I was polishing my new black car using the Flex 3401. Used Menzerna SF400 with white hybrid pad, Menzerna SF4500 with black hybrid pad, Wolfgang 3.0 deep gloss sealant with black hybrid pad (cure time of 30 minutes) and wiped it off. Now I don't know where the problem is but I didn't really get a high gloss finish that I was looking for. In addition, the gold micro fiber plush towels didn't really do a good job of removing spent product and left some scratches as well. Anyone chime in on this? Feed back please
Not getting the results I want
- Thread starter GoodToGo1
- Start date
DogRescuer
New member
- Apr 6, 2013
- 1,801
- 0
pics would be good
Bunky
Well-known member
- Jun 20, 2007
- 6,427
- 148
If you had a problem removing product, you probably used too much product. If you had to work to get it off, you probably just messed up the paint undoing what you did.
This is why you should do a test spot and get it right before doing the entire car.
This is why you should do a test spot and get it right before doing the entire car.
mwoolfso
New member
- Jul 18, 2011
- 2,592
- 0
If you don't mind please document your entire process using a numbered list (from wash to wax) and the type of vehicle as well.
Pics would be extremely helpful as well.
As far as products go, SF400 does not exist. Please clarify here in addition to helping us understand if you have washed the gold MF plush towels before. If you have washed them, I'd like to know if there was any fabric softeners in the wash product.
If your new to paint correction, the most common mistake is moving from one step to the next without inspecting your work.
You should be compounding until ALL of the scratches are gone. you dont move onto the polishing step until you 100% confirm this. That means removing all the product and checking your work with whatever lighting your noticing your current scratch's and swirls with.
If your satisfied with the defect removal, you then move onto polishing.
Polish until your are satisfied with the gloss and clarity. This is technically your last step for your paint correction. If you cant get the clarity you are looking for, dont expect a wax or sealant to produce that for you. consider your wax or sealant to protect the paint, not make it shiny. while they can make the paint look better they will not remove the scratch's or increase the clarity in quality lighting.
On many of the newer cars with OEM paint (and especially if they have used the automatic car wash), you will need to go at them pretty aggressively with the compounding step and a light cutting pad. Another big mistake I see and experience anytime I introduce someone to paint correction is they believe that their car is new so they dont require a cutting pad or compound. When I tried to explain paint hardness to my brother, he told me his paint is fairly new so its gotta be hard paint with less scratches. He correlated paint hardness with the age of the respray. thinking hardness changed with age. It can get really confusing in the beginning. which is why its best for people new to correction to use a system or kit, that includes and instructs this product with this pad and this step and so on ect, ect...
Another real mistake I saw every time ( I taught my dad and 2 brothers and sister to correct paint) was not enough time focused on the compounding step. They either ran the polisher at low speed, lack of pressure or moved it too fast. unfortunately all the detailing how to videos make it look to easy. You see the instructor fly through the step , pull the tape and show a dramatic 50/50 picture. that goes for the autogeek video and the griots garage vids. problem with how to video's is they are removing hazing from a wool pad (that was put into the paint for the video purposes) and not actual defects from normal daily driving wear and tear, which are a LOT harder to remove. just to note i'm a big proponent of the autogeek how to videos. you can learn a lot from them, but they are not very accurate in that sense.
One of my brothers did exactly what you are describing. He polished his car with SF4000 (because he insisted it didnt need to be compounded because it looked glossy in his garage), and waxed it. He then proceeded to wait a month to inspect it with gas station lighting and saw all the defects remained. This caused him to give up completely with paint correction. He fought me tooth and nail the entire time, telling me what his car needed and didnt, instead of doing a test spot and inspecting his work. I finally gave up on him. I had the best results with my dad. Because he watched me correct one of his classic cars from washing to the final wipedown over a holiday weekend. he saw with his own eyes what it took to complete the job. He saw it wasnt a 3 hour process, it was actually a 3 day process. IMO, nothing replicates this type of teaching. He saw how much pressure I used, how slow I moved the polisher and that I spend 20 minutes on one panel with one step. I believe it because of this, that my dad (who is the most rigid person to teach anything) is the best one out of the 4 who gets paint correction.
You should be compounding until ALL of the scratches are gone. you dont move onto the polishing step until you 100% confirm this. That means removing all the product and checking your work with whatever lighting your noticing your current scratch's and swirls with.
If your satisfied with the defect removal, you then move onto polishing.
