Opinions on using APC to clean leather??

I think it was stated somewhere earlier in the thread that if your leather is fairly new that the Lexol conditioner will leave the leather tacky. I had that happen w/ my STi and just let it dry for a little while then buffed it off. It was nice on the steering wheel for aggressive driving/autocrossing(with glove on). I have found that if using the Lexol wipes to apply the product with the side of the wipe that is courser(if you look close one side is smoother than the other), and then buff the leather with the smoother side. Could just be my imagination though, and just my $.02 anyway.
 
Ive never had sticky or greasy looking seats from lexol. Maybe its because i dont let the product stay on but just a couple minutes and then buff it off.

And I also use a terry type towel to buff it off.

The only seats that dont come out to my liking is BMW black seats ,Ive had trouble with streaking .
 
I've found with "dedicated" leather cleaners, they tend to be rather ineffective, unless the leather has very minimal dirt. Most cars that come through for leather cleaning are fairly dirty, not worn, just dirty, and the only thing that cleans effectively is APC.
 
Roger Koh said:
What you may yet to know is that cleaners have its class that ranges from Prep to Rinse.

You should be looking at “preconditioners” or “preps” that matches the soiling level, not under cleaning it nor over cleaning it.

There are the strong and the super conditioner that is calibrated for either “heavy” or “greasy” soiling.

And the “prep” that is design for extreme soiling including stripping years of accumulated conditioners and protectors; including stripping of aged and yellowed unwanted silicone shine from dash boards.

In the order of cleaning ability ranking as follows:

1] Prep (preparatory cleaner)
2] Super Preconditioner (preconditioner)
3] Strong Preconditioner (preconditioner)
4] Cleaner (cleaner)
5] Rinse (neutralizing rinse)


Roger Koh
[email protected]
Click to expand...
Thanks, Roger.

However, I don't clean leather enough to have 5 different cleaners. Is there not such a cleaner that you can use on very dirty leather, while still being safe to use on leather that's not very dirty?
 
Roger Koh said:
1]

To be continued…


Note:
(It seems that the system cannot take a full load including three videos all in one go...tried removing the video...still wouldn't work...that's why...in this situation to post in parts...).


Roger Koh
[email protected]
Click to expand...



2] Chemistry of Leather Making:
The chemistry that goes into the converting of perishable protein hides to non-perishable leathers is what matters most to us; as incompatible after care products we use with oblivious side-effects may snowball into stiffness and cracks. These three main leather constituents are the tanning agent, dyestuff and fatliquor; for the life-blood of leather is the fatliquor, to keep the leather soft and supple. All aftermarket rejuvenators or conditioners purpose is to try replenishing it, as it slowly diminishes as VOC (volatile organic compound); accelerated by heat, solvency and alkalinity.



note:
Strange...the system only allows a paragraph like this to go through at one time...
 
3] Hydrogen-Bond:
These anionic (-) leather constituents are hydrogen-bond with the cationic (+) leather protein fibrils and they are especially sensitive to temperature and pH value. When their ionic bonds are disrupted, it repels one another like magnets; thus, the exposed tanning agent areas become sticky or slimy when wet; the exposed fatliquor areas becomes stiff; and rings will result from aniline leathers known to the Ford King Ranch.


Video explaining Hydrogen Bond - [video=youtube_share;lkl5cbfqFRM&feature=related] - Hydrogen Bonding Video[/video]
 
4] Isoelectric Point:
Acidic products ranges from pH 3 to 6.9 are recommended for general cleaning of leathers. When alkaline products ranges from 7.1 to 11 are used and seeped into the leather structure, it will cause the protein fibers to shift anionic (-); thus repels the leather constituents; that lead to the denaturing of the leather, resulting in stiffness and cracking.


Video explaining Isoelectric Point - [video=youtube_share;Fkv89VW8g38] - The Isoelectric Point of Proteins - BV 5[/video]
 
5] Leather Safe System:
A leather-safe system will ensure that when inevitable alkaline product is used for specific purpose, it is neutralized to return the leather to its pH neutral of 3 to 5; that the chemistry integrity of the leather is not compromised. The level and type of soiling is matched with appropriate calibrated strength of cleaning solution according to problem solving guides, not under cleaning it nor over cleaning it; with adopted leather cleaning principles based on tannery practices worldwide.
 
6] Leather Desired Softness and Suppleness:
Leather when is wet and dry again, its fibers tends to stick together that makes the leather stiffer than before it was wet; thus it is recommended that they are fatliquored while it’s still damp prior to drying it. In so doing the fibrils are lubricated so that when the leather is dry, these millions of fibrils behaving like connecting hinges will slide over one another smoothly; thus a soft and supple leather at all times.


Video explaining Fatliquoring - HowStuffWorks Videos "Dirty Jobs: Fat-liquor"
 
Yes Mark, thats the very problem ! It would be great if everyone had fairly clean leather ,but they dont! Some peoples leather is downright disgustingly grungy and looks like they havent cleaned it in years !

Thats a problem for us in the detailing industry when the leather cleaners out there are not effective.

I admit to using armor all wipes on dirty leather like that . Even though it says its ok to use on leather I know its really not by the feel of it afterwards . I always make sure to get every remnant off with water after using these wipes.

Another problem we face is other silicone products that have been used previously on the caoted leather that actaully binds the dirt to the coated leather .

If only people would take care of their leather in the first place our jobs wouldnt be so hard!
 
