Opticoat 2.0 discontinued, OptiCoat Pro sees price increase

[allenk4]

You didn't get this e mail from DR G?

I did

Interesting that you have it as well?

I should also, guess that you have a copy of the email I sent him as well

If you do, you understand that the questions I asked were not answered

 

[FUNX650]

I did

Interesting that you have it as well?

I should also, guess that you have a copy of the email I sent him as well

Unbelievable!! :smh:


Bob

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Setec, hello and good to chat with ya and I very much appreciate the great questions.

I'm always happy to see you around here, Anthony. You know it's just that I'm jealous that you get the good stuff, and I don't. I'm sure there's a lot of me's out here who just do this for fun, never detail for money (even if we sometimes do friends/relatives cars to use up some of the stuff they sell us here at Autogeek), but would never take our car to a pro detailer just to get Opti-Coat. Maybe someday after this all gets sorted out OPT will be able to sell some sort of permanent product again to the consumer market, maybe it will be called Consumer-Coat, or Fake-Coat, or something like that.

Anyone remember the detailer that went to Florida pretending to be a paint correction specialist and jacking up some guys Lambo?? It was all over the forums some time ago.

You know I just came across a picture that I had saved of that guy smoking a cigar after duping that poor customer, but I didn't remember the whole story until you mentioned it! LOL!

My biggest irk....is Then again I am older now and just grumpy! :laughing:

Yeah, you and me both.

 

[tdekany]

Unbelievable!! :smh:


Bob

What is unbelievable? I alerted Dr G that Allen received conflicting info when going to the source. Some of you guys should really try to find a hobby or something, because from where I am sitting, your involvement in a product that you don't use is making you look pretty bad.

 

[cardaddy]

People are or were applying 2.0 and CALLING IT THE PRO VERSION and then charging a PRO PRICE.....yet they were not getting what they paid for.

I hear what you're saying Anthony. Although.... the same people that would call 2.0 OCP will still call whatever they want, whatever they want (whenever they want).

Changing the formula (unfortunately) isn't going to stop such practices.:dunno:

...I have seen the brief description of the certification process that OPT uses to assess whether someone can become an authorized professional installer. It does not appear that the bar is very high, to be deemed a Pro.


Regarding the mandated price-point; that is done in lots of industries. The real reason is so that the Supplier can maintain their high price to the end seller. It works as long as your product can be effectively differentiated from its competitors. In my opinion OPT has lost this ability with the warranty change on OCP. The conversation with the Customer is very different when asking them to pay $495 for a coating that is guarantees for the life of the vehicle versus the same $495 for a product that is guaranteed for 5 years

Are you talking about the past practice of having the insurance and a business checking account? Or the new one of checking social media posts (good, bad or ugly)?

Seem neither is exactly a bellwether to determine the true quality of the work the individual performs. :dunno:

For instance; there are two high-end detailers about 30 minutes either east or west of me, one has been flown all over the world to do vehicles and has personal relationships with the movers and shakers in the detailing world, the other does the same type of work (at least price wise) but doesn't run in the same circles and doesn't fly across the world to do vehicles. For years neither had a commercial space, the first one still doesn't (but may well be the better choice), the other one (until recently operated from his in-laws garage) but does now have a shop. However #2 is all over social media, puts up S&S threads all the times & seems to have the time for it. Yet #1 has been doing it for much longer.

NEITHER should be denied access to the product though.
(Although I would argue that as long as your work ethic is in line with OPT's standards AND you still have the prerequisite business/insurance requirements that as long as you are willing to stand behind your work that you should be installing the product.)

What do the recent changes by OPT do to prevent these unscrupulous detailers from applying Gloss-Coat and charging the Customers the OCP price

I was following you, but you lost me

Me wonders the same.....:dunno:

1: Why would the shorter life-span of whatever I lie about and put on prevent me from saying, "Ma'am, for $495 I will coat your car with Opti-Coat Pro". And then proceed to use whatever I want.

3: That consumer would have to bring that car back to the detailer, 3 times over the next three years at $100 a pop (minimum) to fulfill the terms of the warranty

3: Google Opti-Coat 2.0 and you will see that there already lots of detailers who offer OC2 at above the OCP minimum price mandated by OPT. Consumers do not know the difference between Compound and Polksh, much less OCP and OC2

1: Without having an invoice stating SPECIFICALLY that OCP was installed, I wonder if perhaps people just heard the words "Opti-Coat" and *not knowing any better* assumed their vehicle was indeed coated with OCP. Hmmmmm??????