Polish until your are satisfied with the gloss and clarity. This is technically your last step for your paint correction. If you cant get the clarity you are looking for, dont expect a wax or sealant to produce that for you. consider your wax or sealant to protect the paint, not make it shiny. while they can make the paint look better they will not remove the scratch's or increase the clarity in quality lighting.
On many of the newer cars with OEM paint (and especially if they have used the automatic car wash), you will need to go at them pretty aggressively with the compounding step and a light cutting pad. Another big mistake I see and experience anytime I introduce someone to paint correction is they believe that their car is new so they dont require a cutting pad or compound. When I tried to explain paint hardness to my brother, he told me his paint is fairly new so its gotta be hard paint with less scratches. He correlated paint hardness with the age of the respray. thinking hardness changed with age. It can get really confusing in the beginning. which is why its best for people new to correction to use a system or kit, that includes and instructs this product with this pad and this step and so on ect, ect...
Another real mistake I saw every time ( I taught my dad and 2 brothers and sister to correct paint) was not enough time focused on the compounding step. They either ran the polisher at low speed, lack of pressure or moved it too fast. unfortunately all the detailing how to videos make it look to easy. You see the instructor fly through the step , pull the tape and show a dramatic 50/50 picture. that goes for the autogeek video and the griots garage vids. problem with how to video's is they are removing hazing from a wool pad (that was put into the paint for the video purposes) and not actual defects from normal daily driving wear and tear, which are a LOT harder to remove. just to note i'm a big proponent of the autogeek how to videos. you can learn a lot from them, but they are not very accurate in that sense.
One of my brothers did exactly what you are describing. He polished his car with SF4000 (because he insisted it didnt need to be compounded because it looked glossy in his garage), and waxed it. He then proceeded to wait a month to inspect it with gas station lighting and saw all the defects remained. This caused him to give up completely with paint correction. He fought me tooth and nail the entire time, telling me what his car needed and didnt, instead of doing a test spot and inspecting his work. I finally gave up on him. I had the best results with my dad. Because he watched me correct one of his classic cars from washing to the final wipedown over a holiday weekend. he saw with his own eyes what it took to complete the job. He saw it wasnt a 3 hour process, it was actually a 3 day process. IMO, nothing replicates this type of teaching. He saw how much pressure I used, how slow I moved the polisher and that I spend 20 minutes on one panel with one step. I believe it because of this, that my dad (who is the most rigid person to teach anything) is the best one out of the 4 who gets paint correction.
I gotta ask, are you sure you removed the original scratches ? If so, how did you confirm this ?
Please break down the process step by step.
On the surface it sounds too much product or surface temps were too high.
I have feeling you probably needed a heavier polish/cut than sf4000/sf4500.
For example on my new midnight blue Touareg I had to use FG400, then SF4500, then went to my coating. The SF4500 wasn't enough to cut the surface to get it to a deep gloss.
On the surface it sounds too much product or surface temps were too high.
I have feeling you probably needed a heavier polish/cut than sf4000/sf4500.
For example on my new midnight blue Touareg I had to use FG400, then SF4500, then went to my coating. The SF4500 wasn't enough to cut the surface to get it to a deep gloss.
Mike Phillips
Active member
- Dec 5, 2022
- 51,004
- 7
How bad are the defects in your new black car?
Did the dealership sell you a swirled out car?
I always tell people don't try to learn how to machine polish on your car that's important to you, especially a black car. For example maybe learn or practice on a less important car, wife's car, the beater in the driveway etc.
Like mentioned by someone else in this thread, the first step is the most important step. I always practice myself, teach others and including in my how-to books and videos the idea of doing a TEST SPOT.
That is test the entire process you're THINKING about doing to the entire car to just one small section and then inspect.
Make sure you're getting the results you want, hope for and dream about in the one small section before potentially wasting time buffing out the entire car only to find out something isn't working.
I'm taking a break from my full blown detailing boot camp class while the class eats lunch but when I left they were compounding a 1962 Chrysler 300 with a basecoat/clearcoat paint job and wiping the compound off with the Gold Plush Jr. microfiber towels using the techniques I teach in my classes and the results are nothing short of show car quality.
- Thread starter
- #10
Hey guys, thanks for your reply. The car did not have any scratches on it. I did not do the entire car. I only did the trunk to get a hang of things.