So far we have been dealing with the leather structure, where non leather-safe care products, may destabilize the chemistry composition of the leather structure, which results in premature ageing. Now we are going into the leather finish that comprises of two micron layers the colorcoat and the topcoat.

7] Leather Finish Types:
The finish of leather determine its finish types and the majority of leather seats are pigmented; which include the pigmented non-absorbent, micro-pigment semi-absorbent and the napa-pigmented absorbent; these are also referred to as the coated leathers. Aniline leathers found in Ford King Ranch is aniline dyed with a gloss topcoat. The reverse side of smooth leather is also used as suede trim in some models; so products safe for suede should also be safe for its smooth leather side and vice versa.

8] Pigment Color Coating:
Auto pigment is UV stronger than the typical indoor furnishing pigment type. The opaque color coating we see is a film ratio averaging 1 part pigment to 2 part binder in various formulations; with an average micron thickness of 0.02mm. This pigment color coating is essentially for the fashion aesthetic appeal.
 
07 z-oh-6 said:
Thanks, Roger.

However, I don't clean leather enough to have 5 different cleaners. Is there not such a cleaner that you can use on very dirty leather, while still being safe to use on leather that's not very dirty?
Click to expand...


Yes!

These products do comes in concentrates to save on shipping; follow the recommended ratio for standard usage and cut further with distilled water to suite the level of soiling.

This is assuming that you will still stick-on to the traditional methods of doing things, that may not bring value to your services.


A scientific approach to educate your customer will bring more value and reputation to your business.


That is a cut above the rest. you call your price when you can reach this level of professionalism.


And certainly I am here to help, for once I was a leather butcher, killing all the leather softly and obliviously with an innocent smile and a naive shrug.


Roger Koh
[email protected]
 
Did I mention that Power Clean is safe and effective on all leather except suede, j/k
 
Chris@Optimum said:
Did I mention that Power Clean is safe and effective on all leather except suede, j/k
Click to expand...



02-10-2011, 10:00 AM #13
Chris@Optimum
Product Support
Posts: 518
Well since you asked for facts...Power Clean IS safe on all leather except suede. The only caution needed is not to let it run down vertical seat backs without spreading it. Just spray and spread, then you can take your time scrubbing. I would also follow up with a damp towel or Protectant Plus to remove any residue.


Sent from my Verizon iPhone 4
using Tapatalk
 
Roger Koh said:
02-10-2011, 10:00 AM #13
Chris@Optimum
Product Support
Posts: 518
Well since you asked for facts...Power Clean IS safe on all leather except suede. The only caution needed is not to let it run down vertical seat backs without spreading it. Just spray and spread, then you can take your time scrubbing. I would also follow up with a damp towel or Protectant Plus to remove any residue.


Sent from my Verizon iPhone 4
using Tapatalk
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I think Chris was making a joke that he's mentioned it numerous times already that power clean is safe for leather.
 
There is no need to have many different cleaners for leather but it is important to understand what is a cleaning problem and when it becomes a restoration one. Leather that is uncared for and allowed to get dirty will at some point need restoration as the dirt will damage the pigment coating.

Once you have an understanding of leather (no need to get too complex) you will be able to pass on good advice to your customers (if you are a professional detailer) about ongoing maintenance of their leather that is quick and simple to do - this will then make your job easier. For those that are on here for their own cars leather should be maintained on a regular basis and protected to keep the leather clean and in good condition.

Cleaning very dirty and ingrained leather is as much about understanding leather cleaning and the techniques to use as it is about the product that you use.
It is far safer to use a dedicated leather cleaner as long as it has been tested correctly as using other types of cleaner may appear to be effective but could be doing damage to the finish which over a longer period of time will simply break down the finish and cause further expensive problems.

If pale coloured leather has heavy soiling it needs a good leather cleaner which is designed for the purpose. A water based foam cleaner will work best and safely (not an aerosol foam that will contain solvents). If you use a foam cleaner you can give the product dwell time and because the foam is already an active cleaner it will draw the dirt out of the grain pattern into the foam and it can then be removed with paper towel or a terry towel. Foams also ensure that you do not get 'streaking' from runs on the leather from a liquid cleaner - these are often impossible to get rid of without recolouring if allowed to happen.
A lot of leather cleaners and wipes in particular simply move the dirt around on the surface which does not remove the soiling. To help the process a stiff bristled brush can be used to help the foam get into the grain pattern of the leather and release the dirt. You must not use the brush to scrub the dirt out but use it gently. Tampico and horsehair brushes are not suitable for this as the bristles become to soft when wet and will simply bend on the surface of the leather. You can repeat the process if necessary.

Pigment coatings and clear coat finishes which are used on most car ineteriors do break down over time if not correctly cared for. Once the coatings begin this deterioration it can appear that they are very dirty when in fact the 'dirt' is micro cracking of the pigment (this would not be visible to the naked eye but can be seen through a microscope - an important part of any detailing kit) - if this is present no amount of cleaning will rectify it and it will need restoration products to recolour/refinish the pigment coating.

Calling for stronger and stronger products to clean leather can be a risky strategy and can be detrimental in the long run.

Learn to understand leather in a simple way (using a microscope will tell you a lot about the surface you are working on).

Hope this helps
Judyb
 
judyb said:
Calling for stronger and stronger products to clean leather can be a risky strategy and can be detrimental in the long run.



Hope this helps
Judyb
Click to expand...
Dr G. states that optimum power clean is not caustic, so I'm not sure how it could be bad for cleaning coated leather, even in the long run?
 
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