Please help before I lose my mind! Holograms!!

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ssmith96

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Hey Everyone,

I started my 2007 328xi Jet Black (I know) paint correction. At first glance results seemed great but then I noticed holograms.

I washed, clayed the area I was testing on (driver door)

Hit it with m105 orange pad then m205 black pad. Didn't look good, I thought it was because I use a MF bonnet to buff off m205. So I hit it once more with 205 and thought it was good but I still got holograms! Their driving me nuts.

Hard to get a picture of but when this was in the right light i saw maybe 5-7 of these as I moved my eyes along the panel (see the lighter spots)

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What can I do about this? Please help! -Scott
 
Switch to a different finishing polish. M205 doesn't do well on soft paint.
 
A couple of things:

1. People here recommend M105 & 205 like its a miracle product. Well, you can see its not. I would have used a diminishing abrasive product like the Wolfgang on Menzerna line on paint like what you are working on. I am assuming you are using a DA polisher? You can "finish" perfect on that type of paint with the products you have, but it may not be easy. You need a fine finishing polish and a finessing pad. If you only have the products mentioned, I would try slower arm speed, slower machine speed, medium pressure, less passes (2 or 3) with M205 and the softest foam pad you have. I use Wolfgang polishes and LC pads on my black BMW (BSM) and it finishes LSP ready with TSR. Those polishes are excellent and simple to use. They also wipe right off and make little if any dust. But for some reason, people love M105 & 205. Maybe the defects were so bad you needed a heavy compound like 105 to remover them, but on a "softer" paint like that, a fine finishing polish may be needed after 205 unless your very experienced with that polish.

2. You should not (have to) buff polish off with a MF bonnet. If its that hard to get off, something is wrong - too little/much polish or worked time of product. You want to remove polish on a car like that with a very good MF towel, a product like Eraser can help, or even a waterless wash - but it shouldn't be required.
 
swanicyouth said:
A couple of things:

1. People here recommend M105 & 205 like its a miracle product. Well, you can see its not. I would have used a diminishing abrasive product like the Wolfgang on Menzerna line on paint like what you are working on. I am assuming you are using a DA polisher? You can "finish" perfect on that type of paint with the products you have, but it may not be easy. You need a fine finishing polish and a finessing pad. If you only have the products mentioned, I would try slower arm speed, slower machine speed, medium pressure, less passes (2 or 3) with M205 and the softest foam pad you have. I use Wolfgang polishes and LC pads on my black BMW (BSM) and it finishes LSP ready with TSR. Those polishes are excellent and simple to use. They also wipe right off and make little if any dust. But for some reason, people love M105 & 205. Maybe the defects were so bad you needed a heavy compound like 105 to remover them, but on a "softer" paint like that, a fine finishing polish may be needed after 205 unless your very experienced with that polish.

2. You should not (have to) buff polish off with a MF bonnet. If its that hard to get off, something is wrong - too little/much polish or worked time of product. You want to remove polish on a car like that with a very good MF towel, a product like Eraser can help, or even a waterless wash - but it shouldn't be required.
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Thanks for the advice, Which wolfgang polish with what color pad works best for you?

Thanks
 
For polishing (removing defects) TSR on an orange CCS pad, for finishing Finishing Glaze on a white pad. That all you need to get a top notch finish. If you want to go all out, follow that with Menzerna SF 4500 on a grey LC CCS pad.
 
swanicyouth said:
For polishing (removing defects) TSR on an orange CCS pad, for finishing Finishing Glaze on a white pad. That all you need to get a top notch finish. If you want to go all out, follow that with Menzerna SF 4500 on a grey LC CCS pad.
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But what if I don't want the filling effects of glaze? Or is that also a polish. I've seen the terms used to interchangeably.
 
Historically, the term glaze is used to describe a bodyshop safe, hand-applied liquid used to fill-in and mask fine swirls while creating a deep, wet shine on fresh paint. It's a category of products used on fresh paint in body shop environments, which will not seal the paint surface by depositing a long lasting sacrificial barrier coating using some type of protection ingredients.

A bodyshop safe glaze is used in place of a wax, sealant or coating because it won't interfere with the normal out-gassing process of fresh paint for the first 30 days of curing. The function of a bodyshop glaze is to hide rotary buffer swirls while giving the paint a uniform, just waxed appearance to ensure customer satisfaction. After 30 days cure time its normal to the seal the paint using a wax, paint sealant or coating.
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Hiding Swirls
There's a number of reasons why historically body shops use a glaze on fresh paint to hide swirls. Most body shops are production oriented and perform a limited number of machine buffing steps due to time restrictions and profitability. This would include machine compounding with a wool pad and machine polishing with either a wool finishing pad or a foam polishing or finishing pad, both steps using rotary buffers.

