Pad vs. Product

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txdox21

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Which has more effect on the cut/abrasion of the clear coat, the product or the pad?

I have a 2010 Chevy Silverado, and I am new to machine polishing an recently bought a PC. The truck has light swirls, at least I think they are light, but after the results below I am not too sure anymore.

I did a test spot with Megs. Ultimate Polish on a white LC pad and did not get quite the results that I was looking for. I then tried and used the Ult. Polish with an orange pad and got better results, but not perfect. I would guess that the next step would be to use Ultimate Compound with a white pad.

Do you think the orange pad has too much cut for the Ult. Polish? What can happen if you use too much pad for the a product?
 
Are you using lake country pads? If so, you have the pad and product mixed up. Compound with orange, ultimate polish with white.
 
bl3ujay07 said:
Are you using lake country pads? If so, you have the pad and product mixed up. Compound with orange, ultimate polish with white.
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Yes I was using Lake Country pads. I know typically orange is for compound, but I figured the orange would give the Ult. Polish a little more "bite", and figure a white pad with Ult. Compound would not have as much abrasion.
 
I don't know which is "more important". I think its all about the combination. If pads were more important I figure we would have a lot of different pads and only one kind of polish. Of if polisher were more important we would only have one pad and a lot of different kind of polishes. Its about how we can vary the cut of the polish or pad by changing each.
 
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but there doesn't seem to be an answer here. I have the exact same question as the op. In trying to find the "least aggressive" method, would the up with an orange or even yellow cs pad, still be less aggressive than up with a white pad? I tried the same steps as the op, but being a noob, couldn't quite tell. When would the cutting ability of the two products be equal (if ever) based on the variance of the pad being used? Is there a rough equation to use for the number of aggressiveness of pad and product combined, to reach a final number on a scale /chart?
 
Well it's pretty straight forward a more agressive pad gives you more cut with the same polish whether it be a compound or polish, hence it won't finish out as well typically.

Now personally I think the heavier abrasives in a compound are a more dramatic step than changing the pad unless your going to wool or similar.
 
Without doubt the product (polish) has a much bigger bearing on the outcome than the pad.

Obviously you can 'tweak' the cut and finish of the polish by changing the pad though.

If you had to do a search on Autopia for 'Menzerna Polish & Lake Country Pad Reference Guide NEW! ' you would locate a wonderful set of charts Todd Helme developed. Whilst these are specific to Menzerna polishes and Lake Country Pads, the principle applies to all pads and polishes.
 
sircharlespiko said:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but there doesn't seem to be an answer here. I have the exact same question as the op. In trying to find the "least aggressive" method, would the up with an orange or even yellow cs pad, still be less aggressive than up with a white pad? I tried the same steps as the op, but being a noob, couldn't quite tell. When would the cutting ability of the two products be equal (if ever) based on the variance of the pad being used? Is there a rough equation to use for the number of aggressiveness of pad and product combined, to reach a final number on a scale /chart?
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Meguiar's created their So1o system based on one polish / 4 pads

They were able to achieve different levels of cut just by changing pads.

In specific regard to Ultimate Polish, an orange pad works great together. What's going on with the orange ccs, is that it's an open celled, 70 ppi pad that has a good amount of density. The open cells give you more cut, where the white is a blended prepolymer at 75 ppi. Typically, the prepolymer pads rely more on their density to work polishes into the paint. Also, the higher pore count of the white, combined with the blended foam, gives to orange pad the edge, despite the similar firmness of the two pads.

Ultimate Polish and a yellow rupes microfiber disc was way more potent than I ever would have believed.

Ultimate Polish on a blue ccs gives incredible gloss.
 
This is one of those hypothetical questions that's tough to answer without hard details.

The answer is which product factor the most or least cut, the pad or the product depends on the pad and the product.

Use an aggressive compound with a soft foam finishing pad and you'll get cut but it will be from the product.

Use a ultra fine finishing polish with a wool pad on a rotary buffer and you'll get cut but it will be from the fibers of the wool pad with the ultra fine finishing polish primarily providing lubrication.

