New to detailing, problem with Porter 7424 and swirls

N

nickbreedlove

New member
Joined
Feb 20, 2010
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

I am new to detailing and going on the advice of my brother, purchased a huge cartload of stuff from autogeek for detailing.

I read all instructions, watched you tube videos, and then went to work today. After spending 5 hours between washing, clay baring and attempting to wax, I'm a bit disappointed.

I washed with Armor All Wash, then did Meguiar's Clay Bar.

From there, I applied Meguiar's 105 to a lake county CCS 4" orange pad. I used a PC 7424, I worked in a nice small box size area, about 20x20. I did this area for about two minutes. Started on 3, then went up to 6 for the actual work.

Then I worked over the whole hood of the car in the same fashion.

Next, I used Meguiar's 205 on a lake county CCS 4" white pad. Again, worked in small box, did area. A lot of the spider web type scratches were gone. I was very impressed they were gone.

However, I noticed new, large swirl marks all over the hood of the car, seemingly caused by the Porter Cable 7424. All the tiny scuffs were gone, but the large swirls were new and horribly noticeable. I went over the entire process again with 105/205, more pressure with no improvement.

Then I tried to use the sealant on a blue pad hoping it would fix it--it didn't.

It's on a 2008 Honda Accord Coupe with Black paint.

Here is a link to photos during my work. (the swirls you see aren't leftover wax, they are the actual coat of the car reflecting the sun, they look white)

http://imgur.com/d0O2y.jpg
http://imgur.com/juOrX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/qGJfA.jpg
http://imgur.com/HitP2.jpg
http://imgur.com/Zj134.jpg
http://imgur.com/Yb1pu.jpg
http://imgur.com/q8bDy.jpg
http://imgur.com/yfBZH.jpg

(I can't figure out what happened here, looks like a palm print, but will not come out, have no clue how/why its there, but wasn't there before the buffing, and won't wash, come off)

The rest of the photos show the work I did just on the hood. The side panels show what it looked like before. You can enlarge them to full resolution to see the swirls. While not all visible from that angle, you can see only the ones where the sun is hitting, but trust me--there's a ton more.

I'm wondering whether I'm doing something wrong, using the wrong products, what? I'm very disappointed with the results, not sure if my hood is now damaged.

Any advice and information is very appreciated, in advance. I can purchase any products to help with this if necessary, if something else would work better.

Thanks,
Nick
 
nickbreedlove said:
Hi all,

I am new to detailing and going on the advice of my brother, purchased a huge cartload of stuff from autogeek for detailing.
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

Since this is your first post to Autogeek Online...

Welcome to Autogeek Online! :welcome:


Hang on while I carefully read through your post, off that pat though a 2' section is pretty large to carve out for swirl removal but with a 4" pad and M105 you should be able to remove most defects unless they are rally deep or a defect that is throughout the layer of paint, as in not topical.


Question: Are you working in direct sunlight on a black car?

Hang tight...

:)
 
M205 left some marks on my vertical panels of my black car, not like yours though. I was able to fix the problem by using Menzerna 85rd. It finished nicer on my car than M205 did.
 
Hey Nick,

Right now I'm at my desk, give me a call at

1-800-869-3011 x206


To discuss. I'm going to be in and out so if you can, call in the next few minutes.


Meanwhile I"m going to download your pictures to get a better look at the problem.


:)
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Hey Nick,

Right now I'm at my desk, give me a call at

1-800-869-3011 x206


To discuss. I'm going to be in and out so if you can, call in the next few minutes.


Meanwhile I"m going to download your pictures to get a better look at the problem.


:)
Click to expand...

A chance to talk one on one with the one and only Mike P?!?! Now thats love right there
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Right now I'm at my desk, give me a call at

1-800-869-3011 x206


To discuss. I'm going to be in and out so if you can, call in the next few minutes.
Click to expand...

I think that means if you really want to talk to him, you have to dial that number 206 times because Mike is such a special guy! :laughing:

Hope you get your problem figured out! :xyxthumbs:
 
Okay here's your pictures, one of them was originally 3780 pixels wide by 2912 pixels tall!

I've cropped out the fluff and resized to 800 pixels wide for use in a discussion forum.

First, you mentioned one looked like a palm print and you're correct, it's a palm print.

Original resized to 800 pixels wide
nickspictures000.jpg



With the fluff cropped out and resized to 800 pixels wide
nickspictures000a.jpg



No resizing, just a 800 pixel wide section cropped out of the original, you can easily see the lines from your skin in the palm print.
nickspictures001.jpg



The palm print can be caused by a warm or hot surface and then you placed your hand on the paint under pressure with chemicals on your hand, like acid, oils, sweat/salt plus any car care chemicals and the result is an imprint. This is likely just topical and will polish right off and probably wipe off by hand with a foam applicator pad and a polish or wax.



These look like toweling marks from wiping product off the surface. Black paint can hit temperatures over 160 degrees in direct sun easily and this is going to cause problems because your products, (liquids), are going to try to dry on the surface making wipe-off more difficult.
nickspictures002.jpg



Again, the straight line design to the marks looks like toweling marks...
nickspictures003.jpg



This looks like toweling marks at the end of your throw, that is as you wipe back and forth, at the point where yo stop moving your hand in one direction and reverse directions, that's the end of your wipe or throw and you usually have uneven/irregular pressure at this junction plus residue causing marring.
nickspictures004.jpg



These are Cobweb Swirls, a great reason to buff out your car!
nickspictures005.jpg



It looks like you're removing the cobweb swirls but inducing some toweling marks in the process...
nickspictures006.jpg


nickspictures007.jpg


nickspictures008.jpg




A few suggestions...