The end results are normally excellent shine but with rotary buffer swirls in the paint, (also called holograms and/or rotary buffer trails), that can be seen in bright light. The glaze is normally hand-applied to fill-in and hide the swirls as hand application is fast and relatively effective as long as the swirls are shallow. This glazing procedure produces a finish that customers will accept at the time of vehicle pick-up. The results are somewhat misleading however because bodyshop glazes are water soluble and as such will wash off after a few car washes or repeated exposure to rainy weather and then the swirls will become visible. This is the standard and accepted practice in the body shop industry.


Note: Because there are no rules or regulations governing the definition or the use of the word glaze, manufactures and sellers of paint care products use the word glaze as a name for all types of products that are not true glazes in the historical sense of the word. Most common is the use of the word glaze in the name of a car wax or paint sealant.
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That's the definition of a glaze / pure polish
 
Evan.J said:
That's the definition of a glaze / pure polish
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Thanks for the explanation Evan.

So does this mean I can't truly "correct my paint" to the point where it only needs that once a year correction for swirls and scratches? I was hoping to compound and polish to a point where my swirls were mostly gone. But now my understanding is that this glaze will wash away after about 2 months? am I correct or still way off?
 
If I were you I would use a white lake country pad with Menzerna SF4500. It works great on soft paint.
 
Zapa said:
If I were you I would use a white lake country pad with Menzerna SF4500. It works great on soft paint.
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And that should take care of it? I just want to be sure before I pay 50 bucks for one bottle of product, but I have no problem paying up if it really works.
 
SF4500 has less cut than SF4000. I wouldn't say one is superior to the other. They're both finishing polishes.
 
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is not a glaze in the traditional sense. It contains no fillers, just a misleading name.
 
ssmith96 said:
But what if I don't want the filling effects of glaze? Or is that also a polish. I've seen the terms used to interchangeably.
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Its actually not a "glaze", but a polish. Some say its identical to SF 4000. If its not the same, its quite similar and its made by Menzerna.

IME SF 4500 will not remove any defects on BMW paint. Although, I've only used it with a grey pad, not a white one. What it does do is amp up the gloss and smoothness of the finish.

If you ordered SF 4500 and not WG FG it should still work fine on a white pad, as holograms are very very shallow.
 
ssmith96 said:
And that should take care of it? I just want to be sure before I pay 50 bucks for one bottle of product, but I have no problem paying up if it really works.
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You can really go with either one. They are similar. The 4000 will have just a little more of a cut than the 4500.

You paint can be polished to remove most of the swirls it's just working with soft paint that can be tricky. Usually what I have seen is that softer paints do not like m205. So going with a fine finishing polish like the 4000 or 4500 and a finishing pads tends to work great for those soft paints.

I think the 4000 should do the trick for you and it was a great recommendation from Zapa.

ihaveacamaro said:
Wolfgang Finishing Glaze is not a glaze in the traditional sense. It contains no fillers, just a misleading name.
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Well definitely forgot about that on Roshan. Thanks for that. :iagree:
 
ssmith96 said:
And that should take care of it? I just want to be sure before I pay 50 bucks for one bottle of product, but I have no problem paying up if it really works.
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Yes that will take care of it. It is my go to finishing polish. I like it more than the FF3000 I have sitting there.

Evan knows what hes talking about also.
 
you could probably find someone that is tradeing menz on the forums also.probably people have 4500 lookin for 205.
 
ssmith96 said:
And that should take care of it? I just want to be sure before I pay 50 bucks for one bottle of product, but I have no problem paying up if it really works.
Click to expand...

SF4000 is my fine polish of choice. It works great with a finishing pad. I done a few JB BMWs as well as having one in my garage. JB BMW is not a color but a freaking full time job. It is the most frustrating paint system on a car that I ever have the pleasure of owning.
 
Ah the DA holograms strike again....I have the same issue going on my car. I've tried every combination of pad and polish I have, ranging from a super fine polish and a gold CCS pad, to white pad with WGTSR. Nothing makes it go away. A white pad with Meg's UC finished down better (loosely termed) than a black pad with a fine polish. It's so strange. My technique is ideal, towels plush and clean, pads clean, work area clean, and they're still here lol never ending holograms. Although they are not noticeable up close, a good eye will spot them from a distance :/

Good luck fixing your holograms :/ hopefully you won't have as much trouble
 
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