I love hypotheticals but where the rubber hits the road is when we talk about what's actually in the garage as far as pads, products and tools.


:props:
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This is one of those hypothetical questions that's tough to answer without hard details.

The answer is which product factor the most or least cut, the pad or the product depends on the pad and the product.

Use an aggressive compound with a soft foam finishing pad and you'll get cut but it will be from the product.

Use a ultra fine finishing polish with a wool pad on a rotary buffer and you'll get cut but it will be from the fibers of the wool pad with the ultra fine finishing polish primarily providing lubrication.

I love hypotheticals but where the rubber hits the road is when we talk about what's actually in the garage as far as pads, products and tools.


:props:
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This is something I've thought a great deal about. Let me ask this Mike. If I start with a polish (e.g. Menz 4000) and a HT Crimison pad and that doesn't work to remove the imperfections, which do I increase first - the pad or the polish? (tangerine pad or Menz 2500). Or perhaps this is the question, which way preserves more clearcoat? More aggressive pad & less aggressive product or the reverse combination. Thanks.
 
Mike.Phillips@Autogeek said:
This is one of those hypothetical questions that's tough to answer without hard details.

The answer is which product factor the most or least cut, the pad or the product depends on the pad and the product.

Use an aggressive compound with a soft foam finishing pad and you'll get cut but it will be from the product.

Use a ultra fine finishing polish with a wool pad on a rotary buffer and you'll get cut but it will be from the fibers of the wool pad with the ultra fine finishing polish primarily providing lubrication.

I love hypotheticals but where the rubber hits the road is when we talk about what's actually in the garage as far as pads, products and tools.


rops:
Click to expand...
Thanks for all the responses. Mike, like the above, I am specifically trying to understand how I should incrementally "step up" aggressiveness when doing a test spot using the two products I have .

Am I correct with moving to more aggressive pads with the up (white/orange/yellow) and then to uc if the pads aren't enough? Or should I be going to the uc, after the orange pad, but before the yellow for example ? I understand that its hard to say theoretically, but I figure with all your experience, you'd have enough "real world" usage of those common products to be able to make a pretty good recommendation. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond
 
In theory, stepping up in pad aggressiveness would likely give you the next step in a "least aggressive first" situation. However, in a real world or "practical" application, I'd sooner step up the abrasiveness of product and decrease the aggressiveness of the pad as the next step. Often times doing this, you'll see your defects disappear while having minimal pad marring against the paint. This is more times than not, the magic bullet in my experience.

When working on super hard paints like on Audis or some newer GM paints, I see very little benefit to stepping up in foam pad aggressiveness. Now stepping up to a wool pad is different but as far as aggressive foam goes, I rarely see any pad marring on these super hard paints, which suggests that switching to these more aggressive foam pads is negligible at best.
 
tuscarora dave said:
In theory, stepping up in pad aggressiveness would likely give you the next step in a "least aggressive first" situation. However, in a real world or "practical" application, I'd sooner step up the abrasiveness of product and decrease the aggressiveness of the pad as the next step. Often times doing this, you'll see your defects disappear while having minimal pad marring against the paint. This is more times than not, the magic bullet in my experience.

When working on super hard paints like on Audis or some newer GM paints, I see very little benefit to stepping up in foam pad aggressiveness. Now stepping up to a wool pad is different but as far as aggressive foam goes, I rarely see any pad marring on these super hard paints, which suggests that switching to these more aggressive foam pads is negligible at best.
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First, I love your posts!

Second, I've had different experiences.

While polishing my mf's gmc canyon, I started my test spot with a medium/light polish, and a white ccs pad. This combination and I wern't able to remove the defects in a sufficient amount of time. By switching to the orange ccs, all swirls were effectively removed to my satisfaction, with no discernable adverse pad issues.

I've had similar findings with products like SwirlX and Ultimate Polish.

This has all been part of my search for a suitable "one step" approach for my little "travel" buffing kit.

So far I like the pink and orange ccs, or orange hex logic with those products.