I used a speed of 1 in the entire process. Should I try a higher speed? I am using 4" pads BTW.
The car is an Audi A8L.
I used a speed of 1 in the entire process. Should I try a higher speed? I am using 4" pads BTW.
The car is an Audi A8L.
Kamakaz1961
New member
- Aug 23, 2013
- 4,389
- 0
Speed of 1 will not work. Try Speed setting 5 That should do the trick.
This is my guess without knowing the complete details. Mike Phillips has a book on how to use the Flex. That is extremely helpful and it will help you greatly too.
This is my guess without knowing the complete details. Mike Phillips has a book on how to use the Flex. That is extremely helpful and it will help you greatly too.
psnt1ol
New member
- Aug 8, 2012
- 892
- 0
The 4" Pad....I wasn't aware that LC makes a 4" hybrid pad. Are you using the LC backing plate with the 5" Hybrid pads????
Like others had stated earlier...Please list your entire process ( amount of sectional passes, arm speed, pressure , work area, etc). This will help in diagnosing the problem.
rops:
custmsprty
New member
- Apr 11, 2012
- 7,496
- 0
You need to open that bad boy up, crank it up. I run all my Rupes polishers at full speed when correcting. I would also go with larger pad than 4". I run on 2-3 when applying wax and sealants.
Also, I use gold plush jr mf all the time w/o any such issues.
This is my Black GC, buffed out a year or so ago with my Rupes, Menz 2500/4500 WG 3.0 topped with Fuzion.
As others have said, please post up pictures, they are critical to assessing your issues.
I got my car off the hauler with the plastic still on and it had some scratches, no such thing as a scratch swirl free new black car
rops:
Thoughts:
- Did you CLAY the car/test area first?
- you def need a higher speed for correction, 4 at a minimum
- try using a more aggressive compound/pad
- need a larger BP/Pad combo
- and it sounds like the paint may be soft
Pics would be extremely helpful as would a more in depth explanation of your processes
- Did you CLAY the car/test area first?
- you def need a higher speed for correction, 4 at a minimum
- try using a more aggressive compound/pad
- need a larger BP/Pad combo
- and it sounds like the paint may be soft
Pics would be extremely helpful as would a more in depth explanation of your processes
MarkD51
Active member
- Oct 15, 2012
- 3,130
- 0
There's where you messed up!
No harm no foul though. Just means having fun again in the future, and I would be correct to say no one masters such the first time out. It's always better too little than to do too much.
Watch this video from start to finish. Then watch again down the road.
You'll hear Mike mention the speeds he's using. Notice the pressure he applies, and note that while in use he keeps the machine moving!
Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn_kVH3BVc
custmsprty
New member
- Apr 11, 2012
- 7,496
- 0
^^^^^That's a great video, a must watch for sure^^^^^
mwoolfso
New member
- Jul 18, 2011
- 2,592
- 0
Like others have said you will need at least 4 on the Flex for correcting paint. I suggest you read up on as many of Mike Phillips' articles as possible.
http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum...ke-phillips/23722-articles-mike-phillips.html
Then, create a process that covers the major steps in a detail --> wash, clay, polish, LSP and execute it. Audi vehicles have hard paint as well as ceramiclear so Flex and Menzerna products are up to the task. It's your technique and plan that need to be further developed.
Based on what you have stated (and also not stated), I am taking an educated guess that you skipped the knowledge acquisition phase a little and wanted some "cuddle-time" with the Flex and your products. And you did that with speed 1. Do some more research and you will find out when speed 1 applies vs. higher speeds. Last suggestion, go to an auto junkyard and purchase a flat surface, like part or all of a rear deck lid or a hood. Then, you can crank away with your tools and products and see what those bad boys can really do and with zero risk to your Audi.
If you want to lock-down a generic process regarding a new car, well then there are threads that exist in this form specific for new cars - which will help you get a leg up on a process.
Best of luck to you.
i think your reading my post wrong. my brother has a 30 year old car that was resprayed 6 years ago. He concluded that the paint get SOFTER over time with a huge significance. And that it was a constant variable on EVERY car. this week the paint is hard, and this week next year its softer ect ect until you can wipe the paint off the car in 30 years.
allenk4
In time out
- Mar 12, 2013
- 4,845
- 0
Interesting, but I disagree and will need more than your Brothers word to convince me.
Ask him to fill us all in on the mystery of the 30 year old paint that was wiped off the car.
Thanks