spent product
2. Removed paint

The longer you buff the more of this is on the pad and the more of this is sandwiched between the paint and the pad and to forcefully press down on the buffer from start to finish for any step means forcing this gunk into the paint and that can't lead to a more refined finish.

In fact, in a perfect world after the polishing step, if a guy really wanted to perfect the finish they would wipe the paint clean, switch to an even softer pad and finer cut polish and then re-polish, starting out with some pressure to engage the abrasives with the paint so they will take little bites out of it but as you work through the process lifting and reducing pressure and doing what is called,

Polishing out...
That is using only enough pressure, sometimes the weight of the machine sometimes LESS than the weight of the machine so what's left of the pulverized, diminished abrasives, together with the foam and the action of the tool leave the least to zero imprint or mark in the paint.

Some call this jewelling.


But it certainly isn't pressing down at the end of the process in the same way you press down when doing the correction step and you're abrading off gobs of paint.

That's just my take and personal practice, everyone can find a way that works for them...


FWIW

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Hey Mike - nice!

Thanks for making this available and sure, send it over - never can have too much info.

I hope all is well in Germany!

Thank you Rob!!!

Sure thing! I know there has been quite a few threads concerning the Flex and or Menzerna questions so I wanted to get this out their for all to see.

This Autobahn over here is something else!! Imagine holding your speed legally and cruising at 120mph!!! I love it!!

Send me a PM concerning your email address....

Hi Mike...

Thanks for sharing your well-devised, and well-advised, technique for these tools and products!
Takes the guesswork out of the equation.

:xyxthumbs:

Bob

Thanks for taking the time to comment Bob!!!!

 

[Desertnate]

Is this technique universal with DAT products?

I'm branching out this spring on LC Flat pads and the Blackfire Duo. From the video's and reading I've done, they seem to recommend a similar technique.

 

[Sbmin]

Thanks Mike! Very helpful as I use the same products. One question - what size Hybrid pads are you using? I am currently using the 5" pads (and love them), but am considering trying out the 6.5".

 

[WRAPT C5Z06]

Is this technique universal with DAT products?

Yes.

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Super nice how-to article Mike....

I couldn't agree more.

FWIW

Thanks for stopping in and providing your valuable experience Mike. I agree.

Is this technique universal with DAT products?

I'm branching out this spring on LC Flat pads and the Blackfire Duo. From the video's and reading I've done, they seem to recommend a similar technique.

Yes.

I personally love the closed cell Hydro tech pads over the open cell flat pads.

Thanks Mike! Very helpful as I use the same products. One question - what size Hybrid pads are you using? I am currently using the 5" pads (and love them), but am considering trying out the 6.5".

No problem!!

I use both sizes of the Hybrid pads and switch to the necessary size depending on vehicle size. But I personally love the smaller 5" size for absolute control.

 

[281]

Excellent guide, thanks for sharing Mike!

 

[Corey@OptimalDetailing]

Thank you very much. After reading this and other articles, I'm going to try to slow my speed with my Hybrid orange pads with FG400. I've always had good results but yet to be wow'd, hopefully this will change soon!

I love this article, BTW.

 

[PreludeVTEC01]

Great advice!! Thanks for the write-up!!

 

[minorc]

Well written, thanks !

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Excellent guide, thanks for sharing Mike!

Thank you James! Glad you enjoyed.

Thank you very much. After reading this and other articles, I'm going to try to slow my speed with my Hybrid orange pads with FG400. I've always had good results but yet to be wow'd, hopefully this will change soon!

I love this article, BTW.

Great! I hope your results will improve. Keep me updated.

Great advice!! Thanks for the write-up!!

Sure thing. Your welcome.

Well written, thanks !

Thank you!

 

[DetailingNoob]

DAT and SMAT technologies only concern compound/polish products?

Does every bottle say which technology it uses? I am looking at my Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and on the back it says ''exclusive micro-abrasive technology'' So I am guessing that is SMAT?

