pH of Some Common Products Unveiled

Can you test diablo wheel cleaner diluted and undiluted if you have it?
 
java said:
Can you test diablo wheel cleaner diluted and undiluted if you have it?
Click to expand...

Use the calculator linked previously in the thread to determine the pH at any dilution you want
 
Change of pH on dilution needs to be treated with care - in theory it can be calculated but in practice it may not work that way. There is a concept known as 'buffering' which will stop the pH of a product from changing the way one would expect from a simple consideration.
 
pH is such a strange measure:

2 is more acidic than 4

8 is ten times more acidic than 7

7 is "neutral", but is actually the presence of alkalinity and acidity in balance


I learned a lot from the Youtube video by Jason Rose of Meguiar's on their new Tannin and Protein Cleaners. It is well worth the time

The most interesting thing from.the video was an explanation of re-soiling caused by using APC as carpet cleaner without a neutralization step

Apparently, the APC residue that is left in the carpet is reactivates when it gets wet and looks for something to clean. The example used is someone getting into the car with wet, dirty shoes...APC reactivates and cleans the shoes, leaving the dirt on the carpet

Makes sense
 
allenk4 said:
The most interesting thing from.the video was an explanation of re-soiling caused by using APC as carpet cleaner without a neutralization step

Apparently, the APC residue that is left in the carpet is reactivates when it gets wet and looks for something to clean. The example used is someone getting into the car with wet, dirty shoes...APC reactivates and cleans the shoes, leaving the dirt on the carpet
Click to expand...

Residues residues... something that is well known but really has been ignored or unknown to the detailing scene. It isn't necessarily the alkalinity why causes problems, it is often the surfactants which are, quite literally, sticky. This is really well known to the likes of carpet cleaners but detailers generally won't listen and we end up with fabrics which look great but soil at a massively accelerated rate because people insist on using APC, rather than a dedicated product.
 
allenk4 said:
Apparently, the APC residue that is left in the carpet is reactivates when it gets wet and looks for something to clean. The example used is someone getting into the car with wet, dirty shoes...APC reactivates and cleans the shoes, leaving the dirt on the carpet

Makes sense
Click to expand...

whenever or whatever type of cleaning on fabrics, you got to extract/vacuum and neutralize someway or you are not getting the fabric as clean as possible. rapid resoiling will happen for this very reason. but the residue tends to hide the dirt, then as the product/residue wears off, the fabric will show its true colors. the soil left behind, and the accumulation since the attempt.
 
The Meguiar's video also adds that flushing/rinsing with water, does NOT neutralize APC
 
PiPUK said:
Residues residues... something that is well known but really has been ignored or unknown to the detailing scene. It isn't necessarily the alkalinity why causes problems, it is often the surfactants which are, quite literally, sticky. This is really well known to the likes of carpet cleaners but detailers generally won't listen and we end up with fabrics which look great but soil at a massively accelerated rate because people insist on using APC, rather than a dedicated product.
Click to expand...

I agree. a hot water extractor is a big investment, but well worth it if doing interiors. carpets and upholstery. but then again, I work for a carpet cleaner. so I guess I may be spoiled a bit with their truck mounted equipment.
 
allenk4 said:
pH is such a strange measure:

2 is more acidic than 4

8 is ten times more acidic than 7

7 is "neutral", but is actually the presence of alkalinity and acidity in balance


I learned a lot from the Youtube video by Jason Rose of Meguiar's on their new Tannin and Protein Cleaners. It is well worth the time

The most interesting thing from.the video was an explanation of re-soiling caused by using APC as carpet cleaner without a neutralization step

Apparently, the APC residue that is left in the carpet is reactivates when it gets wet and looks for something to clean. The example used is someone getting into the car with wet, dirty shoes...APC reactivates and cleans the shoes, leaving the dirt on the carpet

Makes sense
Click to expand...

Backwards?...("big numbers">more alkaline.)

Bill
 
Where is the test of Dawn that miracle fluid that will strip anything?
 
PiPUK said:
Change of pH on dilution needs to be treated with care - in theory it can be calculated but in practice it may not work that way. There is a concept known as 'buffering' which will stop the pH of a product from changing the way one would expect from a simple consideration.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I contacted Bilt Hamber about the pH of Autofoam neat. I was told it's 12, but is buffered. They also made it clear it's non caustic. Since it's buffered, will the pH never change by diluting it with water?
 
No, it means the pH will change by less than 1 when diluted by a factor of 10. The buffering stabilises the pH somewhat but it will still change.


allenk4 said:
pH is such a strange measure:

8 is ten times more acidic than 7

7 is "neutral", but is actually the presence of alkalinity and acidity in balance
Click to expand...

The acidity/alkaline flip has already been discussed but the 8 vs 7 thing is fundamentally incorrect. A neutral (pH 7) solution is neither acidic nor alkaline so a pH 8 solution is not 10 times more alkaline than a pH 7 one. What it does signify is that there are 10 times less H3O+ ions per unit volume in a pH 8 solution than a pH 7 one (where the H3O+ ions are in equal concentration to the OH- ions)

This is a great thread, BTW :)
 
kaanage said:
No, it means the pH will change by less than 1 when diluted by a factor of 10. The buffering stabilises the pH somewhat but it will still change.




The acidity/alkaline flip has already been discussed but the 8 vs 7 thing is fundamentally incorrect. A neutral (pH 7) solution is neither acidic nor alkaline so a pH 8 solution is not 10 times more alkaline than a pH 7 one. What it does signify is that there are 10 times less H3O+ ions per unit volume in a pH 8 solution than a pH 7 one (where the H3O+ ions are in equal concentration to the OH- ions)

This is a great thread, BTW :)
Click to expand...

You re-confused me

How are the two different?
 
A ph 7 solution is not alkaline => it has an alkalinity of zero

10 times zero is zero so a pH 8 solution is not ten times as alkaline as a pH7 solution
 
kaanage said:
A ph 7 solution is not alkaline => it has an alkalinity of zero

10 times zero is zero so a pH 8 solution is not ten times as alkaline as a pH7 solution
Click to expand...

If that holds for the move from 7 to 8, what about from 7 to 10?

100 times zero is still zero

I thought I understood until now and the addition of the "buffering" variable is a bonus
 
allenk4 said:
If that holds for the move from 7 to 8, what about from 7 to 10?

100 times zero is still zero

I thought I understood until now and the addition of the "buffering" variable is a bonus
Click to expand...

Kanaage clearly has a chemistry background; is it possible he knows more about this topic than you do?

To quote Dirty Harry "a man's got to know his limitations"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top