Pricing alone isn't going to say that OCP was installed, EVEN IF the owner paid $495. I know we've never done all the prep it takes to get a vehicle ready for ANY coating and not charged AT LEAST $495. In fact one of the last coatings we did was $645 and I assure you it was not OCP, or 2.0 for that matter.

2: FINALLY.... I say F-I-N-A-L-L-Y someone brought up the "terms of the warranty"! :xyxthumbs: I know somewhere around here I have that warranty, and that alone is what can get pretty much any installer out of backing said warranty. Don't bring the car back regularly for timely inspections, maintenance and proper washings.... WHAM the warranty doesn't apply.

3: Which brings us to part 3.
And honestly why I think so many out there started offering 2.0, not perhaps OVER OCP but INSTEAD of OCP. Sure, there are the ones out there that would allude to one being the other and honestly.... we'll never rid ourselves of those types. But it had (past tense) a place in the market.

The market for paint correction is small enough as it is, but when you factor in an additional $495 it gets even smaller. The owner that'll pay $595 for a paint correction and a coating (of some sort) is much easier to find than the one that'll pay much more, possibly three times that.

Considering the MAP price ($495), then add in all the labor involved for properly prepping a vehicle (other than a brand new one) to be ready for a "permanent" coating and it's not hard to see a good detailer charging $995 for OCP. I know I'll be charging $495 for ANY level of paint correction, no coating involved. Also I can tell you at least one of the ones I mentioned above will charge a good bit MORE than that $995 figure. (Check his web site, it's fairly price intensive.) Why charge so much? Because it's very possible that there is 15~20 hours involved in getting all the 'other' detailing and paint correction done. So yeah... OC 2.0 for $495 really isn't that much of a stretch.




All that outta the way; Perhaps though the reason for the new formulation is much more driven by all the other offerings on the market these days. Everywhere you look, that magical 2 year period is attached to all manner of coatings. (It's been argued that some are nothing more than glorified sealants, who knows.) None the less, when all your competition is selling "2 year" products and you're selling 5 year and "permanent" (or lifetime) seems that one of your products is offering more than it needs to. :dunno:

Who knows, maybe it'll (the new formula, lack of 2.0 AND cutting down on installers) end up causing the loss of business. In todays market of 24 months coatings all over the place it surely isn't hard to find one to offer both the consumer as well as the buyer (if you're in the business to either sell coatings or install.) Only time will tell. :dunno:

 

[tdekany]

I did

Interesting that you have it as well?

I should also, guess that you have a copy of the email I sent him as well

If you do, you understand that the questions I asked were not answered

Which questions did he not answer?

 

[FUNX650]

What is unbelievable? I alerted Dr G that Allen received conflicting info when going to the source.

And he shared it with you? Unbelievable!!

Some of you guys should really try to find a hobby or something
, because from where I am sitting, your involvement in a product that you don't use is making you look pretty bad.

•One of my hobbies is shucking shills
•Let's make that a product I will no longer be using!

•OK...If that's your opinion...Then, in my opinion:
-You need to get up "from where you're sitting", and move on to some other far, far away location.

•As far as I'm concerned:
-Somebody that would ever think that they're privy to my emails: then that somebody belongs in the privy.

Bob

 

[builthatch]

i think the warranty requirement as part of the OCP purchase helps against dishonesty, because in a way it's a log to tie the car to the OCP purchase with OPT. i'm sure it is something that has to be filled out by the detailer and/or registered with OPT, right? if not, then forgive me.

also, the quota helps as well. hard to post a bunch of OCP installations on your facebook page or via internet write ups that aren't actually OCP if you aren't making the purchases from OPT to correspond.

the quota idea also seems to help against detailers using OPT's authorized installer status to bait customers and then switch them into something else, even a product that isn't OPT's. will that happen no matter what? of course, because of many reasons (and not all of them involving any dishonesty), but at least the quota somewhat guarantees some sort of legitimacy to staying on that installer list and being referred by OPT with the hopes that the customer will actually get OPT stuff. it's a way to tie everything together in my eyes.

sorry to keep butting in here with these thoughts as i'm not a pro installer. but, i'm in an end of the industry that has a ton of parallels to this exact type of situation.

 

[FUNX650]

Now when I think of OCP warranties...
The thoughts keep going back to, and about, all the people that had their vehicles OCP'ed (by one of Optimum's certified OCP-appliers) prior to this latest change in the once permanent, to the current 5 years warranty aspect.