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

DAT and SMAT technologies only concern compound/polish products?

Does every bottle say which technology it uses? I am looking at my Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and on the back it says ''exclusive micro-abrasive technology'' So I am guessing that is SMAT?

DAT and SMAT is what determines how a product handles. Knowing this before hand will save a lot of time and headache.

Menzerna is DAT based.
Meguiar's is mostly SMAT based. Some of their old stuff was DAT.

Meguiar's UC is SMAT technology.

 

[lawrenceSA]

Firstly, thanks to both Mike's. 'Smack' for creating the thread and sharing his technique, and Mr Phillips for sharing his feelings on how to 'polish out', which is something that I appreciate as I believe (certainly in my case) the 'requirement for logic to prevail' can sometimes blind us to the 'art in front of the science'

'Smack' and I are both regular Menz users and share pretty much the same thoughts on its use. One thing I have added to my 'technique' (and I admit in may be on the AR side of things) is midway during the buffing cycle (after 2 passes when doing heavy cutting, 3 after medium polishing and 4 on finishing type polishing) is to blow out the pad with compressed air.

I believe this helps to:

1.Remove the gunk from the pad (abraded paint, polish residue), aiding in ensuring you get the best possible finish from the step you are performing. This also has the potential to turn a 2-step into a 1-step, for example, FG400 finishing out 'okay' may make you reach for a refining polish, BUT if you are able to get the best out of the FG400 on the first go, you may not need to reach for something else to finish off.


2. Cool the pad down thereby reducing the risk of overheating it

Thank you very much. After reading this and other articles, I'm going to try to slow my speed with my Hybrid orange pads with FG400. I've always had good results but yet to be wow'd, hopefully this will change soon!

I love this article, BTW.

Are you referring to polisher speed, or arm speed?

I have definitely found that FG400 prefers to be worked slower than faster. It reduces dust, extends the working time and IME produces a better finish.

I also subscribe to the school of thought that a really slow arm speed when using a DA is key to being able to get decent results. I move at around 1 to 1.5"/second.

These are just my thoughts on my experiences with the products and what works for me. I hope they may be of value to someone else out there, and happily accept it may be of value to none

Happy :buffing:

 

[Eric@CherryOnTop]

Thanks for the article mike, I'm definitely going to take your advice and slow my machine down next time I use fg400. Lightening the pressure on the final few passes makes total sense too. I need the snow to go away so I can polish something


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mike@DedicatedPerfection]

Firstly, thanks to both Mike's. 'Smack' for creating the thread and sharing his technique, and Mr Phillips for sharing his feelings on how to 'polish out', which is something that I appreciate as I believe (certainly in my case) the 'requirement for logic to prevail' can sometimes blind us to the 'art in front of the science'

'Smack' and I are both regular Menz users and share pretty much the same thoughts on its use. One thing I have added to my 'technique' (and I admit in may be on the AR side of things) is midway during the buffing cycle (after 2 passes when doing heavy cutting, 3 after medium polishing and 4 on finishing type polishing) is to blow out the pad with compressed air.

I believe this helps to:

1.Remove the gunk from the pad (abraded paint, polish residue), aiding in ensuring you get the best possible finish from the step you are performing. This also has the potential to turn a 2-step into a 1-step, for example, FG400 finishing out 'okay' may make you reach for a refining polish, BUT if you are able to get the best out of the FG400 on the first go, you may not need to reach for something else to finish off.

Thanks for taking the time to chime in with your technique Lawrence!

Thanks for the article mike, I'm definitely going to take your advice and slow my machine down next time I use fg400. Lightening the pressure on the final few passes makes total sense too. I need the snow to go away so I can polish something

Sure thing Eric!

Keep me updated on how it works out for you. :xyxthumbs:

 

[Corey@OptimalDetailing]

Lawrence, I was referring to machine speed. I usually go 5-6 for both FG400 and SF4000. Im going to adjust both when doing my wifes black Trailblazer SS.