Ordered Pinnacle Black Diamond Coating BUT...

[FUNX650]

Its interesting that nobody from Palm Beach Motoring/Autogeek can chime in here.

For your consideration...
Nick gave this response in another Black Label Coating-related thread:

You'll need to use Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish before application of the coating.
You can top the coating with your favorite wax.

OH BOY!!!...I get to use one of my favorite words:

-Does this mean you can "layer":
PBL-Sealant over the PBL-Coating(s)?

-How about a second, or more, layers of the PBL-Coating(s) atop themselves?



Bob

Bob,

We formulated these coatings so they can be topped with your favorite wax or sealant. Multiple coats of the coating (that's a mouthful) doesn't increase durability.

Okay I added it to my order. Do you put it on after the paint coating and if so is there a cure time for the paint coating?

This is the order that you'll want to apply the products:

1. Surface Cleansing Polish (most important step)
2. Diamond Coating (wait 24 hours)
3. Diamond Paint sealant

Maintain the shine and protection with Diamond Coating Shampoo.

:dblthumb2:

I do hope this clears-up a few things!

Bob

 

[cardaddy]

I wonder why not use eraser in any instance since eraser is supposed to be better than IPA?

Until I saw this post, I didn't think it would be so critical to wear gloves but that is so true. Wow, I thought people wore the gloves to protect their hands. I guess I need to order some.

I like gloves. Remember the old saying, "If it's on your hands it's in your system"? Just prefer to wear them most of the time if for no other reason than to keep crud from getting under my nails.

 

[statusdetailing]

Not sure brother, I am more intrigued now than I was back then just to understand the interfering mechanics of Eraser. If it is good enough for OptiCoat, it should be good enough for any other coating!?!

Glove needs fall under 2 categories:
- 1) your protection, because as Mike say "If it on you, its in you!"
- 2) For the protection of your work. Again, as Mike say, "Work Clean". Cross contamination from body oils or other secretions will affect the product and its function. If the chemist had intended for you to have "forehead sweat" or "body oils" as part of their formulation (because it enhanced some properties of the product), then they would have added it at the manufacturing end and not depend on the end user to sweat all over it rops:

secretions...gross!

 

[runrun411]

The price of the coating went up and I didn't order any. Uggghhhhhh!

Where's BOGO?!?

 

[artofdetailing]

The price of the coating went up and I didn't order any. Uggghhhhhh!

Where's BOGO?!?

BOGO just updated

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Its interesting that nobody from Palm Beach Motoring/Autogeek can chime in here.

This thread was started on Monday. This would be the day I returned to work after SEMA was over. I got home late Saturday night, around 11:45PM, kind of tired after the week and the long flight.

Took Sunday off.

Spent Monday playing catch up. Lots of catch-up. Can't possibly reply to every thread started since I left Stuart on Sunday, November 3rd. I do post a lot and I do try to reply to as may threads as possible but I couldn't get to this on Monday and yesterday, (Tuesday, November 12th), I was out most of the day shoot a new segment for Ship Shape TV. When I did return to the office I had quite a bit of work to do to get this going,

2013 Dodge Charger - LIVE BROADCAST - Black Label & Rupes Polishers


2013 Pearl Jazz Blue Dodge Charger

I didn't order the paint cleansing lotion. I am planning to use it on a car that will be receiving a full paint correction...I know how to do proper prep work before applying a coating but in the description for the PBD coating it says "If you do not use Surface Cleansing Polish before applying one of the Diamond coatings, the result will be complete failure of the coating"

So do I now need to buy the cleansing polish and use it even with all the other prep work being done? Feed back please

I didn't write the copy for that page nor did I work on the creation of this product but my guess would be that since that's a store page it's speaking to a lot more people than the educated people that hang out on this forum. Imagine for a second that a lot of NON-forum people find that page and all the info they have is from that page. They don't hang out on a forum like this and get the overload of deep thinking that goes on every day but people that are for the most part OCD when it comes to prep work for a coating.

For these people, you need to be very clear and specific because it's quite possible the store page is the only place and time where you're going to have a chance to educate them on how to properly use ANY product.