First, try to find a place in the shade to work on your car. Even if a product states it can be used in direct sun, it will still perform better on a cool surface in the shade.

Use the 5.0 to 6.0 speed setting to remove defects, slower speed won't keep the pad rotating so swirls won't be removed

Shrink the size of your work area down to about 20" squarish max

Don't buff to a dry buff, there should always be a wet film still on the paint, this will prevent hazing and make wipe-off easier

Always use clean, microfiber polishing cloths folded 4 ways to provide 8 sides or sections to wipe with and some cushion to spread out the pressure from your hands.

All of these things and more are covered in the new extended version Porter Cable 7424XP How-To video...





It was good talking to you on the phone, please keep us updated as to your progress...


:)
 
Thanks for all your advice and time, Mike.

I'll let you know how it goes next time I attempt to fix the swirls and re-buff. Thanks again, Nick
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
Hey Nick,

Right now I'm at my desk, give me a call at

1-800-869-3011 x206


To discuss. I'm going to be in and out so if you can, call in the next few minutes.


Meanwhile I"m going to download your pictures to get a better look at the problem.


:)
Click to expand...
Wow! Personal service from one of the planets best detailers! This is a great demonstration of why AG is the blueprint for great customer service! Way to go Mike. I hope this story has a happy ending for Nick.
 
I'd recommend some new Microfibers, what are you currently using?
 
Wow! I like the quality of answers on AutogeekOnline.net. :dblthumb2:

I have a feeling we will see some pics of a swirl free black car from Nick in the not-to-distant future. :)
 
Great detective work Mike!; ("and there you have it my dear Watson").
 
Jon,

I'm using the autogeek pack of microfibers. Ordered some new 6.5" pads and a new backing plate, hopefully will try to buff again this weekend.

:)
 
Hi all,

Thanks for your help and suggestions. Especially the personal response from Mike.

I ordered larger lake country pads, a pad washer, and a pop-up canopy to provide shade for the car.

For the hood that had swirls in it from last time, I used an orange lake country pad and 105. i still noticed swirls, which was likely. micromarring. So then I used 205 and a blue pad. it took most all of the 'swirls' away.

for the rest of the car, i used a white lake country polishing pad and meguiars ultimate compound per advice of meguiars who said that 105 was sort of overkill for the whole car. their advice was very good and it worked well.

to do the whole car and then do meguiars sealant took the better part of 8 whole hours. but the results were worth it.

all the spiderweb scratches are gone now. see attached photos.

i hope i don't have to do this for a few more years, because its a large, painful process, but results in a beautiful car.

the before and afters are of a door panel, and the trunk. somebody had written 'wash me' on the trunk when it was dirty and i had no hope of ever getting it out, after multiple washes. and it's gone now!!!

thanks again for everyone's help!!!
 
Thanks for the update Nick!

nickbreedlove said:
to do the whole car and then do Meguiar's sealant took the better part of 8 whole hours. but the results were worth it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that little tidbit too....

I never want to make people shy away from learning how to machine polish paint due to the time involved but it's not an hour or two job but it is rewarding and worthwhile...

I uploaded your photos into you gallery here on Autogeek Online so they'll display in full size instead of click-to thumbnails...

Door Panel Before
beforedoorpanel.jpg



Door Panel After
afterdoorpanel.jpg




Trunk Before
beforetrunk.jpg




Trunk After
aftertrunk.jpg





Remind us... was this your first time machine polishing?


Nice work!

:xyxthumbs:
 
nickbreedlove said:
Hi all,



for the rest of the car, i used a white lake country polishing pad and meguiars ultimate compound per advice of meguiars who said that 105 was sort of overkill for the whole car. their advice was very good and it worked well.
Click to expand...
Nice job! Did you follow M105/white pad with anything?
 
Last edited:
Thanks Mike, yes first time machine polishing *correctly*. I'll pretend last weekend didn't happen, and pretend it was a trial run, learning experience.

In response to the last question, I used an orange lake country pad and 105 on the hood to correct swirls from last weekend's polishing in the sun. i still noticed swirls, which was likely. micromarring. So then I used 205 and a blue pad.

I didn't use 105/205 on the rest of the car. I used Ultimate compound on a white pad everywhere else.
 
nickbreedlove said:
Hi all,

i hope i don't have to do this for a few more years, because its a large, painful process, but results in a beautiful car.
Click to expand...
Interesting comment. It is a lot of work, but, look at what you got out of it. Unfortunately, black is going to show even the finest marks on the car. IF it is your daily driver, it is going to get marked up sooner rather than later.

A good plan might be to develop a maintainence plan. Like maybe plan to do twice a year with just the 205 to maintain a reduced swirl finish and only do the UC whenever needed.

Try to prevent marks as best you can by avoiding automated car washes and using paint friendly washing and drying techniques.

I, personally find the "work" therapeutic. I have a very busy career and family life. Detailing my cars is a great way to escape the daily grind. I look forward to having that Sat or Sun to spend most of the day working on my cars. I just throw a few slabs of babybacks on the smoker and try to forget about all the BS I deal with daily. In fact, that is exactly what I am doing today. Getting ready to dry rub the ribs right now.

Good luck with the car in the future. Nice work for a first time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top