I'll be trying the Lake Country Ultra Fiber next.
 
I love the LC UltraFiber pads. There are so many different variables in this paint polishing game that a direction change in the wind might produce a different result in the end results. Just kidding of course.

I weigh around 300 pounds the next guy weighs 175, what both of us view as light pressure could very well be different and by a margin.

The Test Spot is the only real absolute in this game.
 
tuscarora dave said:
I love the LC UltraFiber pads. There are so many different variables in this paint polishing game that a direction change in the wind might produce a different result in the end results. Just kidding of course.

I weigh around 300 pounds the next guy weighs 175, what both of us view as light pressure could very well be different and by a margin.

The Test Spot is the only real absolute in this game.
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I hear ya on that, and agree 100%.

I'm the 175lb guy as well!

Yeah, maybe in a week or so I'll order a few of those ultra fiber pads. I normally use the rupes mf, but I'll like to try others.
 
sircharlespiko said:
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but there doesn't seem to be an answer here. I have the exact same question as the op. In trying to find the "least aggressive" method, would the up with an orange or even yellow cs pad, still be less aggressive than up with a white pad? I tried the same steps as the op, but being a noob, couldn't quite tell. When would the cutting ability of the two products be equal (if ever) based on the variance of the pad being used? Is there a rough equation to use for the number of aggressiveness of pad and product combined, to reach a final number on a scale /chart?
Click to expand...

Larry Kosilla from AMMO NYC and Drive/Clean explains it better than I so I'll just leave this here:

http://youtu.be/rYed_Hnrql4
 
I've used UltraFiber on Rupes polishers a number of times now. I like the combo. I don't own a Rupes and don't do enough detailing / paint correcting anymore to warrant the purchase of another polisher, but I sure do like all the Rupes machines I've worked with, which are the 15, the 21, the mini and the LHR75 pneumatic polisher.

If I were to make a purchase on a new polisher right now it would be the newest Flex mini rotary polisher.

I just bought this for the shop last week so I'm done spending for a little while.
 
I would say go right to the Ultimate Compound with the Orange pad in order to get good defect removal. UC is not a super agressive compound but can get the job done. Follow that with the Ultimate Polish and the white polishing pad. And the of course a wax or sealant of your choice!
 
I usually end up trying a combination that I think will finish very well and MIGHT get out ENOUGH of the defects

For me this has usually been White CCS and WG Total Swirl Remover

If that does not cut hard enough, I go to Orange CCS with WGTSR....hoping that I can achieve great results without compounding

If that does not get it done, I usually jump to M100 and Lake Country Thin Purple Foamed Wool. As long as this more aggressive combo is not leaving marring that would require two additional steps to finish down...I go with it

If I am compounding...I am compounding. I would rather do 4 passes with PFW than 6-8 with Orange CCS

In my opinion, whether you use a white CCS & Polish on a DA or Wool & Compound on a Rotary...if you removed the same defect; you removed the same amount of clear coat


If you watch Kevin Brown or some of the other really talented polishers, they are using a targeted strategy to remove deeper defects as opposed to making a high number of passes on the entire section. I believe this preserves CC in areas with less severe defects, expedites the process and looks really cool too. This strategy is impossible without very good lighting

I don't look as cool as KB while doing it, but I have found that after 4 passes of compounding, I can grab my PC with the 3" Megs DAMF discs/D300 and sniper any remaining RIDS, as opposed to doing 4 more passes over the entire area. Works for me
 
sircharlespiko said:
Thanks for all the responses. Mike, like the above, I am specifically trying to understand how I should incrementally "step up" aggressiveness when doing a test spot using the two products I have .

Am I correct with moving to more aggressive pads with the up (white/orange/yellow) and then to uc if the pads aren't enough? Or should I be going to the uc, after the orange pad, but before the yellow for example ? I understand that its hard to say theoretically, but I figure with all your experience, you'd have enough "real world" usage of those common products to be able to make a pretty good recommendation. Thanks for taking the time to read and respond
Click to expand...


What are you working on?

What type of detailing do you normally do?


:dunno:
 
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