"By creating a polish that doesn’t have any oils, waxes, silicones, polymers or fillers, you can apply a paint coating immediately after polishing your paint with Detailer’s Coating Prep Polish. There is no need to chemically strip the paint using Isopropyl alcohol or volatile wax and oil removers.

This is an excerpt taken from the DP prep polish page.

So if I use opti-eraser shouldn't the surface be clean enough for the coating?

Here's the "issue" with all the other liquids commonly used to prep or chemically strip paint to remove any oils or other substances before applying any other coating and that is most of these other solvents are not good lubricants. So while they may clean the surface they may also introduce marring during the application and removal process.

I go over this in detail in this thread dated before Erasure and any product introduced after Erasure were introduced to the market. Point being what I wrote was accurate not only at the time I wrote it but even up to today.

Here's the article,

Hologram Free with a Rotary Buffer


Here's the pertinent part...


Now you can see some light marring, but that's because IPA isn't a very good lubricant, in fact it's a horrible lubricant. I think of all the people that have been told by others to wipe their car down with IPA before going to the next step and it's pretty easy to understand that when they did this they likely marred their car's paint and this is called working backwards. It's also likely that if the people taking this advice were working on light to medium colored cars they never saw the marring.

And while you might only see this on black or dark colored paints, if it's happening to the CLEAR layer on top of black and dark colored paints isn't it happening to all paints even if you cannot see it?

The DP Coating Prep Polish and the Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish offer more lubrication for the surface prepping polish than most other solvents.


As far as I know, the key thing with the application of ANY coating is that the surface needs to be free from any oils, waxes, fillers or silicones in order for the ingredients in ANY coating to properly bond to the paint.


In the context of car wax history, which I document and explain in my how-to book is only around 100 years old, coatings and how we prep paint for coatings is still new territory.

I'm sure there's more to learn moving into the future.

 

[statusdetailing]

Excellent response, and I can totally understand now, why somebody would chose the cleansing polish over IPA, for example.

Lubrication is something that I haven't seen brought up yet, but it's a big deal.

If you've spent all day or even multiple days, correcting a paint job to perfection, isn't it worth a few more dollars to use a product that will cleanse the paint with less chance of marring than IPA?

That's the first rock solid reason, I've heard, to use the BL cleansing polish.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

Excellent response, and I can totally understand now, why somebody would chose the cleansing polish over IPA, for example.

Lubrication is something that I haven't seen brought up yet, but it's a big deal.

Thank you. One of the things I'm always harping about in the detailing world is the idea of working forwards in the process not working backwards.

Polishing paint to perfection and then marring it at close to almost the end of the process is working backwards.


Note the time stamp for the info in the article where I pointed out the issue of lack of lubrication in most if not all the products available at the time to chemically strip paint...

11-30-2011, 04:50 PM


About two years ago. That would be right when coatings started to become popular in the cyber mainstream. So ahead of the curve. The tipping point has been reached as of today and now the trend is set.


I've posted this a bunch of times that MS or Mineral Spirits always feel better when wiping paint versus IPA or anything similar to IPA.

And again... I've never seen anyone point out that while marring can be seen on dark colored paints, (if you look for it), it can and most likely is taking place on light colored paints it's just a lot harder to see. Where were all the gurus on this point back before this article was written?

How to Mix IPA for Inspecting Correction Results


IF you read my article on how to mix IPA I state in it that I never even wanted to write this article but there were all these so called detailing gurus telling everyone to use IPA to chemically strip their paint with NO mention, ZERO mention of what strength to use or if the available strengths should be diluted. No information, nor recommendations at all. Zero. I guess the idea of working backwards never came to their minds?


:laughing:

 

[Centexhokie]

Serving three (3) distinct users

I appreciate that AG tries hard to serve 3 different users.

1. The average person who comes on the site looking for what they need to make their car look good without making it a hobby. As Mike said, they probably read the application instructions make a purchase and go work on the car never getting into the variations of the prep or wanting to make this a hobby.
2. The hobbyist, who is learning at a relatively slow pace since he/she is willing to spend some time on the site looking for better methods and processes. We learn from both the application instructions and others here who seem to be willing to help us amateurs and newbies to improve.
3. The professional who not only needs to be good at his/her craft, but do it in a commercially viable way. They not only share techniques, but application experiences that can save money for both other professionals and hobbyist alike.