Bob

 

[tdekany]

And he shared it with you? Unbelievable!!


•One of my hobbies is shucking shills
•Let's make that a product I will no longer be using!

•OK...If that's your opinion...Then, in my opinion:
-You need to get up "from where you're sitting", and move on to some other far, far away location.

•As far as I'm concerned:
-Somebody that would ever think that they're privy to my emails: then that somebody belongs in the privy.

Bob

What are you a 2 year old? The e mail had the very same content he has been asking on this forum.

Not sure what is up your pants but man you are sounding worse by the posts.

How about this thought? Taking your on advice? I mean what do you mean by moving away to a far away location? What is that have to do with any of this? Try to caaaalllllllmmmmm down. After all, you are working yourself up over a product that you don't use, a product that went up in price. If you still can't understand why the 5 year warranty vs lifetime, there is not much anyone can do for you.

 

[tommythecat]

What are you a 2 year old? The e mail had the very same content he has been asking on this forum.

Not sure what is up your pants but man you are sounding worse by the posts.

How about this thought? Taking your on advice? I mean what do you mean by moving away to a far away location? What is that have to do with any of this? Try to caaaalllllllmmmmm down. After all, you are working yourself up over a product that you don't use, a product that went up in price. If you still can't understand why the 5 year warranty vs lifetime, there is not much anyone can do for you.

The answer he is not getting from Dr G is about the math not working out according to the directions of using "a couple of drops" and getting 2 microns of film build on a given section/panel. The math does not work out if you only use "a couple of drops" per panel (as per optimums directions).

This is the gist I have gathered from allenk4's posts. If I am off in left field somewhere my apologies.

 

[tdekany]

Depending on the size of the car, I usually do use 10cc for an average car like an M5. Most def. more than couple of drops per panel. However I must have missed that part of his post. Yet, I still have to wonder why all these questions about a product he has no interest using. Does anyone really use that little? Can one "cover" a regular sized car with 5cc? Most definitely. Thinner layer but it has been done many times.

 

[tommythecat]

Depending on the size of the car, I usually do use 10cc for an average car like an M5. Most def. more than couple of drops per panel. However I must have missed that part of his post. Yet, I still have to wonder why all these questions about a product he has no interest using. Does anyone really use that little? Can one "cover" a regular sized car with 5cc? Most definitely. Thinner layer but it has been done many times.

I think it has to do with following the directions per optimum and being told that you will get 2 microns of film build with just a couple of drops per panel. I think his problem is with the fact that if you follow the directions given by Optimum, you will not get what Optimum says you will get (~2 microns).

Again, this is just my take on his posts. I have not looked at the directions for OC 2.0 in quite a while as I still have yet to use the syringe I purchased over a year ago.

I am just trying to interject a little clarity to his posts as it seemed more like you guys were starting to talk past each other as opposed to getting closer to real answers. :xyxthumbs:

 

[SonOfOC]

If you have faith or believe in Optimum and the product, then continue using it. If you sense shenanigan, then move on another product. There are plenty of choices.:xyxthumbs:

 

[tdekany]

If you have faith or believe in Optimum and the product, then continue using it. If you sense shenanigan, then move on another product. There are plenty of choices.:xyxthumbs:

+1!

 

[tdekany]

I think it has to do with following the directions per optimum and being told that you will get 2 microns of film build with just a couple of drops per panel. I think his problem is with the fact that if you follow the directions given by Optimum, you will not get what Optimum says you will get (~2 microns).

Again, this is just my take on his posts. I have not looked at the directions for OC 2.0 in quite a while as I still have yet to use the syringe I purchased over a year ago.

I am just trying to interject a little clarity to his posts as it seemed more like you guys were starting to talk past each other as opposed to getting closer to real answers. :xyxthumbs:

Does it say anywhere that if you use 2 drops per panel once the applicator is primed that you get 2 microns?

 

[tommythecat]

Does it say anywhere that if you use 2 drops per panel once the applicator is primed that you get 2 microns?

Like I said, I haven't looked at the instructions in quite a while. I will check them out when I get home from work though. I remember hearing people say it in videos and the phrase being used a lot around the forums, but I do not recall the exact wording in the instructions.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Like I said, I haven't looked at the instructions in quite a while. I will check them out when I get home from work though. I remember hearing people say it in videos and the phrase being used a lot around the forums, but I do not recall the exact wording in the instructions.

I'll save you the trouble. Step 3 from the syringe says: "Prime the applicator by making an X pattern across the pad. Only a few drops will be needed for each subsequent panel."

At this point, who really cares? This is a discontinued product with no claimed film build. A "few drops" is hardly a technical measurement, how many is a few?

How did we get stuck on whether a few drops is enough for a panel? Dr. G has already answered the person interested that it will take 20cc to cover his truck. Do you guys want an apology from Dr. G about the OC 2.0 instructions? Maybe he should just take it off the market...oh wait, he did. And that is what this thread was about until we started measuring drops and expressing outrage that people forward emails.

 

[golliger]

Seriously?!?!? That's the best you've got ?!?

If a sales person made that statment it would only show their ignorance. Paint that is permanent - L-O-L

So I am assuming you don't use terms like permanent structure?
In the grand scheme of things nothing is really permanent. I think it is reasonable to talk about functional permanence though. For example the sun isn't permanent, but it is permanent enough for my purposes.

I once had some well dressed guys knocking on my door who tried to convince me that even death isn't permanent.

 

[RaskyR1]

i think the warranty requirement as part of the OCP purchase helps against dishonesty, because in a way it's a log to tie the car to the OCP purchase with OPT. i'm sure it is something that has to be filled out by the detailer and/or registered with OPT, right? if not, then forgive me.

also, the quota helps as well. hard to post a bunch of OCP installations on your facebook page or via internet write ups that aren't actually OCP if you aren't making the purchases from OPT to correspond.

the quota idea also seems to help against detailers using OPT's authorized installer status to bait customers and then switch them into something else, even a product that isn't OPT's. will that happen no matter what? of course, because of many reasons (and not all of them involving any dishonesty), but at least the quota somewhat guarantees some sort of legitimacy to staying on that installer list and being referred by OPT with the hopes that the customer will actually get OPT stuff. it's a way to tie everything together in my eyes.

sorry to keep butting in here with these thoughts as i'm not a pro installer. but, i'm in an end of the industry that has a ton of parallels to this exact type of situation.

While you do make a good point there, it's only valid when someone actually wants the warranty or is even aware that it comes with one. In the last 4+ years none of my clients have wanted or asked for the warranty. It's a worthless piece of paper and the fact that installers no longer have to option to choose in offering it sucks! Even with CQF, very few of my clients even want the warranty info when I fill it out and offer it to them.

The below is a quote from another forum, but I feel it's one of the best post about the changes Opt made on the Pro side.

Chris,

Reading your post you stated there was no price increase rather a discontinued kit and the only kit is a warrantied version. Then you stated that the "addl warranty cost should be directly passed to the client and presented as a value."

So by removing the less expensive version, or an option for the client to choose, how would you view that? Technically that may NOT be a price increase but that is a loss to me as a consumer/perspective client. I view that as a price increase because I lost a less expensive option. I asked two friends of mine, who happen to be perspective clients of a coating application, and they viewed it the same way after reading the posts. I'm not a business person nor am I a professional detailer so maybe I don't understand it from those aspects. Bottom line is that last week if I had inquired about an Opti Pro application, I had choices and a level on how much weight my wallet would loose. Now, there is only 1 way and a specific amount of weight my wallet looses.

As far as warranties, I believe that they should be "Optional." What if I go to Best Buy, Cabela's, or buy a new vehicle and I am forced to pay for a warranty that I do not want? So, I guess, it is justified to talk the client into how great it is but you are getting it whether you like it or not? I dare not say forced because, in the case of Opti Coat, I can walk away and say Nah, I'll go with ____________, because I have the choice and financial say of not taking something that I do not want.

As I have gotten older, I try and stay out of offering my opinion on something I know little about. After a few days of reading and your post I just felt stirred to throw in my two cents..as a client, consumer, or what ever I am labeled.

FYI...If folks go thru my post's they will see I am indeed an Optimum fan. I certainly don't begrudge a business making a profit and for change but maybe a lesson can be learned from this.

I agree with June Bug I do believe the market will dictate as to whether or not the change is successful. I can tell you my two friend's, ie the perspective coating clients I mentioned earlier, are 85% leaning towards another coating because of price and what they have been reading. When they asked my opinion I told them, "it's your investment, do what you feel is best for you."

I hope each and everyone of you have a Great Weekend! Maybe it's time we walk away from this topic for a few days and take a breather. Besides College Football has begun...geesh another topic that can get folks fired up!


WAR EAGLE!

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