It has to be tough to balance those users and make sure that each gets served as well as possible. Thanks for doing a good job of balance.


:dblthumb2:

 

[artofdetailing]

Mike,

As always, you have answered my question. It makes sense now that the product was developed to reduce the chance of marring during what we call "a wipedown" .

-Brian

 

[FUNX650]

Mike,

As always, you have answered my question. It makes sense now that the product was developed to reduce the chance of marring during what we call "a wipedown" .

-Brian

I wonder if this means that the DP-brand's Detailer's Coating Prep Polish can be used in its stead.



Bob

 

[wytstang]

I wonder if this means that the DP-brand's Detailer's Coating Prep Polish can be used in its stead.



Bob

Yes it can. Nick (or Mike don't remember) said in another thread DP prep polish is suitable for all coating.

 

[Mike PhillipsMike Phillips is verified member.]

I appreciate that AG tries hard to serve 3 different users.

1. The average person who comes on the site looking for what they need to make their car look good without making it a hobby. As Mike said, they probably read the application instructions make a purchase and go work on the car never getting into the variations of the prep or wanting to make this a hobby.
2. The hobbyist, who is learning at a relatively slow pace since he/she is willing to spend some time on the site looking for better methods and processes. We learn from both the application instructions and others here who seem to be willing to help us amateurs and newbies to improve.
3. The professional who not only needs to be good at his/her craft, but do it in a commercially viable way. They not only share techniques, but application experiences that can save money for both other professionals and hobbyist alike.

It has to be tough to balance those users and make sure that each gets served as well as possible. Thanks for doing a good job of balance.


:dblthumb2:

Try teaching a class for for all of the above plus guys that work in body shops, painters and painter's helpers... now that's a wide spectrum of people from all backgrounds and all experience levels.

Yes it can. Nick (or Mike don't remember) said in another thread DP prep polish is suitable for all coatings.

Pretty sure that was Nick, he has more of the inside scoop on these products.


I'm not sure how the formula for Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish is chemically different than Detailer's Coating Prep Polish but the Black Label Surface Cleansing Polish is stated to be suitable to clean more than just paint surfaces like glass, wheels and other hard surfaces.

I'm going to guess that when the word wheels was used on the label copy this would mean all wheels that have a hard surface which is all wheels. Chrome, painted, bare aluminum? Anodized?

So besides being a thick lotion type of product it states on the label it can be used on multiple hard surfaces. I don't think the Detailer's description states this feature.

 

[Centexhokie]

Try teaching a class for for all of the above plus guys that work in body shops, painters and painter's helpers... now that's a wide spectrum of people from all backgrounds and all experience levels.

At least they all learn at the same pace and they all start from the same knowledge base. It's got to make it easier.

Im the MAN

 

[mathomf]

The safest bet would be to go with what the product was designed to be used with. Just because you can use something and it is sort of the same does not mean that it is the best product for the job.

With newer technologies especially with high end products, manufacturers tend to design their product lines to be synergetic with each other. They put a lot of time and money in developing these products to work their best with their system.

Looking at the Pinnacle Black Label Collection I do not see any APC cleaner, tire cleaner, etc.. What does this tell me? Well it tells me that the manufacturer and designers of the product felt that there is really good products out there that covers them areas very well at the moment and anything they would put out would be overkill.

You just spent a good chunk of money on a high end product why would you want to take the cheap way out? Why would you want to risk product failure, especially if it is on a customers vehicle(s), because you decided not to follow the manufacturers instructions? If your customers have agreed to have you use high end products on their vehicle(s) why would you want to take a risk of product failure because you decided to use another brand in the manufacturers system? If you can answer these questions without the answer being because it is cheaper then go for it.

So if I was to use a different surface or paint cleanser I would definately not use it on a customers vehicle until I took the time to experiment with it on my own vehicles.